brassards, armlets, armbands

[mattgibbs]

Partly answering my own question, in the absense of other expert commentary thus far, I discover in the Dress Regulation for the Army 1934 there is listed in the section on page 36 about Armbands a Red, Black, Red striped armband with red letter C designated for Assistant Chaplain-General.

[wainfleet]

Can anyone identify this armband which I recently purchased? It's clear what the blue/white stands for, but the W? It is obviously some specialist role, and the story is that the original owner was a wire layer in the REs, which is feasible but there's no other evidence to support that.

The armband is cotton drill. Whilst WW1 period examples are usually wool, I'm inclined to believe it's not WW2, which I've only ever seen fasten with studs or buttons. To me it has the Great War look and feel, but good news or bad, honest assessments please!

[Peter Doyle]

Looks Great War to me (you got there before me!), but I am as puzzled as you are about the W...

Peter

[Krithia]

Maybe "W" Company signals, e.g. from the pre/early war company scheme W, X, Y, Z before they were changed to A, B, C, D?

or

"W" for Waterways, RE?

[Staffsyeoman]

Wireless ?

[tocemma]

Wireless ?

That's a good suggestion. Give that man a coconut!

Tocemma

[Muerrisch]

I have a problem with W = wire anything.

1. 'wires' were called 'lines'.

2. Anybody operating Wire less would be in a bunker, and not needing a brassard as ID.

[Staffsyeoman]

Really? I was at a presentation at the Institute for Historical Research by Dr Brian Hall of Salford University whose Doctorate was on 'Communications and Information Processing on the Western Front' - and by 1918 there were lorry-borne wireless sets. Which needed another lorry for the capacitors.

[tocemma]

Really?

Plenty of pictures of them being used in trenches. I would have thought they were very likely to want to show their association with sparkly new technology. Don't be quick to dismiss it Grumpy. It is as good as any of the other guesses so far. Although the cloth is not especially GW looking on WFs brassard, the buckle certainly looks to be period.

Tocemma

[Muerrisch]

Don't be quick to dismiss it Grumpy.

Tocemma

Not what I said at all!

However, even the assumption that blue/white is 'signals' is flawed: the 1913 Training & Manoevre Regs give the armlet as for 'Neutrals' [there were 7 different armlets for the various classes of official onlookers]. So W could be just about anything...... west, welsh, wessex, works, weapons ........

All as good as 'wireless' I submit.

And none likely to be correct.

What I can say is that, from my considerable study of armlets throughout their history, W on blue/white does not appear to be ordnance issue.

Forensic analysis of the moth holes might even demonstrate an association with Rameses II.

[wainfleet]

Interesting replies. Grumpy's first point, about wires being referred to as lines, rules out the wire layer argument.

I think it's safe to assume that this is the armband used by signallers and dispatch riders, which must have been produced in tens of thousands, rather than one of perhaps a hundred or so prewar manoeuvre armbands, which anyway would probably have been a bit smarter than this. The W not being ordnance issue is not a problem to my mind, as such things might have been authorised locally at anything down to battalion level.

Wireless seems a good bet. It is a form of signalling, and they were being used in the trenches, if not the actual frontline, by 1916.

I am however taking very seriously the suggested connection with Rameses and will be contacting the Conservation Department of the British Museum for advice shortly.

[Muerrisch]

Good man!

NB it is Rameses II, not his dad.

[tocemma]

Grumpy,

I realise that you have been studying armlets for hundreds of years and must, by now, have seen all of them. I have to announce that after several minutes of painstaking detective work at the British Museum, I have uncovered startling new evidence of a previously unrecorded armlet.

The collective might of the forum can now hopefully unravel the mysterious letter 'T' visible in this rare archive photo. The subject also has mysterious blue shoulder straps.....

Dr T M Tocemma

Department of Unidentified Textiles

British Museum

Croydon

[Grovetown]

Egyptian Labour Corps.

The T stands for 'Thebes Company'.

Best wishes,

GT.

[tocemma]

Ah, a company of Thebes....

[Muerrisch]

The blue shoulder straps are the most senior rank of Dragon ...... see avatar.

I fancy I know what the T is for, rhymes with Dosser, can't think what the word is.

Dragon suspects Dragon has been shafted.

Good on yer!

[Staffsyeoman]

Pharaoh-nuf.... (Coat, me, getting...)

[Muerrisch]

this thread Sphinx!

coat, please!

[green_acorn]

In addition to Tocemma's post about the Sphinx and Grumpy's longevity, I noticed today in another thread two armbands/brassards which have not made the list here. The armbands in question are those posted by Sue Light of the Military Massage Corps at this thread Australian Military Massage Corps

Cheers,

Hendo

[Muerrisch]

Noted, thank you.

I kept off the thread because I knew I would weaken and let the side down .......

I kept thinking of Major Bloodnok and the Mobile Bath Unit of the 4th Armoured Thunderboxes .......

I'm off before I disgrace myself, leave it to the grown-ups.

[green_acorn]

This one I believe is a new addition to the thread. Allegedly it is one of a type worn by the Australian Army Nursing Service in WW1, the images were found on eBay, from memory the item sold for about AUD $300, so someone thought it was genuine.

Cheers,

Hendo

[Staffsyeoman]

What an absolute gem.

[rugbyremembers]

Advance apologies for a massively over-simplifed question ( having read this thread).

I have read recently in Les Carlyon's book on Gallipoli that the New Army brigades landing at Suvla bay were wearing white armlets (very handy for Turkish snipers). Can anyone tell me

a) is this true and who wore them?

what is significance - does it indeed denote New Army troops in some way?

c) does this apply to all ranks, just officers, or some other group, eg battalion , regiment, single brigade or whatever/

Many thanks

[Krithia]

Hi Rugby,

Yes that is correct. As one Aussie in the Lone Pine attack later wrote "We were issued with a white strip of calico to sew on to each arm and a big patch for the back, this was for the artillery to show where our men were, and also made a good mark for Johnie as we soon found to our cost".

All infantry ranks engaged on the field of battle, at Suvla and Anzac in the August 1915, were instructed to wear the strips on the arm and patches (commonly squares and triangles) on the back for this reason. Some of the New Army battalions were also instructed to polish their mess tis and wear these on their backs, which turned out to be excellent aiming spots for the Turks!

regards, Krithia

[green_acorn]

Rugbyremembers,

You will often find troops wearing white armlets during the Great War as a simple means of "friend or foe" identification, it was a quite common method during the Gallipoli campaign sometimes combined with a square patch of white cloth on the back of a soldier that could be seen at a distance by observers to the rear. remember we are talking pre-radio days and at a distance all uniforms and colours just look grey, the white armbands allowed observers and commanders to recognise their own troops and where they were.

You see modern variations today, for example Thai and Khmer troops have used coloured scarves denoting which side they support in coups, today Thai protesters wear yellow or red t-shirts for the same reason. You may also recall during the 2003 invasion of Iraq long lines of flashing lights during the night, these were Infra Red "blinkers" on every vehicle and soldier, to identify troops and vehicles to each other and most importantly (tongue firmly in cheek Pete1052) marauding US aircraft.

Cheers,

Hendo