SteveE Posted 30 January , 2009 Share Posted 30 January , 2009 Julian Do you happen to know if the RACD ledgers refer to any of the other badges mentioned in the thread so far, I'm thinking particularly of the Frontiersmen badge(s). Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 31 January , 2009 Share Posted 31 January , 2009 Steve, the only 'Pals' cap badge sealed / authorised by the RACD was the Liverpool Pals, interestingly twice. First with loops then, in summer 1917 with a slider. The rest of the pals cap badges must have been private orders (I don't know why / how the Lpl were singled out, may be because the Min of War was Ld Drerby !!). However, I believe that the RACD authorised some titles but I have'nt dealt with these. The only other "locally raised units" of the 1st WW to have cap badges sealed by the RACD were, yes, the 25th 'Frontiersmen' Bn and the 38-40 & 42nd Jewish Bns. Apart from the fact that the 25th was 'blackened GM' I'm afraid I don't have any other details to hand. By details the ledgers would give metal and fixings, there would not be any illustration or anything. Hope this helps. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 31 January , 2009 Share Posted 31 January , 2009 Julian Very interesting, please forgive me but I've never paid much attention to badge materials, can you tell me how 'blackened gm' compares to the two badges in posts #61/62 and #64/65? As for the RACD ledgers, I assume they're held at NA, Kew? Do you have any ideas what the references may be? Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 1 February , 2009 Share Posted 1 February , 2009 My ignorance of London Regt badges will be in evidence here, but I got the impression tha these "original" Frontiersmen badges were "home made" and thus do not have any blackening. The obverse of a badge is only one part of its story to me; design - and variations on the "pattern", construction, fixing, finish etc are all important elements. Divergence between what the WO / RACD authorised and what was worn is sometimes quite marked - especially during wartime. The volume you need covers the years 1915-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 1 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2009 Hi, Here are the images of the non Reid marked badge. My mind is open re this example. The Tyneside Irish experts state that Reid ones are the only right ones, however if this is a copy someone has gone to alot of trouble for what is little reward (for what I paid anyhow!). It has a reinforcing copper wire / loop at the joint of crown and harp and is well struck. Certainly not as sharp and crisp as the Reid examples. Your views and opinions welocome. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 1 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2009 Peter, Compare this ST to yours including blemishes and imperfectione etc. Do you agree, same batch? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 1 February , 2009 Share Posted 1 February , 2009 Your Salford badge looks pretty close to mine, for sure. As for the Tyneside Irish badge, i'd be interested to hear what others might think. The BMBF people reckon it's only east-west lugs that count, but who knows? Does look a little too clean to me, but I've been wrong before... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 1 February , 2009 Share Posted 1 February , 2009 The volume you need covers the years 1915-21. Julian Thanks for your help, I'll see if I can get the volume to have a look at when I get to Kew next. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 1 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2009 Peter Re the Irish badge....agreed. But it seems alot of effort to fake. Paid £10 for it or thereabouts. If a fake why the re inforcing loop? Also the brightness and cleanliness is a failing of the photo. Took on a south facing window in winter ( low) sun light with over head lamp on...no wonder. Needless to say it is in my doubtful box pending the expert!!! Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 1 February , 2009 Share Posted 1 February , 2009 I know exactly what you mean, I was convinced that my 2nd Birmingham City Bn badge (illustrated above) was genuine for the same reasons, It has a great patina, it looked good, and it seemed to be a hell of a lot of effort to go to just to fake it. But everyone thinks otherwise, so there we are. I'm interested to hear other views on your badge too. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 4 February , 2009 Share Posted 4 February , 2009 Here's another post on behalf of 7t2ndswinger (Keith). A nice pair, one might say (23rd RF, 1st Sportsmans)... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 6 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2009 Nothing wrong with them. Have you an example of the other pattern? Will post an image of one soon. TT PS nice photography on the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 6 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2009 And I am sure this will provoke discussion. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7t2ndswinger Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 PS nice photography on the last. Easily done. It's a scan with the lid up, turn off all room lights first and hey presto nice black background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 8 February , 2009 Share Posted 8 February , 2009 Nothing wrong with them. Have you an example of the other pattern? Here goes....(picture below) Peter And I am sure this will provoke discussion. TT Indeed - I've got a 14th RIR, but am not sure about it. Also have a 'brass' version...Any advice on what to look for? Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 17 February , 2009 Share Posted 17 February , 2009 And I am sure this will provoke discussion. It didn't seem to TT; are you happy with it? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 18 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2009 Peter, Yes totally happy. I am not sure about brass ones. Again as with most of my rarer badges this came from Bosley. The strike is good, a typical Great war era slider. Would like to see others that people have. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted 18 February , 2009 Share Posted 18 February , 2009 20th Lancs Fuslrs (bantams). Got this for my birthday recently, enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 18 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2009 delboy, Many thanks for posting and welcome to this thread, your contribution is most welcome. And yes I am enjoying! Certainly looks good. To help others it would be great to see the rear of this title. Often the truth between a fake and a real is evident from the rear. This however looks 100% right. I do not have an example in my collection and will look out for one. Could you pm me your source mentioned in your other thread. Mant thanks TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted 18 February , 2009 Share Posted 18 February , 2009 Colleagues Sorry for not putting the otherside on show so here it is Regards Delboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonz Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Hi Guys, bringing this thread to the fore again with a couple of Manchester 'Pals' cap badges. For observation & comment. Cheers ! Steve Version 1........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonz Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Version 1 reverse....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonz Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Version 2 (mis-alighned cutting die,similar to delboy's 20th LF title).... LH critter's tip of tail broken off here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonz Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Version 2 reverse........... Looks to have been blackened at one stage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 24 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Steve, Both look ok to me. I have not heard of these being copied but I am sure anything is possible. The clipped example is interesting. I will dig my example out and post an image for comparison but it is very similar. I always think that the Pals would have had a better badge as this type is very crude in comparison to a standard Manchester badge. Quick economical manufacture I suppose. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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