trenchtrotter Posted 17 January , 2009 Share Posted 17 January , 2009 Following on from discussions on the recent Leeds Pals thread a few of us thought it would be a good idea to start a discussion thread about Pals insignia in general. We also thought RND badges could be included. The idea is for members to post pictures of "good" badges and "bad" badges to help inform people. I hope that the thread will be courteous and if a so called bad badge is posted courteous feedback will be given to be either rejected or taken as one sees fit. Others viewing can make their own minds up. I hope people find this thread useful and informative ( assuming it gets going) To start I have posted my images of what I believe is a good and genuine 18th Middlesex cap badge ( Public Works). Note I am not an expert but have been collecting Pals badges for a number of years and hope I have some knowledge. I have also put my trust in buying badges from the big boys with reputations but that is not always a guarentee. Anyhow I am happy with mine but always willing to get feed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 17 January , 2009 Share Posted 17 January , 2009 Hi TT. I like the bend line on the slider(always forget the correct word!) and the fact that the Middlesex scroll ends are not turned up as on the standard badge. This is as pictures in the standard ref. books. I know some may be looking fo blow holes to the reverse, but all I can say is there are no 100% rules in life. Cheers, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 17 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2009 Paul, I had never heard the tip about the scrolls but looking ay a standard Middlesex badge I get your drift. Re the blow holes I have not seen these on any so called genuine 18th badges and they are not there on a Middlesex badge I have either. I tend to see them on badges with larger white metal overlays. Look forward to seeing other items and views. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7t2ndswinger Posted 17 January , 2009 Share Posted 17 January , 2009 Paul, I had never heard the tip about the scrolls but looking ay a standard Middlesex badge I get your drift. Re the blow holes I have not seen these on any so called genuine 18th badges and they are not there on a Middlesex badge I have either. I tend to see them on badges with larger white metal overlays. Look forward to seeing other items and views. TT I've never heard the scroll end argument either but I'm not clear as to what is actually meant and would like to see a side by side photo with a regulars'. I like this badge though. Incidently, I've owned two 10th Btn Middlesex badges and neither had sweatholes but what they did feature was a 'squarish' look to the feathers which what I've always noticed about genuine Pals badges sold by the likes of Bosleys. My guess is that the same maker was responsible. The National Army Museum in Chelsea has one on display credited to J. R Gaunt and I'll check out the feathers and scrolls next time I'm there. ps Wardog...I'm sure both forums do share members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 17 January , 2009 Share Posted 17 January , 2009 Brilliant. My Public Works badge (also reputedly sold at Bosleys), has similar ends to the scrolls. I will take some photos and see if I can match them up for you. I'm really pleased this is up and running! Thanks mates Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 17 January , 2009 Share Posted 17 January , 2009 I think this to be a restrike/copy. Notice angle of scroll ends compared to TT's. This is just a point I have noticed, not read or heard about. Hope it is a possible indicator to good/bad. Cheers, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 17 January , 2009 Share Posted 17 January , 2009 I bought a number of badges from The Royal Rose Badge Company at one time. I think that was the name. I don't know if they exist now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 17 January , 2009 Share Posted 17 January , 2009 Usual Badge. This one happens to have 'slit' like sweat/blow holes. See next picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Terrific, thanks a lot! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Just noticed that the Public Works scroll on TT's is shorter in length than my presumed restrike, and the main body of mine is rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 18 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2009 And the rear of the bottom scroll (reverse) is very indistinct! TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 This is a brilliant idea and hope I haven't been duped in my recent purchases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Yes, standard bad point TT. Quite a bit different all round. Need some more examples now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Hi Bardess. I think you will need to start a new thread and post one image at a time as big as you can get it and lighten them up a bit. If we can we are going to try and deal with the 'Pals' battalions first. Cheers, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 A very welcome thread. Here's my first contribution, a shoulder title to the 17th (S) Bn (1st City) King's (Liverpool Rgt). This badge was found NW of Longueville a few years ago so I don't doubt it's authenticity, but the rear shows no sign of fixings or where fixings may have been. Now I'm sure I have read somewhere that some S/Ts such as this were sewn in place, comments welcomed, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 18 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Bardess, Really sorry but I agree with Paul, this is really for Pals / RND badges otherrwise it will get diluted. I hope someone can help if you start another thread. Nice Liverpool Pals shoulder badge. Did you find it. I have a non relic 2 and 3 shoulder badge and will post pictures for you. This type of shoulder title did tend to snag on equipment and was not practical. I have not heard of them being sewm on but if snagged and the loops broke it would make sense to sew. Thanks for posting and I will get some pics of mine on for you asap. Keep posts coming and thanks to all so far. Will also post images of my Wandsworth next to promote discussion. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 This leeds pals shoulder title was given to me by an elderly relative several years ago so i assume it to be original, does not seem to be any family connection to it, my grandfather enlisted in Leeds but he was with the 13th west yorks and later KOYLI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7t2ndswinger Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Bardess, Keep posts coming and thanks to all so far. Will also post images of my Wandsworth next to promote discussion. Regards TT I'm really looking forward to this one. I'll post some 12th Bermondsey collars later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Ok, here's the first of a couple of posts. Here's my Public Works battalion badge. It has: 1, The lower angle scrolls, and 2, the rounded edges to the lower title. Seems to fit with what we've established, so I reckon its a good'un Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 These badge are a bit more contentious. Wandsworth Battalion, with lugs. Looks OK from front, but no 'blow holes' at the back. This was the subject of considerable discussion on the Badge Forum, and the pertinent view was made that whereas the standard East Surreys have white metal attached to brass (or gilding metal if you prefer), it's the reverse for this badge. So, the jury's out. Also shown, a OSD (bronzed at least) Wandsworth Battalion, but with a slider. Not sure about this one. Any views? Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 And here's a Leeds Pals badge. I'm confident that this is a good 'un, because (after the last post), the owls have short legs, fatter bodies, and the shield top has random dots. Cheers Peter This leeds pals shoulder title was given to me by an elderly relative several years ago so i assume it to be original, does not seem to be any family connection to it, my grandfather enlisted in Leeds but he was with the west yorks and later KOYLI. Looks a good one to me, but would need to see both sides. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Finally, for this batch, here's my recently acquired 1st Birmingham Battalion Badge. I'm confident on this one, too, as it has the typical hairy stag, and its collar has three jewels, missing on the fakes. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 And, I forgot, here's the fake (or is it a Leeds tramways badge) for the Leeds Pals. Skinny legs, skinny bodies, pronounced line of dots at the edges of the shield. Hope all this is of interest. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Badges at the IWM. not the best picture, but one would hope they are original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 18 January , 2009 Share Posted 18 January , 2009 Badges at the IWM. not the best picture, but one would hope they are original. One would - I guess they are, but the fact they are nice and shiny makes them difficult to compare sometimes! Still, a fantastic resource for teh passer-by. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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