FROGSMILE Posted 21 January , 2015 Share Posted 21 January , 2015 Thank you for posting the link. I have a name for one of the officers on the course. He served with the 1/15th (County of London) Battalion (Civil Service Rifles) throughout the Great War. However, his marriage certificate dated 10th May 1918 states Lieutenant M.G.C. There is little detail in the public domain on the Army Level Schools, which is a pity as the 3rd Army led the way in the range and scope of courses it ran, including the first sniper courses at that level. There are records at the National Archives, but sadly little has been digitised as yet. In typical British Army fashion the establishments were apparently never formalised and thus all differed and were run on the so-called black economy in the time honoured way. I suspect your London Regiment man was originally in that battalion's MG section and then was absorbed like all the others into the MGC. As a Territorial he would have worn MGC insignia, but administratively remained on the London Regiment's books, as the MGC never had TF units. At the end of the war he would have reverted to the Londons, as a reservist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high wood Posted 21 January , 2015 Share Posted 21 January , 2015 Frogsmile, thank you for the extra information, it is appreciated. I think that I have located Rowland Cheesman, the officer in question,in the photograph as he is the only officer with a 15th London Officer's cap badge. It is a bugle on a boss and unlike the badge that he was wearing in earlier photographs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 January , 2015 Share Posted 21 January , 2015 Frogsmile, thank you for the extra information, it is appreciated. I think that I have located Rowland Cheesman, the officer in question,in the photograph as he is the only officer with a 15th London Officer's cap badge. It is a bugle on a boss and unlike the badge that he was wearing in earlier photographs. Yes I think that is him, the Civil Service Rifles officers did indeed wear a bugle mounted on a cord boss as their badge on SD caps. https://www.flickr.com/photos/14684508@N02/11910592876/in/photostream/ It has me puzzled as to whether that photo shows him before he went to the MGC, or if he was only ever 'on attachment' and retained his Civil Service Rifles insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 28 January , 2015 Share Posted 28 January , 2015 Here's a close up from a rather poor image of the "Instructors at Grenadier School, Mildenhall, Jan 20th 1916". The brassard appears to be pale, with a large grenadier's insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 28 January , 2015 Share Posted 28 January , 2015 Any idea what this brassard indicates....? No details regarding the individual, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2015 Interesting! Of course being RMLI the soldier's Brodrick still leaves a wide date range. I have a feeling it is Great War period though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 29 January , 2015 Share Posted 29 January , 2015 GMP armlet worn on both left or right wrists by a mixed group of RGA, West African Rifles and West Indies Regt. It also appears to be worn in a very loose style: Any idea about this armband being worn in France by a member of 2/E.Lancs.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 29 January , 2015 Share Posted 29 January , 2015 This is a shot of Gen. O'Moore Creagh V.C. as C.in.C. India (dating from 1914 - might be just pre-war). He seems to be wearing 2 rather large brassards - one on each arm. Any ideas....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 29 January , 2015 Share Posted 29 January , 2015 Battalion runner, but this shot shows that the 'armlet' actually took the form of a patch: Here are 2 images of a group of instructors from 3/Army Musketry Camp (the presence of o/s service chevrons on some of the men must date the image to 1918). The wording on the brassard is hard to make out, but the lower line seems to read 'MUSK. CAMP' (therefore the upper layer must presumably be '3rd ARMY'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 29 January , 2015 Share Posted 29 January , 2015 Womens services: Nice shot of a WAAC brassard, from 1918. Something very similar to a Derby Scheme brassard being worn by a member of Womans Land Army (probably dating from late 1918 or very early 1919): This one isn't strictly military (they're St. John's VAD's), but it shows some variation in style of wearing brassards. The first one is wearing her O.St.J brassard on her R arm and Red Cross on the L: ....while this one has an O.St.J. brassard on both arms, PLUS a Red Cross on her L arm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 29 January , 2015 Share Posted 29 January , 2015 Interesting! Of course being RMLI the soldier's Brodrick still leaves a wide date range. I have a feeling it is Great War period though. The back of the card doesn't look Edwardian but does look right for WW1. I also can't think of a civilian organization who would wear an armband like this together with these sort of clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 29 January , 2015 Share Posted 29 January , 2015 Battalion runner, but this shot shows that the 'armlet' actually took the form of a patch: five.jpg Nope! It was an armlet that this chap has cut down to be a patch. I have had tunics with the whole thing; and I currently have an example of a signals brassard that has been reduced to a large patch. Often seen. All great images thanks. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 29 January , 2015 Share Posted 29 January , 2015 Nope! It was an armlet that this chap has cut down to be a patch. I have had tunics with the whole thing; and I currently have an example of a signals brassard that has been reduced to a large patch. Often seen. All great images thanks. Yes, I've certainly seen a signals 'patch' such as you describe. Presumably it was neater and prevented the brassard from getting snagged on nails or woodwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 29 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2015 These are marvellous additions. I would wager that there is not a better collection of armband illustrations in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_acorn Posted 30 January , 2015 Share Posted 30 January , 2015 Headgardener, Those images you are posting are superb. Thank you. Cheers, Hendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 30 January , 2015 Share Posted 30 January , 2015 Not sure if you already have a record of this one, as worn by a member of 746 Area Employment Co., Labour Corps - it appears to say 'TRA...' (presumably 'TRAIN'?). Edit: for some reason I just can't get a clearer image, the lettering shows up better on the original. Any idea what this one is? A rather slim apparently blank brassard, worn on the left arm by a member of the QMG's staff in East Africa: Or this one.....? Worn on the R arm by a Major General in France in 1918: Or this....? it's being worn by 5 men from different regiments who may or may not be attached to a hospital: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 30 January , 2015 Share Posted 30 January , 2015 There's no indication as to what this one signifies (as worn by a member of 1/7 West Yorks) - I only include it because it shows the 3-button fastening on the inner edge of the brassard (which is not usually visible, of course). Edit: Sorry, can't get a better image, the silvering shows up on the scan and sightly obscures the detail) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 2 February , 2015 Share Posted 2 February , 2015 Given how common brassards were, there seems to be remarkably little uniformity regarding the arm that they were worn on. The 'Signals' brassard must be the most commonly seen brassard (alongside the Red Cross, I suppose). This group of men from the same signals section in France show some men wearing them on the left, others on the right, some on both arms, and one without anything: The brassard often appears to be little more than a piece of cloth knotted or stitched around the arm: Sometimes the mans chevrons were stitched onto his sleeve over the top of the brassard in order to hold it in place: Otherwise the brassard appears to be stitched directly onto the sleeve: In this instance the 'brassard' appears simply to be painted onto the sleeves of a gabardine rain-coat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 2 February , 2015 Share Posted 2 February , 2015 Maybe everyone's got a bit bored with this now, but here's one more - it's a nice shot of a 'GR' brassard worn by a member of (I think) the City of London Volunteer Force: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 2 February , 2015 Share Posted 2 February , 2015 Btw, does anyone have any idea about the brassards worn by C-in-C India in post #238, or those in any of the pics in post #246? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 2 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2015 Bored? No chance. here's a thought. I have never worn a brassard cum armband, but I always envisage such a band slipping down the arm. As for those worn near the cuff, any sudden gesture and my RMP or whatever would go flying! Has anyone any relevant experience please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 2 February , 2015 Share Posted 2 February , 2015 Bored? No chance. here's a thought. I have never worn a brassard cum armband, but I always envisage such a band slipping down the arm. As for those worn near the cuff, any sudden gesture and my RMP or whatever would go flying! Has anyone any relevant experience please? The tunic I had with a runner's armband had a few strategic stitches around the circumference to keep it in place. Otherwise, safety pins? Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 2 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2015 They certainly look as if they need some assistance. I have a few, one is RMP in massive brass letters, enough to knock your block off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 2 February , 2015 Share Posted 2 February , 2015 Bored? No chance. here's a thought. I have never worn a brassard cum armband, but I always envisage such a band slipping down the arm. As for those worn near the cuff, any sudden gesture and my RMP or whatever would go flying! Has anyone any relevant experience please? Otherwise, safety pins? From a WW1 living history point of view, the safety pin approach has a certain advantage in that you can use it fasten the two ends of a brassard around the sleeve and by judiciously putting the point through the material of the jacket at the same before shutting it really securely hold it in place. They do tend to gape a little though and present a bit of a risk of snagging on something, so you can see the advantage of firmly stitching it in place. On the cuff bands, I have seen examples with multiple small hooks along the top edge, designed to engage in small eyes or loops sewn on the cuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_acorn Posted 3 February , 2015 Share Posted 3 February , 2015 Grumpy, When I wore a GMP one for a few months back in the 80's the armlet was sewn onto a brassard that used the epaulette to stop it sliding off. Occasionally I wore one that had press studs and no brassard, a right pain if I couldn't find safety pins to hold it up, Cheers, Hendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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