Wounded solders at Desford

[Jane Hayward]

Is HH Woolley one of the moustached men in a suit in the pics? He is head the Saturday Hospital Society so chief fundraiser for Desford and was named as in the audience at a lot of the concerts. This info is from Radical Leicester at nednewitt.com

Edited 2 April by Jane Hayward

[PRC]

4 hours ago, Jane Hayward said:

Is HH Woolley one of the moustached men in a suit in the pics?

Or is he perhaps an older version of this man?

No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owners.

Cheers,
Peter

[Jane Hayward]

Yes, I think that's the same man, don't you? He appears in the audience of every Desford entertainment and a fair few outings so he must have been a constant presence there.

[PRC]

39 minutes ago, Jane Hayward said:

Yes, I think that's the same man, don't you?

I think it's a very high probability and would make sense of the group shown in picture 14.

I don't think he is present in any of the pre-war \ early war pictures though - did you have a candidate in mind?

Cheers,
Peter

[Jane Hayward]

I don't see any more men other than inmates in the other pictures, I don't think. 

[Jane Hayward]

The Aberdeen Press and Journal, Friday 25 June, reported both 128 Budge and 144 Hallum as wounded members of C Company (Wick, Thurso and Lybster) in the same article under the headline 5th Seaforths Losses - Territorials Heavy Casualties.

Edited 5 April by Jane Hayward

[Jane Hayward]

142 Quilter, 105 Cook and 133 Hole all seem to have been on a hospital train from Dover to Nottingham on 24 January 1915, as reported in the Nottingham Journal on 25 January; most of the soldiers on board were taken to Nottingham General Hospital. No numbers given but the names, initials and regiments are right. Cook's dates are spot on. 

Edited to say: I chatted with one of 142 Quilter's family on another site, who found a record of him being put onto a hospital train with frostbite.

Edited 11 April by Jane Hayward

[PRC]

On 29/02/2024 at 13:20, Jane Hayward said:

75 William Thomas Dickens (Pte), 6004, 1st (1915) and 2nd King's Royal Rifle Corps (also L/Corp 41275 Rifle Brigade). Disembarked in France 13 August 1814 serving with the 2nd Battalion. A local paper records him arriving in Leicester "slightly wounded" on a hospital train on 11 May 1915.

6004 Private W. Dickens appears amongst the wounded of the 2^nd Battalion Kings Royal Rifles Corps in the Official Casualty List in the edition of The Times dated June 14^th 1915. The only Other Ranks soldier of the 2^nd Battalion on the same list recorded as Killed is 6557 Private C.W. Medley.

6557 Rifleman Charles William Medley died on the 9^th May 1915 while serving in France according to his entry on CWGC. SDGW records him as Killed in Action.

The 2^nd Battalion was part of the 1^st Division, which was involved in the Battle of Aubers on that day. CWGC shows 89 fatalities for the 2^nd Battalion on the 9^th May 1915.

On 29/02/2024 at 13:20, Jane Hayward said:

76 Harry Pocock, 8291, King's Royal Rifle Corps. Enlisted in 1907. and spent time in Crete and India before the war. Posted to France on 20 December 1914. He was sent home on 13 May 1915 with a "slight" gunshot wound to the back of his shoulder. A local newspaper recorded him arriving in Leicester on a hospital train "slightly wounded" that night. He stayed in England until 8 December 1915. Pocock was killed in action on 10 April 1917. 

8291 Private H.J. Pocock appears amongst the wounded of the 3^rd Battalion in the Official Casualty List in the edition of The Times dated June 14, 1915. The same list has the following men of the 3^rd Battalion recorded as died.
9102 Private F. Armer Rifleman Frederick Armer died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
8289 Corporal W.H. Beckett. Corporal William Henry Beckett died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
5356 Private J. Berry. Rifleman John Berry died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
10613 Private A.G. Betsworth. Rifleman Arthur George Betsworth died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
8413 Private F.W. Chappell. Rifleman Frederick Woolgar Chappell died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
8719 Private S. Cole. Rifleman Samuel Ernest Cole died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
1643 Private P. Comez. Rifleman Philip Ronald Gomez died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
8731 Private W. Cooper. Rifleman William Henry Cooper died 9^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
1100 Private J.T. Cox. Rifleman John Thomas Cox died 9^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
8200 Private J. Dodd. Rifleman James William Dodd died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
4627 Lance-Corporal B. Dudley. Lance-Corporal Benjamin Dudley died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
9927 Private C. Grimsdale. Rifleman Charles Grimsdale died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
8604 Private R. Harman. Rifleman Richard Harman died 9^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
12008 Private H. Hollows. Rifleman Harry Hollows died 10^th May 1915, Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.
and others

The 3^rd Battalion, Kings Royal Rifle Corps, were part of 27^th Division, which was involved in the Battle of Frezenberg (8-13 May 1915) at that time.

On 29/02/2024 at 13:20, Jane Hayward said:

77 Richard Burnell (Pte) 11039, The King's (Liverpool) Regiment (also 591280 Labour Corps. Entered France 9 February 1915. A local newspaper recorded him arriving in Leicester "slightly wounded" on a hospital train on 19 May 1915. Transferred to Class Z on 3 April 1919

11039 Private R. Burnell appears amongst a very long list of the wounded of the 1^st Battalion in the Official Casualty List in the edition of The Times dated June 16, 1915. There are no fatalities of the Battalion in the same list.

On 29/02/2024 at 13:20, Jane Hayward said:

79 George W Poland (L/Corp), 8616, The King's (Liverpool) Regiment.

George William Poland. (Medal Roll).

On 29/02/2024 at 13:20, Jane Hayward said:

83 J Tilbury, 54809, Royal Engineers. Disembarked 23 October 1914. His work was connected with railways. 

John Tilbury. (MiC). Nothing obvious in the way of Official Casualty Lists. MiC shows him ending the war as an officer. On Page 3740 Supplement to the London Gazette, 19 April 1917 Company Sergeant Major John Tilbury R.E. was listed to now be a Temporary Lieutenant on the General List with effect from the 17^th March 1917.
The January 1918 British Army Montly List, (page 59b) shows him as a Railway Transport Officer and so graded as a Staff Lieutenant, 2^nd Class. Seniority was from the 17^th March 1917. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123132501

As an officer John had to apply for his medals. When he applied in November 1919 for his 1914 Star he gave a contact address of 34 Wolseley Road, St. Helens, Lancashire. He subsequently asked for his Victory Medal and British War Medal in June 1920, by which time the address had changed to Newlyn, Prescot Road, St. Helens, Lancashire.

On 29/02/2024 at 13:20, Jane Hayward said:

87 R McNeil (Pte), 1560, Highland Division. A local newspaper reported that Pte R McNeil of the 4th Cameron Highlanders arrived in Leicester "slightly wounded" on a hospital train on 19 May 1915. At this time his battalion was with the 21st Division and fought at the Battle of Festubert (15-25 May 1915).

Roderick McNeil. (MiC). The Official Casualty List that appeared in the edition of The Times dated June 15,1915 has 1560 Private R. McNeil amongst a long list of the wounded of the 4^th Battalion Cameron Highlanders, (T.F.).
Deaths listed for the 4^th Battalion include:-
2041 Corporal G. Anderson. Corporal George Anderson died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2511 Private J. Baker. Private James Baker died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2138 Private G. Bowles. Private Geoffrey Bowles died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2048 Private H.F. Buckly. Private Harry Fisher Buckby died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
1761 Private H. Carmichael. Private Hugh Carmichael died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2182 Private A.H. Clark. Private Alexander Henry Clarke died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2424 Private E. Dalton. Private Edward Dalton died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
1890 Private J.D. Davidson. Private James Donald Donaldson died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2707 Private J.J. Donald.
2131 Private S.E. Hands. Private Sidney Ernest Hands died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2954 Private H. Hendry. Private Henry Hendry died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
1215 Sergeant J. McDonald. Sergeant James A. MacDonald died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
1239 Private J. MacFarlane.  Private John MacFarlane died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2445 Private J. Mackintosh. Private John Mackintosh died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
776 Lance-Corporal A. MacLachlan. Lance Corporal Angus McLachlan died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
1736 Private H. Macrae. Private Hugh Macrae died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2165 Lance Corporal D.C. Melven. Lance Corporal Donald Clark Melven died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
402 Company Sergeant Major W. Ross.Company Sergeant Major William Ross died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2282 Private W. Sim. Private William Sim died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
175 Corporal C. Sinclair. Corporal Charles Sinclair died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
1727 Private D. Smith.  Private Duncan Smith died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
2222 Private W. H. Whittingham. Private William H. Whittingham died 17^th May 1915, Le Touret Memorial.
CWGC records 55 deaths of the Battalion on the 17^th May 1915.

On 29/02/2024 at 13:20, Jane Hayward said:

90 Herbert Westacott, 42418 Canada. Canada Personnel Records show that he was woundedon 28 May 1915 . A Leicester newspaper recorded his arrival in town on a hospital train on 28 May - "slightly wounded". His records show he was  treated at the 5th Northern General Hospital, Leicester on 28 May and on 6 June was recorded as at Evington Hospital (same hospital) being treated for "GSW shrapnel thigh". He was moved to Monks Horton Canadian Convalescent Hospital in Kent on 24 July 1915. The following year, Westacott married Leicestershire girl Bertha Cooper at Enderby, as reported in the Leicester Evening Mail in an article dated 23 February 1916, which mentions that he was wounded at Ypres and spent part of his convalescence at Desford. He was wounded and gassed, and at No 5 General Hospital Rouen on 6 September 1917, and discharged on 19 October 1917.

Left England for France 11^th February 1915.
Posted to 3^rd Field Artillery Brigade, Canadian Field Artillery

1^st May 1915. Wounded at Ypres on duty. (Table II Admissions to Hospital for Monks Horton & Medical Case Sheet)
3^rd May 1915. Admitted No.14 General Hospital, Wimereux with Scabies severe.(? – suspect that’s an error on the part of the clerk)
28^th May 1915. Admitted 5^th Northern General Hospital, Leicester, Wounded. G.S.W. Shrapnel Left Thigh without Fracture. Came under the treatment of that hospital, (which could include outstation convalescence), until the 31^st July 1915.

In a note dated 30^th July 1915 at Desford he is recorded as “Discharged sick furlough” by a Major Kelly, RAMC.

 

Image courtesy Library and Archives Canada.

(On hs final discharge document in 1919 a distinguishing feature is listed as scar left leg). He entered the Canadian Convalescent Hospital from the same date of 31^st July 1915.

Returned to France 1^st December 1915, initially 1^st Divisional Ammunition Column. Transferred back to 3^rd Brigade C.F.A. 13^th December 1915. Granted 8 days leave 19^th February 1916.

Married 22^nd February 1916. Serving with the 12^th Battery, 3^rd Field Artillery Brigade, Canadian Field Artillery by the time of his marriage.

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=306632

A Nominal Roll of the 3^rd Field Artillery Brigade shows him under 8^th Battery, but doesn’t make clear if this is the first, last, most significant, etc, etc, sub-unit that he served with. https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=fonandcol&IdNumber=5713939&q=3rd%20Field%20Artillery%20Brigade&ecopy=e011087941

There was nothing specific in the Brigade War Diary for May 1915, which includes separate reports from each Battery and the Divisional Ammunition Column. https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=fonandcol&IdNumber=2004750&q=3rd%20Field%20Artillery%20Brigade%20War%20Diary&ecopy=e001150010

Cheers,
Peter

 

Edited 11 April by PRC
Formatting

[Jane Hayward]

I will add this info into their 'bios', Peter. That's the first time I've seen Major Kelly's written input at all, I think. I am sure I saw Tilbury on one of the hospital train lists but didn't register him at the time.

I was reading a little more about Joseph Fisher, who committed suicide at Desford in March 1916. His medical info is with National Archives, and it says he was transferred to Desford on 7 January 1916 nearly two months after an operation to remove a rib. He's not in Photo 1, and there are no unnamed men in the photo, so we can say it was taken before the 7th, I suppose.

[Jane Hayward]

No 91 Budd/Barnes, 'the deserter's medals auctioned ; https://curator.org/item/66b9f318690f44914c854b909c021379