Terry Carter Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Can I nominate this sorry example which can be found on auction sites and described as a 1st B'ham Cap badge as the Worst Cap badge ever produced. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Gordon Bennett! You might just be right! (Phew, thanks for saving me before I put a bid in!) (By the way, thanks also for your Birmingham pals book; I know it's been out for years, but hey, I only just got mine!). Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 27 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Terry, Welcome to this thread. Yes a horrible example of a Bham Pals badge. Would be good if someone had images of the other fake Bham badges out there also. I dont have any to share. Thanks Stephen for your comments. It is what I hoped this thread would be. There has been enough sniping of late on the Forum. Regards TT Now back to badges....I still have some gems to share........watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 OK TT, you asked for them. Fakes in all their (in)glory... Hopefully the pics will come out in the right order. Here's two of the standard type, thin body, no hair effect, lack of three jewels in the coronet, no goatee....and the dreaded 'Gaunt' stamp; plus, and this had me fooled (see old thread), a more inventive manufacture with a two-part scroll. This has been comprehensively ruled out by everyone (but I've kept it for sentimental reasons). Caveat emptor... Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Can I nominate this sorry example which can be found on auction sites and described as a 1st B'ham Cap badge as the Worst Cap badge ever produced. Terry I think it's a borderline case - I'd elect those ruddy awful fakes of the B'ham Pals you see on a certain auction site on a monotonous basis now; right shape, generally, but too big, the lettering all wrong etc. etc. Sick of the sight of them, so I vote for those. EDIT: Well, Peter beat me to it - with excellent illustrations. Those 70s-vintage brazed on lower scroll ones actually look quite artful and almost acceptable from the front, at least compared with what followed! (The shoulder titles are next, I tell you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 27 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Thanks Peter, Really important to put fakes / copies on this thread as well as genuine. Lets people know and adds to data base. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Thanks Peter, Really important to put fakes / copies on this thread as well as genuine. Lets people know and adds to data base. TT I agree, old chap. I've got a few more up my sleeve (fakes and genuine), so will hold fire until I see what's next in the firing line! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Hello Julian, I've added that you have confirmed use of the Starr mark on a duff badge to my post. I did write you a return message, but now can find no sign of it as being sent, so I stuffed up somehow. Cheers, Paul. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has a no 'F' Starr marked slider. not come across it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Good 2nd Bn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7t2ndswinger Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 OK TT, you asked for them. Fakes in all their (in)glory... Hopefully the pics will come out in the right order. Here's two of the standard type, thin body, no hair effect, lack of three jewels in the coronet, no goatee....and the dreaded 'Gaunt' stamp; plus, and this had me fooled (see old thread), a more inventive manufacture with a two-part scroll. This has been comprehensively ruled out by everyone (but I've kept it for sentimental reasons). Caveat emptor... Cheers Peter I had all three once! What gets me about this badge (or all three) is that they'd actually gone to the trouble of producing a complete new die for the antelope with an integral lower scroll. By this I mean the brass Warwickshire part is an overlay rather than a tag. They do say that the earliest restruck badges would fool no-one and I often wonder if this is one of those obvious details that have been forgotten in the mists of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Hello Julian, I've added that you have confirmed use of the Starr mark on a duff badge to my post. I did write you a return message, but now can find no sign of it as being sent, so I stuffed up somehow. Cheers, Paul. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has a no 'F' Starr marked slider. not come across it before. Here's another duff Jewish battalions badge, no Starr mark, though... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 By this I mean the brass Warwickshire part is an overlay rather than a tag. They do say that the earliest restruck badges would fool no-one and I often wonder if this is one of those obvious details that have been forgotten in the mists of time? I must admit, that the scrolls look decent from the front, and they certainly had me fooled (until I knew better), as they looked nicely aged. Which is understandable, I guess if they are 70's ones. The others (my top illustrations) are so common that they shouldn't fool anyone but the absolute beginner, but they have been 'aged' in order to do just that. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 27 January , 2009 Share Posted 27 January , 2009 Do you think you could post the pictures of your 2 Jewish badges together Pete? Your welcome to copy mine as well. See if there are any points to note. Cheers, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 Will do mate, work is in the way right now! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 So, Paul, in response to your request, here are the two Jewish battalion badges together. Supposed genuine one on the left, fake on the right. I notice that the base of the 'candle stick' is shorter on the 'real' example. Can post the rear views if necessary. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 My one seems to fall between the two in looks. Well, we like your slider, the Jewish Letters (sorry if wrong term) are flat on the two we think to be copies, the 'waist' on the possibly good badge is smooth at the top, not ribbed, and on the center stick, the flames look like little budds opening.. Thats my start. Anything huge that I am missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonz Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 Of the 3 shown, more differences........ the last one has a more 'building block' look to the plinth the STARR one has a weak central ball above the slider joint last 2...as with a lot of repros, they do'nt get the stippling on the backgrounds right..very rough & uneven all 3 have the sliders attached at different places Cheers ! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 And having looked at the image of the (presumably) genuine (but sold) example on Bosley's 'Buywyse' site, this example agrees with my 'genuine' example in having: Short candle stick base Smooth top to the base Similar 'block' stye above the letters Similar stipple Same join point of slider... Phew! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 29 January , 2009 Share Posted 29 January , 2009 Not listed as sold. Price £150. Think I would be more confident now to pick a 'good un'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 29 January , 2009 Share Posted 29 January , 2009 You're quite right! Hopefully, that's what this thread sets out to achieve. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 30 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2009 A new item...marked Reid. Not a cap badge but pal related. 100% genuine and brooched. I like brooched items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 30 January , 2009 Share Posted 30 January , 2009 Nice example; here's mine, with lugs and the Reid name. According to the BMBF, these badges are authentic if they are of a standard size, have the lugs in the position indicated, and bear the Reid name. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 30 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2009 Peter, Your example looks as if the crown has been repaired / replaced at some time. This was a common weakspot with this badge. I have a non Reid example that has a reinforced join where the cromn meets the harp. There was some debate on the British Military Badge Forum re non maker marked examples. I will post a picture later and see what you think. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 30 January , 2009 Share Posted 30 January , 2009 I think you are right TT, needless to say I'm happy that it is a genuine one, but the crown does appear to have had some work on it. Both our examples have 'lived', I think! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 30 January , 2009 Share Posted 30 January , 2009 You are right TT, the badge of the Connaught Rangers - on which the Tyneside Irish one is based - was given a looped strengthener behind the crown before the war. It is recorded in the RACD ledgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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