Jane Hayward Posted 25 February Author Share Posted 25 February This doesn't end for me until I track down the dog's name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February 10 hours ago, PRC said: Now you're just being silly Bob. Everyone knows you don't number the dogs - that's what D is for Cheers, Peter Is that a dog or a soldier in one of those goatskin coats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February Hopefully I'm not being disparaging regarding Grandma Harper's naming of the men, assuming it is her hand? Photo 2 There is Cleary, his number has been erased but was 919? Below him is Hurd 9190 East Yorks. There is a Bernard Cleary 9190 East Yorks, wounded Feb 1915, Casualty List and an MIC. No such luck with Hurd so far. Seems an unlikely coincidence that number and unit apply to two different men in sequence of the photo. Photo 3. The same may apply to Pendleton King's Liverpool and Pennington Kings Liverpool, where the latter now seems more likely to be South Lancs. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February Ah. There is a F W Hurd 9901 Devons on casualty list reported Jan 1915. MIC shows Frederick W Hurd, later 12798 of APC. Not sure what unit APC is. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 25 February Admin Share Posted 25 February 12 minutes ago, TEW said: MIC shows Frederick W Hurd, later 12798 of APC. Not sure what unit APC is. TEW Army Pay Corps. medal roll shows 3rd Devonshire entered theatre 11.12.14 so in all probability a Special Reserve enlistment posted to 1st or 2nd Bn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February 1 hour ago, charlie962 said: Is that a dog or a soldier in one of those goatskin coats? Thanks to your insight I think one of the Great Mysteries of WW1 has been solved. Surely, some staff officer at the War Office reasoned in the autumn of 1914, even the beastly Germans wouldn't shoot a dog out of hand. So disguise our brave Tommies accordingly under cover of calling them goatskins coats, (think 'tanks" in 1916), and by the time Fritz became aware it would be too late - next stop the lamposts of Berlin! No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owners. Picture sources [a] Ethels photos soldier in fur courtesy Flickr account owner Carol https://www.flickr.com/photos/71256895@N00/2824440605/in/photolist-5izZMP/ [b] Official goat-skin under coats for British soldiers sourced media storehouse https://www.mediastorehouse.co.uk/mary-evans-prints-online/wwi-soldiers/official-goat-skin-coats-british-soldiers-4393516.html 1 hour ago, Jane Hayward said: This doesn't end for me until I track down the dog's name! For now I suggest we give it an interim name of "Charlie" Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February 2 hours ago, charlie962 said: Given the way the names are written on the back could you possibly number right to left, starting with the front row ? Hopefully this is what you mean - No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owner. Just one thought but would it be an idea to start picture 2 at number 53 - gets round the issue of having, i.e. number 5 on picture 1, (1/5), number 5 on picture 2, (2/5) and and number 5 on picture 3, (3/5) like a variation of the problem of sorting out men belonging to Territorial Force infantry battalions Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Hayward Posted 25 February Author Share Posted 25 February (edited) Major Kelly seems likely to be the major on staff. A concert held by the soldiers at Desford in May 1915 names him. Plus Rev Townsend is Rev W Townsend. There's a Barnes performing but not recognising any other names immediately. From the Leicester Evening Mail, 21 May 1915. Edited 25 February by Jane Hayward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dink999 Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February 4 minutes ago, Jane Hayward said: Major Kelly seems likely to be the major on staff. Jane, I’ve also been looking at the newspapers and had come up with the same thought. If so, he is Major Thomas William Gordon Kelly. He features in the papers with his numerous first names & initials. He is on the 1911 census as a resident of Desford Grange and is the Medical Officer of Health. Aged 45 born Kingstown, Ireland. This Medical obituary may help:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Hayward Posted 25 February Author Share Posted 25 February 14 minutes ago, dink999 said: Jane, I’ve also been looking at the newspapers and had come up with the same thought. If so, he is Major Thomas William Gordon Kelly. He features in the papers with his numerous first names & initials. He is on the 1911 census as a resident of Desford Grange and is the Medical Officer of Health. Aged 45 born Kingstown, Ireland. This Medical obituary may help:- Brilliant. He crops up at other concerts and committees as Major T Gordon Kelly, so it must be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Small bits of the puzzle. Photo 3 and back to 16135 Pennington again I'm afraid. He was evacuated to the UK 5/9/15. He then shows up on List H 1265 as transferring from North Evington, Leicester to the Royal Infirmary, Leicester dated 6/9/15. This woukd pre-date his tinme at Desford. The list does have his number as 16125 but mistakes are common place on these lists. I'm fairly sure Bruder, Wrigley, Toft and Morgan are not named on any reverse. I'm looking out for more! TEW Image courtesy of FMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February On 25/02/2024 at 12:36, PRC said: For now I suggest we give it an interim name of "Charlie" I may be barking but that is going a bit far On 25/02/2024 at 13:25, PRC said: Hopefully this is what you mean - No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owner. Just one thought but would it be an idea to start picture 2 at number 53 - gets round the issue of having, i.e. number 5 on picture 1, (1/5), number 5 on picture 2, (2/5) and and number 5 on picture 3, (3/5) like a variation of the problem of sorting out men belonging to Territorial Force infantry battalions Cheers, Peter Yes. Thankyou. I agree about numbering subsequent photos by continuing the series. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Picture 2 numbered and carrying on the numbering sequence from bottom right to top left. As is my normal practice I also did a little bit of tidying up so that the numbers didn't end up drawing attention to a distracting blemish, so as always any errors are entirely mine. However while doing that I noticed a similar sized light colour patch in roughly the same area on a few individuals that didn't conform to any blemish pattern I could discern. So I've undone the couple I had already blotted out and left them for others to decide. The relevant individuals are 58, 63, 67, 70, 73*, 75, 77, 78, 84, 85, 88, 97, 98, and 99. Perhaps there had been some sort of money-raising event, possibly led by the three civilians at the back who all appear to be sporting the badge \ pin - if that is what it is. Might explain why they appear in a variety of locations on the convalescing soldiers. * May be part of a medal ribbon. No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owner. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 26 February Admin Share Posted 26 February (edited) @Jane Hayward, @dink999 great finds for Major Kelly. Major Thomas William Gordon Kelly RAMC Picture No's; 20, 66, 117. From searches on ancestry/UK and Ireland medical Registers it seems that he was residing in Ireland at I, Albert Terrace, Crofton Road, Kingstown in 1888 and1889. From the 1891 UK census, he is residing in Desford at 86 Main Road, with his sister Anna Ross Kelly, born 1870 in Ireland and Cora Gregory (servant) born 1869 Desford. Cora is the Daughter of William and Alice Gregory. William is a boot maker and appears in the 1892 Wrights Directory as a Boot Maker, Desford. An point I must make here, is that Cora is a distant relative in my own family. Via my Grandads (Pte 4152 1/5th Leicesters) Uncle Oliver Chapman. (Pte 25072 1/5th Leicesters.) 'Thomas Gordon Kelly MD Surgeon' is also listed in the 1892 Wrights Directory. Next appearance of T W G Kelly is in every UK and Ireland Medical journal from 1890 until 1943 residing in Desford. 0n 15th August 1891 Thomas marries Emily Annie Carrington. Eldest daughter of the late William Carrington of Croxden Abbey, Staffordshire. They are married at Ratby, Leicestershire. Screen shot courtesy of Fold 3. 1901 England census, Thomas (Doctor Medicine /Captain Militia) and Emily are residing in Desford with two servants, Ada Neal (Kitchen Maid) born 1886 Desford Leics and Eliza Abell (Housemaid) born 1881 Newbold Verdon, Leics. 1911 England census, Thomas and Emily are still residing in Desford, they have two servants, Dorothy Bennett born 1891 Desfors Leics and Florence Towers born 1892 Nebold Verdon Leics. From what I could find of Thomas military career. No sight of him on Harts lists that I can see yet but this from Fold 3. British Army Lists October 1902. Screenshot courtesy of Fold 3 One more courtesy of Fold 3. British Army Lists November 1914. From Ancestry; Surgeon Captain Kelly TWG was awarded the QSAM with a clasp for Cape Colony. Issued 1st April 1901. Emily Annie Kelly ne Carrington died 16th October 1937. Desford She is buried in St Martins Church yard Desford. Thomas and Emily live at Desford Grange from I believe 1901 until 1926, then their address in the Medical journal changes to Manor Cottage, Desford. Edit here 28th Feb 2024; One more for you @Jane Hayward Dr Kelly and Family, screenshot courtesy of https://www.desfordheritage.org/brief-history There are a number of interesting pictures on the web site. I have to stop here just now. Thomas is still at Manor Cottage in 1939 but Emily has died. Cheers to all, Bob. PS, Inspired by @PRC aka Peter, thanks :-) Edited 28 February by Bob Davies to add a ps and some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February The shennanigans on Picture 3 are all to do with feathers, (121 & 135) and button holes and rosettes (101, 108 & 120). No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owner. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Hayward Posted 26 February Author Share Posted 26 February (edited) The Grange is a lovely looking building. I can see the Major striding out of the front door on his way to Desford Hall: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1074074 Edited 26 February by Jane Hayward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Thomas Gordon Kelly Matron Havers And is this Sister Harper? No new IP is claimed for any of the above montages, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owner. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Hayward Posted 26 February Author Share Posted 26 February Yes, Peter, that's my grandmother Sister Harper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 26 February Admin Share Posted 26 February Desford Hall, Picture 3. The Rev W Townshend 119. While wandering through Desford and surrounding areas on line, looking for Dogs called Charlie and Reverends, I came across these. No Dogs. Kellys Directory 1916. Townshend Rev William M.A. Kirkby Mallory, Hinkley. and this, screenshot Courtesy of IWM. https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/37520 The Reverend William Dynevor Thomas B.A. St Davids Colledge, Lampeter was at St Martins Church Desford for this period. Kirkby Mallory is not that far from Desford. About three and a half miles by road. So far I am drawing a blank on census or other forms, possibly because The Reverend is never at home, always out on his rounds. Regards, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Hayward Posted 27 February Author Share Posted 27 February (edited) I think this might be him, Bob. Thurlaston is three miles away. I also found a report of a local cricket match that mentioned a Rev W Townsend as an ex county cricketer, but I suspect that's a red herring! Edited 27 February by Jane Hayward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 27 February Admin Share Posted 27 February (edited) 2 hours ago, Jane Hayward said: I think this might be him, Bob. Thurlaston is three miles away. I also found a report of a local cricket match that mentioned a Rev W Townsend as an ex county cricketer, but I suspect that's a red herring! Thanks Jane, just having a quick look around comes up with a book telling us of his 'induction' Dec 9th 1880. https://archive.org/details/historythurlast00hulmgoog/page/n104/mode/2up?q=Townshend and the Cricket connection courtesy of; Association of Cricket Statisticians. TOWNSHEND, William 33390 born 16 November 1849 Sehore, Central India (now Madhya Pradesh), India died 19 July 1923 Kirkby Mallory, Leicestershire Ed: Rossall S; Brasenose College RHB Oxford University 1870-72 Blue all three years 14 matches 399 runs @ 15.96, HS 55 6 catches Did not bowl First-class career record 1870-74 16 matches 460 runs @ 15.86, HS 55 6 catches Did not bowl Played for Cheshire 1866-78, Denbighshire 1867, Shropshire 1869, Herefordshire 1879, and Leicestershire (pre first-class) 1881-85 Entered the Church of England. Rector of Thurlaston, Leicestershire 1880-1908, and of Kirkby Mallory 1908-23. Edited 27 February by Bob Davies to play another ball.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 27 February Share Posted 27 February No. 81, image 2. Same man I'm sure in photo 6 which has no names on the reverse. Right arm in sling in both photos. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Hayward Posted 27 February Author Share Posted 27 February 1 hour ago, Bob Davies said: Thanks Jane, just having a quick look around comes up with a book telling us of his 'induction' Dec 9th 1880. Oh, so the cricketing connection was right. And born in India. So interesting. I'm starting to visualise the TV period drama about all of this! 12 minutes ago, TEW said: No. 81, image 2. Same man I'm sure in photo 6 which has no names on the reverse. Right arm in sling in both photos. TEW Definitely. What a great spot. Overlapping timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 27 February Share Posted 27 February I'm trying to match No. 81 to a name on the rear. Still having problems with that I think! Is he 2422 Dalby, R Hussars. If so he is Charles H Dalby 2422 10th Hussars. Discharged 4/4/15 so would not be in uniform after that date. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 February Share Posted 27 February (edited) 20 minutes ago, TEW said: I'm trying to match No. 81 to a name on the rear. Still having problems with that I think! Is he 2422 Dalby, R Hussars. If so he is Charles H Dalby 2422 10th Hussars. Discharged 4/4/15 so would not be in uniform after that date. TEW The cap badge fits and the arm in sling chimes with a discharge. Edited 27 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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