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Muerrisch

brassards, armlets, armbands

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Muerrisch

Having seen the splendid photo in RE Gas Brassard question I am prompted to ask if we could get a collection of photos and IDs together?

My notebooks will supply a fair number.post-894-1137336313.jpg

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john in minnesota
you can do better than that!

A great resource - thanks!

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Joe Sweeney

LB 1418,

Nice notes.

Here is list I started compiling awhile ago. All are 1914 through 1919. This is not complete and I have lots more pages to go through. Hope you can collect over 96 photos.

All have GRO's and RACD patterns references and most have multiple primary references.

1 General HQ Red and blue BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

2 Army HQ Red Black Red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

3 Army Corps HQ Red White Red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

4 Corps MG Ofc. Red White Red with metal MGC insignia BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

5 RFC HQ Light blue edged with dark blue, red stripe running lengthwise across entire centre, RFC in drk blue ltrs BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

6 Cavalry Divisional HQ Red; CD in black letters BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

7 Div HQ Red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

8 Tank Corps Staff----Tank HQ Blue band w/red edging, and w/ an emblem of a tank in white BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

9 Tank Bde Blue band w/ an emblem of a tank in white BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

10 Inf Bde Blue BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

11 Cav. Div Art HQ Red; w embrodiered gun; CD in black letters BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

12 Div Art HQ Red; w embrodiered gun BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

13 GHQ Troops HQ Dark Blue, GHQ trps in Red ltrs BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

14 LoC Red; L. of C. in black letters BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

15 P.M. and APM Black; PM or APM in red letters BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

16 Signal Service White over blue BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

17 Military Police Black; MP in red letters BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

18 Railway transport officer White; RTO in black ltrs BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

19 Embarkation Staff White, Embark, in blk ltrs BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

20 IWT White w/blue anchor BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

21 Servants to Military attaches Yellow BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

22 Stretcher Bearers White; SB in red letters BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

23 All Medical personnel White, Red cross BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

24 Press Correspondents and servants Green BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

25 Train conducting officers Red, TCO in blk ltrs BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

26 Train conductors Brown canvas; Train Conductor in Blk letters BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

27 Checkers White, Checker inblk ltrs BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

28 Town Majors Khaki with "Town Major" in red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

29 Traffic control Black w/ TC in red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

28 Agents de Police Special Lilac with APS in black BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

31 Instructors of MG, Lewis schools and MGC Base depot Plain Yellow; MGC badge may be worn BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

32 HQ, Corps Heavy Art. Blue w embroidered gun BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

33 Special Bde Red, white and Green in vertical stripes BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

34 Area Commandants Blue "Area Commandants" in red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

35 Billet and camp Wardens Yellow, Warden in black BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

36 Corps Chem Ofc Green over black BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

37 Div Gas Off Green over black BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

38 NCO instructors of Div Gas school Green over black BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

39 Officers and Interprtors of the Brit Mission attached to PEF Gren, red, green BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

40 Camo Ofc att. To Corps Green Yellow, brown BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

41 Salvage Corps Khaki , Salvage in red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

42 Civilian Platelayers White, RY in blk BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

43 Intelligence Police Blue IC in green BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

44 Belgian Civ Rly Staff Green, crossed pick and shovel in red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

45 Guides Blue, Guide in Blk BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

46 Baggage men Red Baggage in Blk BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

47 Leave boat area Red, L in blk BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

48 NCO and area intelligence Corps Blue IC in green BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

49 WO, NCO and men of dock dirct. White, D in blk BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

50 Senties on Examining posts Black Ex. P in Red BEF GRO' to Jan 1918

51 Dir Light Rly Blue, LR in Red GRO 2242 BEF

52 Dir Roads Blue, R in red GRO 2242 BEF

53 Dir. Docks Blue, D in Red GRO 2242 BEF

54 Dir Trans. Blue, TN in Red GRO 2242 BEF

55 Dir IWT Blue IWT in Red GRO 2242 BEF

56 Broad Guage Rly Blue, RC in Red GRO 2242 BEF

57 Ass. Mil Leave Ofc Red, ALMO in Blk RACD patterns

58 Mombassa Red RACD patterns

59 Interpretor LCL Blue, Interpretor Chinese Labour Corps in yellow RACD patterns

60 Draft Conducting Ofc White, DCO in blk RACD patterns

61 Vol For. & Emergency Trans Drivers--1915 Red, GR in Blk RACD patterns

62 Vol For. & Emergency Trans Drivers 1917 Red, GR w crown in Blk RACD patterns

63 Fire Police Drab, P in red RACD patterns

64 Derby scheme Drab, Red crown RACD patterns

65 Rly Trans Orderlies Red, RL in Blk RACD patterns

66 Transport staff White, ADJT in blk RACD patterns

67 Transport staff White, SM in Blk RACD patterns

68 Transport staff White, Duty in Blk RACD patterns

69 Transport staff White, D in blk RACD patterns

70 Broad Guage Rly Purple, RC in Red RACD patterns

71 Regimental Police Black, RP in Red RACD patterns

72 Regimental Police Black RMP in Red RACD patterns

73 Water Police Black, WP in red RACD patterns

74 Traffic control Black, w/Traffic in red RACD patterns

75 Inspect Ammo Depot Drab, I (did not record ltr color) RACD patterns

76 Principal Foreman Drab, PF (did not record ltr color) RACD patterns

77 Light Rly Drab, LR Dist Supt (did not record ltr color) RACD patterns

78 Light Rly Drab, LR Insp (did not record ltr color) RACD patterns

79 Light Rly Drab, LR Yarder (did not record ltr color) RACD patterns

80 Light Rly Drab, LR Control (did not record ltr color) RACD patterns

81 Light Rly Drab, LR Guard (did not record ltr color) RACD patterns

82 Inland Water & Docks White, IW&D in Blue RACD patterns

83 Disabled men White, w/crown Red RACD patterns

84 Interpretor Salon. & Egypt Green and White RACD patterns

85 Discharged Soldiers in Hosp. Red, Whit, Blue RACD patterns

86 Guides 1914 - 1916 Green with Royal Arms RACD patterns

87 Recruiting Officers Blue, Recruiting in Red RACD patterns

88 Dys. Hosp. Red RACD patterns

89 Convesc. Patients Green RACD patterns

90 Military Police through 1916 Red, MP in black RACD patterns

91 Army Postal Service Drab, Crown with APS in Red RACD patterns

92 Santary Sections in France 1917 Yellow, SAN in Red RACD patterns

93 Employees at Ammo Depot Blue, AOD in Red RACD patterns

94 Military Control Ofc Blue, MCO in Red. RACD patterns

95 Garrison MPs GMP (need to look up patterns) PVCN 15

96 Hospital HP (need to look up patterns) PVCN 15

Joe Sweeney

Posting from a spreadsheet leaves a lot to be desired

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charlesmessenger

LB

In addition to Joe’s excellent list here are some gleaned from WO 359/16 (Army Clothing Department Register of Changes 1915-1921):

Cav Bde – Blue with CB in black

Corps Heavy Arty – Blue with embroidered gun

Town Majors – this document states that the brassard was black (as opposed to Joe’s khaki) with Town Major in red letters

Railhead officers – Bright green

Cadets at GHQ Cadet School – Green with Cadet School in silver

Otherwise the document correlates extremely well with Joe’s information (I suspect he may have consulted it).

Charles M

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Muerrisch

Many thanks: now all I have to do is illustrate them and try to post them.

Thats what retirement is for I suppose.

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Joe Sweeney

Charles,

You got it WO359/16 is where I'm getting most of the info.

I only started putting the spreadsheet together as a quick reference guide for myself and I never did a good comprehensive once through just looking for armlets.

I never went in and did any deconflicts or notes when the armlets were approved and then obsoleted (nor how many varieties of each there were).

LB 1418,

If you have any questions let me know I actually have a complete copy of 359/16 so I can go back in to see additional info.

Joe Sweeney

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Muerrisch

Joe and Charles, many thanks. I am starting to draft illustrations, if that seems sensible. I can start 1905, with the RAMC brassard predating that of course.

Queries will naturally arise, and I will post them here.

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Desmond7

Nice pic of an 'armband' - 36th Div. Signals RE I believe ....

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Chief_Chum

I'll post a few brassard scans once the technology is fixed... !

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Chief_Chum

Army Corps Headquarters.

(This and the Army HQ Brassard were worn by Capt. Kennedy originally of the East Surries)

post-1565-1137670498.jpg

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Chief_Chum

Stretcher Bearer (this one belonged to an 11/Suffolk soldier)...

post-1565-1137670565.jpg

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Chief_Chum

These Red Cross armbands come in all shapes and sizes but this one belonged to a VAD and is numbered '741' - West Lancashire Voluntary Aid and dated 26.10.16...

post-1565-1137670688.jpg

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Chief_Chum

The VTC - hence their nickname, 'Gorgeous Wrecks".

This brassard belonged to Charles J. Buck, D Coy, Willesden Battalion VTC/6th Volunteer Battalion, Middlesex Regiment; later Sgt C.J.Buck, 20th Btn MGC...

post-1565-1137670888.jpg

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Chief_Chum

Some confusion with this one; some say that this was a later VTC brassard and some say it was a variation of the Derby Scheme one (see next post). Can anyone say for sure?

The Derby Scheme...

post-1565-1137671004.jpg

post-1565-1137671056.jpg

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Chief_Chum

The joys of modern technology... the Derby Scheme armband is the one on the left above - the technology added it to the previous post!

Signals...

post-1565-1137671176.jpg

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Chief_Chum

According to the IWM, this red-crown-on-a-white-brassard was worn by convalescent Officers...

I hope this is what you wanted!

Cheers,

Taff

post-1565-1137671288.jpg

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Muerrisch

Taff: these are great: once I can post, I will start to put up my sketches of armbands from the lists and descriptions I have received. I can add RP and one or two others in the flesh. I can and will be able to illustrate up to about 1937 .............. notional sketches, but an aid to recognition etc in old photos.

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Joe Sweeney

Taff,

Great photos of the armlets.

The White with Red crown is simply descibed in the RACD ledgers as "Disabledmen". Having never seen an actual example I had always assumed that to be just like the Derby armlet with cut-out crown. But seeing the quality of the red crown on yours it looks too good for OR's.

LB14/18,

Great effort. This has been neede for sometime.

Joe Sweeney

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Graham Stewart

Chief Chum,

Regarding identification of the two khaki armbands. The one to the left is the "Derby Scheme" armband and the one to the right is the armband of the "Volunteer Force" which replaced the Volunteer Training Corps in July 1916 and so a new khaki armband was issued. It can also be found in grey-green the colour of the VTC's original uniforms.

Graham.

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Chief_Chum

Thanks Graham,

That's great to know at last! Do you have a copy of your VTC article? I would be very interested to read it. I have an Original Suffolk VTC cap, tunic and waistbelt and quite a few other VTC and Volunteer odds and end including a marksmans badge but I would be interested in finding out more.

Joe and LB,

Glad to be able to help. There is an example of the white armband with the red crown on display at the IWM labelled as a convalescent Officers brassard but I have no other source of information for it.

Grovetown,

Nice armband. I have a picture of a group of 2/Suffolk men taken in 1918 and several have bands around their cuffs like yours but are obviously in different colors presumably for different companies?

Cheers,

Taff

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Graham Stewart

Taff,

Send an e.mail address for VTC article.

Graham.

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Grovetown
Nice armband. I have a picture of a group of 2/Suffolk men taken in 1918 and several have bands around their cuffs like yours but are obviously in different colors presumably for different companies?
Taff, thanks: all compliments gladly accepted. The colour isn't coy specific, it's role specific. Red: Runner; Green: Scout (sniper); Blue: Sigs; Yellow: Carrying Party (whatever that might be); and Khaki with 'Salvage': er, Salvage Party. This is taken from Brassey's Bull book, and is attributed to The Training and Employment of Divisions, January 1918. For reasons various, this tunic is of the February 1918 forward period.

Best wishes,

Grovetown.

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Chief_Chum

Thanks for that!

How is the brassard fixed to the cuff? I have always assumed it would have hooks of some kind like the Regimental Police ones which were then unhooked and taken off when not on duty...

Cheers,

Taff

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Chief_Chum

Doh!

I see that you said it was tacked to the tunic. I'm surprised the coloured band wasn't just sewn straight on the cuff without the buckle if it wasn't intended to be taken off...

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