michel knockaert Posted 29 April , 2007 Share Posted 29 April , 2007 Note, seated 1st right Colour Sergeant John Ring. Hello James, thank you very much for the photograph, it is very impressive to see all these men alive and to think what it happened few time after... very friendly Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 29 April , 2007 Share Posted 29 April , 2007 I hope that this thread has all the reveleant info by end of July, because this thread and the painting have convinced me to visit Nouve Chapelle on our way to Ypres. We are going to Fromelles, so it is only a little way from there. Cheers Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 29 April , 2007 Share Posted 29 April , 2007 I hope that this thread has all the reveleant info by end of July, because this thread and the painting have convinced me to visit Nouve Chapelle on our way to Ypres. We are going to Fromelles, so it is only a little way from there. Cheers Kim Kim, if you need I will be there for you, these places are "in my garden". Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 Thanks Michel, I'll keep you posted. Cheers Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 Note, seated 1st right Colour Sergeant John Ring. Hello James, thank you very much for the photograph, it is very impressive to see all these men alive and to think what it happened few time after... very friendly Michel Michel, Many thanks for your comment re the photograph. I am presently transcribing the 3 page appendix report that was written by Capt. T.W. Filgate and attached to the summary page of the 2nd battalion Munster Fusiliers war diary. Below is a short extract and I just wonder if you have any idea of the location of the cinder track that is mentioned. Knowing the location would tell us where the 2nd battalion was positioned. I understand from other posts on the GWF that the cinder track ran from Rue du Bois to Ferme du Bois. The other GWF posts do not refer to the date of the 9th May 1915 or the Munster Fusiliers, but action on a later date. I have not found Ferme du Bois on the Google Earth map, does this location still exist. Report on the action of May 9th 1915. The 3rd infantry brigade were ordered to attack the German trenches in front of the Rue du Bois on the morning of May 9th 1915, with their right on the CINDER TRACK and the left on the West edge of the ORCHARD REDOUBT. For this purpose the 2nd Royal Munster Fusiliers and the 2nd Welch Regiment were detailed as assaulting battalions on the right and left respectively, with the 4th Welch Fusiliers as 2nd line battalion and Gloucester Regiment and South Wales Borderers as Brigade Reserve. The boundary between the 2nd Royal Munster Fusiliers and the 2nd Welch Regiment was the ditch that crossed the trenches about 300 yards to the left of the CINDER TRACK. On the evening of the 8th, 2nd Royal Munster Fusiliers took up their position with B&A Coys in the first line on the right and left respectively and D&C Coys in the support trenches immediately in the rear. The artillery bombardment began at 5. a.m on the 9th May 1915, it's first object being to cut two gaps in the enemy wire in front of the battalion. (1) gap with it's right on the CINDER TRACK (2) gap with it's right on a position previously pointed out to the O.C. 'A' Coy. I hope to post the full transcript on the GWF when completed. Sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 Time to panic... Chris has re-upped the pics "apart from a few posted just before the upgrade which are lost". I think Liam's pic of C.S. Ring's grave is one of those. Can you repost the pic please, Liam? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curranl Posted 1 May , 2007 Share Posted 1 May , 2007 Panic not, folks. Hope this one works - it's all changed since I was here last! Regards, Liam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 1 May , 2007 Share Posted 1 May , 2007 Looks good Liam ! ...... I hope you don't mind - I sent a copy of your picture to RSM Ring's son ..... he was happy to see it .... his comment .............. " I am glad to see the grave marker is in reasonable shape " ( typical "man thing " ) Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curranl Posted 1 May , 2007 Share Posted 1 May , 2007 Hi Annie, There's no roblem with passing it on. The offer to the family to add flowers, etc. still stands - I can even supply a photo of them if required! I notice you have changed you avatar to the Pery Square memorial! Regards, Liam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 1 May , 2007 Share Posted 1 May , 2007 Hi Annie, There's no roblem with passing it on. The offer to the family to add flowers, etc. still stands - I can even supply a photo of them if required! I notice you have changed you avatar to the Pery Square memorial! Regards, Liam. Hello "Hawkeye " !! I really wanted the original .... but I couldn't get the size right !! I'll send you a PM regarding flowers .... thank you so much ! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 1 May , 2007 Share Posted 1 May , 2007 "Below is a short extract and I just wonder if you have any idea of the location of the cinder track that is mentioned. Knowing the location would tell us where the 2nd battalion was positioned. I understand from other posts on the GWF that the cinder track ran from Rue du Bois to Ferme du Bois. The other GWF posts do not refer to the date of the 9th May 1915 or the Munster Fusiliers, but action on a later date. I have not found Ferme du Bois on the Google Earth map, does this location still exist." Hello James, I wondered since longtime when the question will be asked.... and by who ! Please remember post number 389, from our friend Jpc, he showed us a link who was talking about the attack with a very interesting map. Of course the location still exist ! I was walking there few days ago ! very friendly Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 2 May , 2007 Share Posted 2 May , 2007 Hello James, I wondered since longtime when the question will be asked.... and by who ! Please remember post number 389, from our friend Jpc, he showed us a link who was talking about the attack with a very interesting map. Of course the location still exist ! I was walking there few days ago ! very friendly Michel Michel, Thanks for reminding me, but I was hoping we could get a little closer. Based on another map from our mutual friend JPC, which is informative but not to scale, I have transferred what I believe was the situation onto to a Google Earth image- On Google Earth image, I have plotted what I believe was the position of the main body of troops involved in the 9th May attack. Indicated by the red line. Further left the red flag is the probable location of the Munster Fusiliers 'Last Absolution' based on your findings. The white line is my rough reckoning where the cinder track may be, am I close, metres or kilometres away. If you could mark the Google map where the track is it would be a great help. In a day or so I will be posting the report by Capt. T.W. Filgate on the 9th May action. Sullivan. (James). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 2 May , 2007 Share Posted 2 May , 2007 Hello James, in a first time here is the view of "cinder track" this afternoon at Richebourg, la rue du bois... very friendly Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 2 May , 2007 Share Posted 2 May , 2007 and the place where was "la ferme du bois" in 1915... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 2 May , 2007 Share Posted 2 May , 2007 And "Cinder Track" (on the left) and the battlefield between "la ferme du bois" and "la rue du bois" (photograph taked from german position) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 2 May , 2007 Share Posted 2 May , 2007 Wonderful photos Michel .......... thank you for sharing those ! Hard to imagine ...... seeing how it looks now ........ what awful things happened there ! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 And "Cinder Track" (on the left) and the battlefield between "la ferme du bois" and "la rue du bois" (photograph taked from german position) Michel, Thank you so much for the photos they are brilliant, they say a picture is worth a thousand words. It is certainly a very straight track. And now to go with the photos, report that I have transcribed from details supplied by J. Trafford, Devon England, the role played during the 9th May attack by the Munster Fusiliers and other regiments. The original was a 3 page report attached to the summary page of the War Diary. Written by Capt. T.W. Filgate 2nd battalion Munster Fusiliers and dated 13th May 1915. I have presented the full report as a pdf compressed to 2 pages. War Diary National Archives Reference Title: - 95/1279 - 3 Infantry Brigade: 2 Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers 1 DIVISION PART I: FRANCE, BELGIUM AND GERMANY War Office: First World War and Army of Occupation War Diaries The National Archives, Kew. Date range: 1914 - 1918. WD_2nd_RMF_9th_May_1915.pdf Sullivan (James). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Wonderful photos Michel .......... thank you for sharing those ! Hard to imagine ...... seeing how it looks now ........ what awful things happened there ! Annie Many thanks Annie ! Indeed, the nature is so beautiful under the sun, hares, pigeons, rabbits and partridges quiet living in the fields, ducks on the little pond, farmers working, spring scents... Someone who do not know the events and walk there can not absolutely imagine the horrors happended only 92 years ago. I had myself many difficulties of admitting reality of the things in this so peaceful place. Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 "It is certainly a very straight track." Hello james, Yes it is really a very straight track, have a look on this map's extract of the aera in 1916 : red arrow, the enter of Cinder Track, from "la rue du Bois" and black arrow, "la ferme du bois", in german sector. I am trying to locate "Orchard Redoubt". Michel PS : many thanks for the war diary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 "It is certainly a very straight track." Hello james, Yes it is really a very straight track, have a look on this map's extract of the aera in 1916 : red arrow, the enter of Cinder Track, from "la rue du Bois" and black arrow, "la ferme du bois", in german sector. I am trying to locate "Orchard Redoubt". Michel PS : many thanks for the war diary Michel, Many thanks for posting the map, it is excellent and answers a number of questions for me at least. I was interested in the the area around the cinder track and I can now see visually where the troops were formed up on the 9th May 1915 before going into battle. The Cinder Track, is it by any chance now known as Ruelle Noirette, I have been looking at Google Earth mapping again. Sullivan (James). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 The Cinder Track, is it by any chance now known as Ruelle Noirette, I have been looking at Google Earth mapping again." Hello Jame, BINGO ! You are rigth, "la ruelle noirette" IS "Cinder Track" in 1916, "Boars Head" was again theater of dramatic events, look : http://www.royalsussex.org.uk/Richebourg.htm Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 Can I ask a question ? Where's Sean ? did we scare him off ? ............ I was so looking forward to hearing about Father Gleeson ! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 Hello all, for those which that interests… here the photographs of the battle fields successively taken walking on “Cinder Track” and looking at left side, towards Neuve-Chapelle, you will be able to see at the bottoms of the landscape the Portuguese military cemetery to the crossroads of “Arthur port”. The ground of these fields is impregnated blood of Munsters... Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 So hard to believe isn't it Michel ? ..... that this place of beauty now ... was such an awful place to be ?? Thank you for all your time - to make things more understandable for us ! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 It's good to see the location, Michel. Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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