'Last Absolution of the Munsters'

[Greyhound]

Well, perhaps she or her husband had a local connection with Pinner. Maybe they lived there at some time.

[Sullivan]

To be honest ... I was a little disappointed !! .................

the one she gave to Richebourg was so special and so meaningful .....

and then to see that piece in The Times - regarding giving one to the Church in Pinner - was to say the least - a little of a surprise !! ..... ( so I believe that's 4 count now - so far !! )

Ignore me ....... probably just my sensibilities !!

Annie

PS I did send them an email !!

Annie,

The Times report depends on the interpretation of the word "painting ". Remember that coloured poster prints taken from the original painting appeared in various issues of magazines and journals such as London Illustrated News, The Sphere and the Freeman Journal. No doubt copies of the prints could have been abailable for purchase by the general public. If it was not for these posters appearing, we would have no visual record of the event to this day, as you know the original painting was destroyed in WW2.

I would be interesting to find out though if the "painting" is still hanging in the church at Pinner, and if so if it could be examined to determin if a "painting" or poster print.

Any volunteers.

Sullivan.

[liverpool annie]

Hi Sullivan !

Where was the original when it was destroyed ? all I could find was this ....... "During WW2 many of his paintings and drawings were destroyed when his studio was bombed in the Blitz."

I found a little more information on Mantania and I was interested to read .............

" He rarely made preliminary sketches preferring to begin an elaborate illustration without previous preparation. It was as if he had a exact mental photograph of the art before he began to paint or draw "

Here's a bit more just in case anybody is interested in his background !

Fortunino Mantania born in Naples 16 April 1881 - 8 February 1963

Born in Naples the son of artist Eduoardo Matania Fortunino Matania studied at his father's studio - designing a soap advertisement at the age of 9 and exhibiting his first work at Naples Academy at 11 and illustrated his first book at the age of 14 He studied in Paris, Milan and London, where he worked on The Graphic - his talent was recognised by the editor of the Italian periodical L'Illustrazione Italiania and Matania produced weekly illustrations for the magazine between 1895 and 1902.

At the age of 20 - Matania began working in Paris for Illustration Francaise and in 1902 - was invited to London to cover the Coronation of Edward VII for The Graphic. Matania would subsequently cover every major event – marriage, christening, funeral and Coronation – of British royalty up to the coronation of Queen Elizabeth in 1953.

He returned to Italy at the age of 22 for military service in the Bersaglieri. He then returned to London in 1904, Matania joined the staff of The Sphere where some of his most famous work was to appear - including his illustrations of the sinking of the Titanic in 1912.

At the outbreak of the First World War, Matania became a war artist and spent nearly five years at the front drawing hundreds of sketches and was acclaimed for his graphic and realistic images of trench warfare ..... his work was admired by military experts and critics alike for his technical accomplishment and scrupulous accuracy. His war art features in virtually every history or encyclopaedia of WW1 ever produced.

Matania was made a Chevalier of the Crown of Italy ....... exhibited regularly at the Royal Academy and Royal Institute from 1908 with his work appearing in most of the principal magazines in Britain and America - including Illustrated London News, London Magazine, Nash's, Printer's Pie and others. When Britannia and Eve was launched in 1929, Matania became one of its first contributors. For 19 years, he wrote and illustrated historical stories for the magazine.

Matania was an expert at historical scenes from all periods of history and his Ancient Roman and classical illustrations are particularly admired and collected - he was also recommented to Hollywood director Cecil B. DeMille and produced a number of paintings of Rome and Egypt - from which authentic designs could be made for the movie The Ten Commandments

In his studio he maintained an enormous collection of artefacts to aid him in his work - He rarely made preliminary sketches preferring to begin an elaborate illustration without previous preparation. It was as if he had a exact mental photograph of the art before he began to paint or draw - His reputation was such that he was visited in his studio in London by Annigoni, Russell Flint, and John Singer Sargent, and his work is collected and admired by many of today's greatest artists and illustrators.

During WW2 many of his paintings and drawings were destroyed when his studio was bombed in the Blitz. He was so prolific however, that many examples of his art still survive.

But it was after the war - when he switched to scenes of ancient high life for the British woman's magazine, Britannia and Eve, that Matania found his real career. He filled his London studio with reproductions of Roman furniture, pored over history books for suitably lively subjects. Then, with the help of models and statues, he began to paint such subjects as Samson & Delilah, the bacchanalian roisters of ancient Rome, and even early American Indian maidens—all with the same careful respect for accuracy and detail he had used in his news assignments.

Annie

[Sullivan]

Hi Sullivan !

Where was the original when it was destroyed ? all I could find was this ....... "During WW2 many of his paintings and drawings were destroyed when his studio was bombed in the Blitz."

1953.

Annie

Annie,

My post No. 35 Oct 13 2006 on page 2 refers to what happened, copy below -

"I carried research on the location of the original painting, I was advised by the Documentation Officer Department of Art, Imperial War Museum, Lambeth Road, London, as follows:-

According to our records, the painting was destroyed by fire during the Second World War. It was one of a number of Matania First World War works that were in the hands of the Illustrated London News and other publications. Matania was an artist who produced work for use in such publications and as a result much of his original work was purchased by, or belonged to, these publications. It was whilst with them that they appear to have been destroyed during the Second World War. Our Matania collection consists of two original works, one poster, several lithographs and four reproduced prints. We have an old newspaper cutting relating to his painting of the Munsters, but this contains only a small black and white, poor quality image of the work."

Here is the man himself -

The most renowned of all war illustrators, Matania was born in Naples and by the age of twenty he was working in Paris France, soon he moved to London and took up employment. Following three years with the Graphic, he returned to Italy to complete his national military service, it was in this period that he gained an insight into military life as seen through the eyes of an artist.

The London Times has several articles and advertisements relative to Matania paintings.

Sullivan

[liverpool annie]

Sorry Sullivan !

Didn't mean to make you go over old ground ...... I read that post ... but not properly !

I was checking IWM and couldn't find it ... now I know why !

Thanks for the photo ..... I hadn't seen one of him before !

Annie

[Sullivan]

Sorry Sullivan !

Didn't mean to make you go over old ground ...... I read that post ... but not properly !

I was checking IWM and couldn't find it ... now I know why !

Thanks for the photo ..... I hadn't seen one of him before !

Annie

Annie,

Matania's attention to detail was often quoted but it did get him into hot-water, read below -

The Times -Saturday December 4 1937.

Sullivan.

[liverpool annie]

That's funny !! I shouldn't laugh !

Annie

[Sullivan]

Matania's work was advertised frequently.

Sullivan.

[michel knockaert]

Hello Annie,

"Here's a bit more just in case anybody is interested in his background !"

OF COURSE, we are interested in Matania's background, in all cases I AM !!!

"respect" Madame !

Michel

[michel knockaert]

James,

"respect" Monsieur also for you !

What fabulous treasures you make us discover !

thank you

Michel

[marina]

Loved the stoyr of the ammo from the War Office!

Marina

[liverpool annie]

Hindsight ............ is always 20/20 ??

The Battle of Aubers - 9 May 1915

What lessons were learned from this battle?

General Sir Douglas Haig, commanding First Army

"The conclusions I have arrived at are: 1. The defences in our front are so carefully and so strongly made, and mutual support with machine-guns is so complete, that in order to demolish them a long methodical bombardment will be necessary by heavy artillery (guns and howitzers) before Infantry are sent forward to attack. 2. To destroy enemy's 'material', 60-pounder guns will be tried, as well as the 15-inch, 9.2-inch and 6-inch siege howitzers. Accurate observations of each shot will be arranged so as to make sure of flattening out the enemy's 'strong points' of support, before the Infantry is launched." (Private papers, 11 May 1915)

http://www.1914-1918.net/BATTLES/bat11_aub...1_hindsight.htm

[Sullivan]

James,

"respect" Monsieur also for you !

What fabulous treasures you make us discover !

thank you

Michel

Michel,

Thank you, pleased you found the posts of interest.

James.

[Ozzie]

This tread has not only been educational, but also emotional and rewarding.

Great work people.

Cheers

Kim

[ian turner]

Hindsight ............ is always 20/20 ??

The Battle of Aubers - 9 May 1915

What lessons were learned from this battle?

General Sir Douglas Haig, commanding First Army

"The conclusions I have arrived at are:

http://www.1914-1918.net/BATTLES/bat11_aub...1_hindsight.htm

Make sure Matania is on hand to capture the scenes, ensure his work is subsequently safely preserved from future wars, but always leave some areas of doubt for GWF members to investigate in the future.

(Posted with tounge in cheek, but with due respect for all concerned)

Ian

[liverpool annie]

Just to show how equmenical the Munsters were ......... and to be a little light hearted !!

Rodney Gipsy Smith (1860-1947) was an English evangelist who made over forty evangelistic trips abroad to such countries as the United States, Australia and South Africa.

Gipsy Smith: I have just come back from your boys [the British soldiers fighting the First World War in France]. I have been living among them and talking to them for six months. I have been under shell fire for a month, night and day. I have preached the Gospel within forty yards of the Germans. I have tried to sleep at night in a cellar, and it was so cold that my moustache froze to my blanket and my boots froze to the floor. The meal which comforted me most was a little sour French bread and some Swiss milk and hot water, and a pinch of sugar when I could get it.

There are Y.M.C.A. marquees [big tents] close to the roads down which come the walking wounded from the trenches. In three of these marquees last summer, in three days over ten thousand cases were provided with hot drinks and refreshment - free. And that I call Christian work. You and I have been too much concerned about the preaching and too little about the doing of things.

Fetching the Munsters

I once went to a hut just behind the line, within the sound of the guns. Buildings all round us had been blown to pieces. The leader of this hut was a clergyman of the Church of England, but he wasn't an ecclesiastic there, he was a man amongst men, and we loved him.

"Gipsy Smith," he said, "I don't know what you will do; the boys in the billets this week are the Munsters [Regiment] - Irish Roman Catholics. You would have got on all right last week; we had the York and Lancasters." [English regiments]

"Do you think they will come to the meetings?"

"I don't know," he replied; "they come for everything else! They come for their smokes, candles, soap, buttons - bachelor's buttons [flowers] - postcards, and everything else they want. But whether they will come for the religious part, I don't know."

"Well," I said, "we can but try."

It was about midday when we were talking, and the meeting was to be at 6.30.

"Have you got a boy who could write a bill [advertisement] for me?" I asked.

"Yes," he said, "I've got a boy who could do that all right."

"Print it on green paper," said I.

Why not? They were the Munsters. Why shouldn't we use our heads? People think mighty hard in business, why shouldn't we think in the religious world?

"Just say this and nothing more," I said.

"`Gipsy Smith will give a talk in the Hut tonight at 6.30. Subject - Gipsy Life.'"

I knew that would fetch them.

At half-past six the hut was crowded with eight hundred Munsters. If you are an old angler [fisherman], indeed if you know anything at all about angling, you know that you have got to consider two or three things if you are to stand any chance of a catch. You have got to study your tackle, you have got to study your bait, you have got to study the habits of your fish. When the time came to begin that meeting, one of the workers said,

"Shall I bring the box of hymn-books out?"

"No, no," I replied; "that's the wrong bait."

Those Munster boys knew nothing about hymn-books. We preachers have got to come off our pedestals and not give our hearers what we want, but the thing that will catch them. If a pretty, catchy [ira D.] Sankey hymn will attract , a crowd, why shouldn't we use it instead of an anthem? If a brass band will catch them, why shouldn't we play it instead of an organ?

"Keep back those hymn-books," I said. "They know nothing about hymn-books." I had a pretty good idea of what would have happened if those hymn-books had been produced at the start.

I got on that platform, and I looked at those eight hundred Munsters and said, "Boys, are we down-hearted?"

"No," they shouted.

You can imagine what eight hundred Munsters shouting "No" sounds like. They were all attention instantly. I wonder what would happen if the Vicar went into church next Sunday morning and asked the question, "Are we down-hearted?" I knew it would cause a sensation, but I'd rather have a sensation than a stagnation.

Those boys sat up. I said, "We are going to talk about gipsy life." I talked to them about the origin of my people. There's not a man living in the world who knows the origin of my people. I can trace my people back to India, but they didn't come from India. We are one of the oldest races in the world, so old that nobody knows how old. I talked to them about the origin of the gipsies, and I don't know it, but I knew more about it than they did. I talked to them about our language, and I gave them specimens of it, and there I was on sure ground. It is a beautiful language, full of poetry and music.

Then I talked about the way the gipsies get their living - and other people's; and for thirty minutes those Munsters hardly knew if they were on the chairs or on the floor - and I purposely made them laugh. They had just come out of the hell of the trenches. They had that haunted, weary, hungry look, and if only I could make them laugh and forget the hell out of which they had just climbed, it was religion, and I wasn't wasting time.

When I had been talking for thirty minutes, I stopped, and said, "Boys, there's a lot more to this story. Would you like some more?"

"Yes," they shouted.

"Come back to-morrow," I said.

[Sullivan]

Just to show how equmenical the Munsters were ......... and to be a little light hearted !!

Rodney Gipsy Smith (1860-1947) was an English evangelist who made over forty evangelistic trips abroad to such countries as the United States, Australia and South Africa.

Gipsy Smith: I have just come back from your boys [the British soldiers fighting the First World War in France]. ..............

Fetching the Munsters

I once went to a hut just behind the line, within the sound of the guns. Buildings all round us had been blown to pieces. The leader of this hut was a clergyman of the Church of England, but he wasn't an ecclesiastic there, he was a man amongst men, and we loved him.

"Gipsy Smith," he said, "I don't know what you will do; the boys in the billets this week are the Munsters [Regiment] - Irish Roman Catholics. You would have got on all right last week; we had the York and Lancasters." [English regiments]

Annie,

"Gipsy Smith," he said, "I don't know what you will do; the boys in the billets this week are the Munsters [Regiment] - Irish Roman Catholics. You would have got on all right last week; we had the York and Lancasters." [English regiments]

One important fact overlooked is the Munster's at this point in time consisted of not only R.C.'s but a high number of volunteers from the counties of England, Wales and Scotland and a mixture of Religious followers. This would have applied to both the 1st and 2nd battalions.

Examine the casualty list and you will see that they were not all Irish born and more than likely not all R.C's.

Refer the article reference date.

In the Trenches of the First World War, a Preacher meets Your Boys by Rodney "Gipsy" Smith, England, 1918.

I am assuming the article was written about 1917-1918.

Sullivan.

[liverpool annie]

Hi Sullivan !

I hear what you're saying ! .... but in 1917 - 1918 people were not as politically correct as they are now !

I found this statistic ( not my forte ! ) - which seems to echo what you just said !

The first year total of Irish recruits exceeded the total of the remaining three years of the War. As the War progressed, Irish losses were replaced by UK conscripts. For example, the percentage of non-Irish soldiers in the 1st Royal Irish Rifles, which was based in Antrim and Down, was 23% in 1916. One year later it was 52%.

Annie

[Sullivan]

Hi Sullivan !

I hear what you're saying ! .... but in 1917 - 1918 people were not as politically correct as they are now !

I found this statistic ( not my forte ! ) - which seems to echo what you just said !

Annie

Annie,

Also the civil unrest in Ireland around the time of the Easter Rebellion is often quoted as having an effect on recruitment in Ireland. No doubt it would have played a part.

Sullivan.

[marina]

Great story, Annie.

Marina

[Ozzie]

As Marina has said, great story.

There are some interesting sentences in that story.

"You and I have been too much concerned about the preaching and too little about the doing of things."

"They had just come out of the hell of the trenches. They had that haunted, weary, hungry look, and if only I could make them laugh and forget the hell out of which they had just climbed, it was religion, and I wasn't wasting time."

Makes you think.

Kim

[liverpool annie]

I was looking at a link on another thread and saw this .... and the thought occured to me .... who cares where you come from or whether you're Catholic or Protestant ..... everybody sometimes feels the need for a little faith and comfort !

The Shrines in France seem to have done that for both sides !

http://www.kaiserscross.com/41902/41931.html

Annie

[liverpool annie]

Well I'm sorry to say ... the hoped for confirmation of Father Gleeson isn't to be ! I got this email from RSM's son and although he met Father Gleeson and knew him ........ it was a long time ago ............ !

" I studied the photos you sent me but had a difficult time identifying Canon Gleeson - either at the last absolution or in anointing at the burial scene "

So we're back to square one .... and have to find out some other way !!

Annie

[liverpool annie]

Look what you find Googling !!

I thought I'd found something ...... did you guys decide this wasn't the right one ??

http://www.lostgeneration1418.com/forums/i...?showtopic=1204

I must admit .... it is lovely !

Annie

[michel knockaert]

Look what you find Googling !!

I thought I'd found something ...... did you guys decide this wasn't the right one ??

http://www.lostgeneration1418.com/forums/i...?showtopic=1204

Annie

It is quite obvious that I join Annie and that I ask the same question : did you decide this was not the right one ?

Michel