BBC2 'The Somme 1916: From Both Sides of the Wire'

[Phil Wood]

7 minutes ago, timsanders said:

 

Could some of these academics self-produce or hire a small independent company and publish their works on youtube or a similar medium? It would open the viewing up to a global audience and bypass interfering tv producers.

 

It would also require the academics to come up with the production costs with little hope of them ever being recouped on top os the hundreds of hours of effort needed to put programmes like these together.  I suspect it is more likely to be done by a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs than academics. 

[MartH]

End of first Episode, With thanks to, included, Detlef Siebert.

 

 

[egbert]

Thanks. He is a UK based producer and film director working for the BBC, specialized on Nazi documentaries. I guess when he produces himself he calls for a country specific advisor? But anyway, I guess that`s the answer.

[SiegeGunner]

Detlef wrote and directed an excellent programme for the Somme Centenary for BBC Northern Ireland.  Unfortunately it no longer seems to be available on the iPlayer.

[SiegeGunner]

5 hours ago, egbert said:

I am very sure that Mick does the best translations, Peter is a gifted researcher in German archives and Ralph knows a lot of German military stuff. But none of them can substitute a German national consultant knowing German peculiar aspects on cultural aspects, thinking, gestures, articulation, interpretations, military context etc etc to make the documentation as authentic as possible.

 

Egbert,

 

Peter is accompanied on his visits to German archives by Dr Claudia Stumpf Condry, a German specialist in archival research, who has worked with him for many years.  She assists in the evaluation of material, advises on the German context and makes ad hoc translations on the spot to elucidate the content of documents, helping Peter to select material to send to me for full translation.

 

Mick

[Phil Wood]

4 hours ago, SiegeGunner said:

Detlef wrote and directed an excellent programme for the Somme Centenary for BBC Northern Ireland.  Unfortunately it no longer seems to be available on the iPlayer.

 

I saw a couple of enjoyable programmes from BBC NI - Heroes of the Somme looks at seven VCs and Somme Journey sends two men from opposite sides of the sectarian divide to visit the WW1 battlefield. The first does feature one well known academic.

 

 

They are decent programmes and will be available on iPlayer for a few more days. This time next week they'll be gone!

[David Filsell]

Jeremy,

Thanks for your numerous contributions to this thread, they have been highly informative, answered many questions and shown that problems of dealing with fortress BBC are as great  as ever. ( I have my own small and unimportant stories) Equally I greatly enjoyed the Snowballs story. Peter's relaxed and confident delivery was a highlight of the programme. A Snowsleb - any one of the ubiquitous instant expert faces that many of us come to detest - would have been unbearable.

Best regards

david

 

 

 

 

[Scotsmac]

57 minutes ago, Phil Wood said:

 

I saw a couple of enjoyable programmes from BBC NI - Heroes of the Somme looks at seven VCs and Somme Journey sends two men from opposite sides of the sectarian divide to visit the WW1 battlefield. The first does feature one well known academic.

 

 

They are decent programmes and will be available on iPlayer for a few more days. This time next week they'll be gone!

 

I've just finished watching Somme Journey as suggested by Phil Wood above.  What a deeply moving program. Well made and well worth watching.

Best Wishes

Keith

[Phil Wood]

9 hours ago, SiegeGunner said:

Detlef wrote and directed an excellent programme for the Somme Centenary for BBC Northern Ireland.  Unfortunately it no longer seems to be available on the iPlayer.

 

Was it this one?

[SiegeGunner]

No, Phil ... it was called something like 'Voices 1916'.

[simond9x]

This one?  

 

Expires tonight!

[SiegeGunner]

With apologies to Phil, the programme he linked to on YouTube is indeed by Detlef Siebert, but it is not the recent one for BBC Northern Ireland ... which is 'Voices 16', as found by Simon.  Hopefully it will be shown again, but meanwhile the last chance to view it is today.

[Pighills]

I just watched that programme on the link, what a superb programme, thanks for posting.

[Phil Wood]

7 hours ago, SiegeGunner said:

With apologies to Phil, the programme he linked to on YouTube is indeed by Detlef Siebert, but it is not the recent one for BBC Northern Ireland ... which is 'Voices 16', as found by Simon.  Hopefully it will be shown again, but meanwhile the last chance to view it is today.

No apology necessary - I was aware it was by Siebert, and was interested to know if it was the one you were referring to.  It wasn't - c'est la vie.

[Guest]

" Mile after mile of ****-coloured ****-all. "

 

Mike

[IPT]

 

Ooh, I spotted delta in the credits.

[phil andrade]

A defensive victory for Germany ; a German army that emerged with tactics enhanced by dint of its own "learning curve ", with dire consequences for Entente offensives in the following year...all in all, very uncomfortable viewing for those who prefer to espouse the arguments of John Terraine.

 

It worked for me.

 

Others will disagree.

 

One way or another, a brilliant series that was absolutely captivating .

 

Phil

 

 

[Medaler]

Very interesting series.

 

To be honest, and for me at least, the final episode raised a lot more questions than it answered. Probably the most thought provoking thing in the entire centenary schedule so far.

 

" A defensive victory for Germany" - Those 5 words open a whole catering sized can of extra large wriggly worms.

[KIRKY]

Well done to all involved , a great series, some great photography.

Tony

[clk]

As a layman on battles and strategies, I very much enjoyed the whole series. In the final episode, I thought that Peter's take on the reasons for the anomaly between British and German executions for desertion, over the duration of the war, was informative.

 

Regards

Chris 

 

Edit:

Germans using machine gun fire from 3 (?) miles away was also an eye opener.

[KevinBattle]

Changed my view.

I had thought that the Somme was an area forced on the British by the French to force Germany to reduce the pressure on Verdun.

The Somme was chosen as a previously "quiet" sector, presuming therefore that German units would be there recuperating from losses in Ypres and elsewhere.

I'd assumed the Somme difficulties were terrain driven, mountains of frozen waves of soil whereby each hill was flanked by others, that reaching the crest of one simply exposed you to enfilade fire from each side.

What I now realise is that Germany, by having a trained citizen Army was simply ahead in technique in allowing even NCO's to accept command for their patch and defend in the best way they could. Unfortunately, whether by intent or design it revealed fatal flaws from the top right to the bottom in the British command structure.

 

In short, I don't now understand how we "won". If anything it makes me more in awe of the Infantry who continued to attack despite the problems caused by their own commanders, the terrain and the enemy. I'd previously marvelled that these men, principally by 1916 being men off the streets in uniform, being continually willing to "go over the top" only to be decimated (actually probably closer to 9 in 10 not 1 in 10).

 

Now, I simply am in awe.

 

If this series is available for home viewing, I'll get a copy, i simply don't see why/how we won

[phil andrade]

KevinBattle,

 

Your heartfelt reaction to this programme is testimony to how it has succeeeded in shaking things up.

 

I reckon it will stand as a historiograpical landmark .

 

The old orthodoxy of the John Terraine school has been hit hard by this series.

 

Phil

[Alan24]

As a novice, I was quite pleased to learn the correct pronunciation of all those places on the Somme.

 

Alan

[Knotty]

KevinB

Can't agree more with your analysis, even more in awe when Peter suggests that the end of the battle should be in early spring 1917, not Nov 16 which really changes the complexion of whole action.

 

Picking up on a comment by clk, about the German machine guns firing from 3 miles distant, not a weapons man,but I was under the impression that maximum range on ww1 machine guns was around the 4000 yd. mark not the 5000 yd. can someone help me out on that piece of information.

 

Back to the programme, a well put together series certainly thought provoking, and possibly leading to an academic rethink in interpreting the history of the Battle of the Somme. 

 

John

[EastSurrey]

I agree the series was well done, but would not accept all the conclusions. Christopher Duffy, using the same sources 'Through German Eyes-The British & the Somme in 1916', came to a rather more positive view of British performance and morale.

As for execution rates, Ulrich & Ziemann in 'German Soldiers in the Great War-letters & eyewitness accounts', p.142, insist that the official figures (76 deserters sentenced to death, 28 executed) must have been doctored after the War. This was when discussion about the behaviour and performance of the Imperial Army became very politicised, around the 'Stab in the back' legend. They may be correct, but offer no evidence for this and it would take a lot of work to prove it from listing individual cases.

Michael