Robert Dunlop Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 I KNOW that our soldiers deserved their awards .... I just wonder how they can choose so many to be singled out for awards from other countries ??Annie, I don't know exactly how the choice was made in this case but I have seen details of other examples. Basically, British GHQ would be notified that a country wanted to distribute x number of medals. GHQ would then initiate a chain of requests for names of potential recipients. When such a request landed on the desk of the relevant Staff Officer, he would compile a list of names from his unit. Given that the request might arrive at any time, the choice would reflect the Staff Officer's personal view at that time. The list would then be forwarded up the chain again. Some of the names might be chosen from the list to become recipients of the award. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 Robert ! Thank you for that ..... that sounds reasonable ! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 Continuing on the Matania and Last Absolution thread, obituary from the Times. Note the reference to "...and went to the front several times..." Sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 What is the Tram of the Trenches? Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 During the war - a hospital was installed in the vicinity as well as the terminus of the Tram of Distinct - name given to a railway arranged by English (said to narrow gauge railway bus measuring 0.60 meter of spacing of the rails) to supply the face of Aubers and to bring back the casualties of them I found it on the Richebourg website Marina ..... I had never heard of it either ! I just realised I didn't thank Michel for his reply ! ...... Thank you ! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 Thanks, Annie! Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 I noticed in the Times - on the same day that Jessie presented the picture to the church ....... it mentions the unveiling of the Pinner village war memorial ........ I wonder if that was done on purpose ?? .... but "our" Col Rickard isn't included !! http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/pinner.htm Just thoughts ..... Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 2 April , 2007 Share Posted 2 April , 2007 I noticed in the Times - on the same day that Jessie presented the picture to the church ....... it mentions the unveiling of the Pinner village war memorial ........ I wonder if that was done on purpose ?? .... but "our" Col Rickard isn't included !! http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/pinner.htm Just thoughts ..... Annie I did a spot check on some names on Pinner War Memorial list. Reason Rickard is probably not there is he may not have been born in Pinner, I have not been able to trace his birth place though. Perhaps it was his wife Jessie Louisa Rickard who may have had an association with the village of Pinner. Sullivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 4 April , 2007 Share Posted 4 April , 2007 "Michel, do you know of this written history of La Couture, and was it ever discovered the Calvary existed." James, Of course I know of this written history of La Couture, it is my friend Michel CORBEIL, who wrote it ! I will go soon talk to him and bring back the book at home. Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 4 April , 2007 Share Posted 4 April , 2007 Of course I know of this written history of La Couture, it is my friend Michel CORBEIL, who wrote it ! Michel Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 5 April , 2007 Share Posted 5 April , 2007 "Michel, do you know of this written history of La Couture, and was it ever discovered the Calvary existed." James, Of course I know of this written history of La Couture, it is my friend Michel CORBEIL, who wrote it ! I will go soon talk to him and bring back the book at home. Michel Michel, Thank you for replying, I am interested to see if you find any reference to a Calvary near the location that you photographed. I have a very specific reason for knowing this, but until I do find out, it would be premature of me to float a 'theory' about the Matania painting. I am unable to find the source of the information that is in the history of the Royal Munster Fusiliers - "broken shrine enclosing a crucifix". I have a request in at the National Archives for copy of the 2nd battalion war diary for 8th and 9th May 1915, but I am not confident we will learn more than we know now, it's worth a try though. What really puzzles me is there are no reports that I have found to date in the London Times on the prelude to the battle of 9th May 1915. I fully expected some comment in light of Matania's painting to have been printed later, but none so far, I will keep looking. Would it be possible for you to mark the location of the Chapelle N.D. de Seez on a Google earth map, I am presently plotting the approximate positions of the troops on a Google Earth map prior to the battle of Aubers Ridge on 9th May 1915. Trusting you can help. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 April , 2007 Share Posted 9 April , 2007 I received 2 emails regarding "our painting " ....... the RACD told me to get in touch with MOD .... looks like we may be going around in circles ! .... I'm not able to follow these up at this time .... but if anybody else would like to give it "a go" ....... please do ! Annie Thank you for your enquiry regarding the painting, 'Last Absolution of the Munsters' by Fortunino Mantana. The Ministry of Defence Art Collection does not hold this particular piece but I believe I can point you in the right direction. Within your research it states ownership by the Royal Army Chaplains Department, this department is independent of the MOD Art Collection and still exists and resides within Amport House, Andover. The Museum houses the archives and historical relics of the Royal Army Chaplains’. Displays include poignant Far East POW items, Church silver and furnishings, uniforms and the stories of the four Chaplains who have been awarded the Victoria Cross. Below are the contact details. I hope this reply is of help and best wishes with your further research. Yours faithfully Mr Patrick Hearne MOD Art Collection G.I.50 Main Building Whitehall SW1A 2HB 0207 2187875 patrick.hearne904@mod.uk Contact: The Curator, Mr David Blake Museum of Army Chaplaincy Amport House Amport ANDOVER Hants, SP11 8BG. Tel: 01264 773144 x 4248 Open Monday – Friday 0900 – 1700 Further to my colleague Patrick’s advice, I have another line of enquiry that may be of use. The picture was published in The Sphere on 27th November 1916 and there may be some written information with the image in the magazine. The British Library should hold a copy of The Sphere and contact details can be found at the bottom of the link. http://www.bl.uk/collections/warfare1.html I hope this information proves helpful to you. Best wishes, Charlotte Crooks Assistant Librarian MOD INFORMATION CENTRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 9 April , 2007 Share Posted 9 April , 2007 The image at the British Library link is a print similar to the one I have in my collection. I am reasonably sure that the text underneath the middle of the print reads the same as mine - "Misereatur Vestri Omnipotens Deus" The Last General Absolution of The Munsters's at Rue du Bois. From a painting by F. Matania. There is other text lower left and right on the BL print but not on mine. Extract from bottom of my print. Sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 10 April , 2007 Share Posted 10 April , 2007 I did a spot check on some names on Pinner War Memorial list. Reason Rickard is probably not there is he may not have been born in Pinner, I have not been able to trace his birth place though. Perhaps it was his wife Jessie Louisa Rickard who may have had an association with the village of Pinner. Sullivan From Free BMD: June quarter 1873 Rickard Victo George H Alverstoke 2b 511 ++ Alverstoke is same as Gosport district - and 1881 census shows: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Geo. P. RICKARD Head M Male 38 Dublin Civil Service Senior Clerk Admiralty Caroline RICKARD Wife M Female 30 London, London, Middlesex, England Mabel RICKARD Daur U Female 10 Gosport, Hampshire, England Victor RICKARD Son Male 8 Gosport, Hampshire, England Cecil R. RICKARD Son Male 5 Hong-Kong (B S), China Mary CARNE Servant U Female 29 Menheniot, Cornwall, England Domestic Servant Ann HAWKINS Servant U Female 21 Calstock, Cornwall, England Domestic Servant -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 8 Alton Terrace Census Place Plymouth St Andrew, Devon, England Family History Library Film 1341529 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Now, this ties in nicely with marriage to Jessie Louisa Ackland (her first married name): Dec Qtr 1908 ACKLAND Jessie Louisa Plymouth 5b 659 ++ Also interesting to see the Irish connection with Col Rickard's father being born in Dublin. The family, including Victor, appear to be still in Plymouth per the 1891 census. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 10 April , 2007 Share Posted 10 April , 2007 Further to my previous posting - Regarding Col Rickard's wife, Jessie Louisa (I was trying to find any Pinner connection) - whilst I cannot find her birth details, I have found that her parents were married in Bakewell, Derbys, but two other of her sisters were both born in Dublin. So, no Pinner connection so far, but Irish connections for both Col Rickard (his father) and for his wife (as above). Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 10 April , 2007 Share Posted 10 April , 2007 From Free BMD: June quarter 1873 Rickard Victo George H Alverstoke 2b 511 ++ [snip] Also interesting to see the Irish connection with Col Rickard's father being born in Dublin. The family, including Victor, appear to be still in Plymouth per the 1891 census. Ian Ian, Great research and and very informative information about Lieut.-Col Rickard. Plymouth was my hometown (1938-1959) then I came to Australia. The Munster Fusiliers were frequently posted there to barracks at Crownhill just on the city outskirts. I am hoping an acquaintance visiting NA at Kew will be able to turn up some information on movement of the 2nd battalion for the period 7th-8th May 1915. But all hinges what is in the War Diary for that time period. Based on the positions of troops battle formation prior to the 9th May, the location that Michel has identified makes sense, it was just over 2 Km away from the actual battle zone. Before committing myself any further to a theory about the painting - "Last Absolution ", more information is needed and hopefully I may have it in a few days. Sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 10 April , 2007 Share Posted 10 April , 2007 By the time of Lieut.-Col. Rickard's death, he had clocked up nearly 23 years of service with the Munster Fusiliers. Sullivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 11 April , 2007 Share Posted 11 April , 2007 And further on the Irish connection of Col Rickard's wife (or her family). It seems her father, Rev Courtenay Moore, was a rector in Ireland. Taken from website:http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/E900030/text003.html (on the subject of Irish Home Rule): Here is first a letter addressed to the Guardian of 30th June, 1909, by the Rev. Canon Courtenay Moore, rector of Mitchelstown, Co. Cork, replying to another in the previous issue. It will be observed that Canon Moore's instances are all drawn from one parish, which differs in no respect from the rest of the country, save perhaps in the generous candour of its rector:— +++ OK, I know it is getting a bit off topic, but I felt it all adds to our greater knowledge of the picture and the subsequent history of the shrine/calvary involving Rickard's widow. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 11 April , 2007 Share Posted 11 April , 2007 And further on the Irish connection of Col Rickard's wife (or her family). It seems her father, Rev Courtenay Moore, was a rector in Ireland. Taken from website:http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/E900030/text003.html (on the subject of Irish Home Rule): [snip] +++ OK, I know it is getting a bit off topic, but I felt it all adds to our greater knowledge of the picture and the subsequent history of the shrine/calvary involving Rickard's widow. Ian Ian, Many thanks for the link and comment. Collectively we are building a small profile of people associated with the Last Absolution, but in doing so it's impossible at times to keep 100 percent within a topic and I support your post. I hope to have some details from the War Diary for the 2nd battalion Munster Fusiliers in a few days. The documents are not on film and there re no pdf's, so I hope they are reasonably readable. I have asked the person visiting Kew to concentrate on the dates 7th, 8th and depending on number of pages for the 9th. Also Michel has been helping me out to clear up a few facts. I hope to post further details after I obtain extracts from the War Diary. Cheers, Sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 13 April , 2007 Share Posted 13 April , 2007 I now have photographic copies of the 2nd battalion Munster Fusiliers War Diary covering the date 7th to 8th May 1915 plus a few other pages. I need to transcribe the text but there is no revealing information other than Father Gleeson gave absolution while they were on the march to Rue Du Bois. More to be posted about this. Sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivan Posted 15 April , 2007 Share Posted 15 April , 2007 Transcript of the 2nd battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers War Diary. Covering dates 1st May 1915 to 8th May 1915. War Diary National Archives Reference Title: - “95/1279 - 3 Infantry Brigade: 2 Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers 1 DIVISION PART I: FRANCE, BELGIUM AND GERMANY War Office: First World War and Army of Occupation War Diaries The National Archives, Kew. Date range: 1914 - 1918. War Diary summary page. "La Tombe Willot May 1st. Battn in billets La Tombe CO’s Rest. [text after La Tombe difficult to read but I think it means companies at rest] May 2nd. Captain Jeffares R.I.Rifles to hospital. Draft of 25 other ranks reported their arrival. 3rd To 7th. Training, routemarching, battalion practice leaving trenches and assaulting. 8th . Left billets at 7.15pm on the road at the first halt Father Gleeson gave absolution. 9th. Battalion relieved the Coldstream Guards in D5 line of trenches preparatory to assaulting German trenches. Relieves completed without casualties at 12 midnight. The attack (see appendix A) Brigadier Genl. Davies, told me personally twice during the day that he considered the regiment had behaved very gallantly and done all that could be done. Marched back to La Tombe Willot old billets arriving there 10.30pm." Reference to appendix 'A', will post transcript later when completed. I was hoping to get an idea of the route taken to Rue Du Bois, however the summary not very informative on that matter. The appendix is signed by Captain T.W. Filgate (Adjutant), so I assume the summary was also written by him as well. Captain Filgate died of wounds received on the 29 September 1915 in the Loos sector. The above photo image was obtained for me courtesy of J. Trafford of England. Sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 15 April , 2007 Share Posted 15 April , 2007 Beautifull James ! You know, there are alas many ways to go at "la rue du bois" from "la Tombe Willot" even with the church of La Couture for bench mark. It is even possible they passed on the little road in front of my house ! Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 15 April , 2007 Share Posted 15 April , 2007 James .... I wonder if this could be the Captain ?? Medal card of Jeffares, R T Royal Irish Rifles Captain 1914-1920 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fg/ Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 15 April , 2007 Share Posted 15 April , 2007 Just a thought ... I wonder if this John Francis is any relation to "our" Father Gleeson ? Medal card of Gleeson, John Francis 1846 Royal Munster Fusiliers Acting Serjeant Royal Munster Fusiliers Honorary Lieutenant Royal Munster Fusiliers Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers Second Lieutenant Date 1914-1920 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fh/ Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean G Posted 15 April , 2007 Share Posted 15 April , 2007 Father Gleeson was my Grand Uncle. I have some information regarding his death, his family, a print of the painting and probably the last letter that he ever wrote in late May, 1959. Sean G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now