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Remembered Today:

BBC2 'The Somme 1916: From Both Sides of the Wire'


little bob

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Monday 18th July  9pm   BBC2  The Somme 1916: from Both Sides of the Wire. Part 1 of 3   Repeated Thursday 11.45 pm. 

 

Bob

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I've got my eye on that, thanks

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Topic title edited just to show it is a TV programme.

 

I'll be watching -  Peter Barton and Jeremy have always produced well researched programmes. Looking forward to the first episode.

 

 

Keith

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Looking forward to seeing this. Best of luck  to Jeremy 

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Look forward to viewing.

 

Mike.

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According to Amazon, the series will be released on DVD on July 25.

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Tonight's programme

 

Quote

DOCUMENTARY: The Somme 1916 - From Both Sides of the Wire
On: BBC 2 HD    
Date: Monday 18th July 2016 (30 minutes left)
Time: 21:00 to 22:00 (1 hour long)

First Day - Erster Tag.
Historian Peter Barton explores the events leading up to and on the notoriously bloody first day of the offensive. Walking the battlefield, he explains the failures that led to over 20,000 British deaths. Barton argues that to get a better understanding of events, it is necessary to not only confront what the British did badly but what their enemy did better. The Germans were able to skilfully use the landscape of the Somme to maximize casualties amongst their enemy. And based on research in German archives, Barton shows just how much they knew in advance about Allied plans through captured documents and interrogations of captured British prisoners and deserters who were persistently 'spilling the beans'.
(Stereo, Widescreen, High Definition, Subtitles, Audio Described, Episode 1)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.tv/?p=1&r=7346

Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.

 

 

Next week

 

Quote

DOCUMENTARY: The Somme 1916 - From Both Sides of the Wire
On: BBC 2 HD    
Date: Monday 25th July 2016 (starting in 6 days)
Time: 21:00 to 22:00 (1 hour long)

Defence in Depth - Verteidigung in Der Tiefe.
Historian Peter Barton concentrates on the second phase of the battle, from the middle of July to the middle of September 1916. Barton reveals how an Allied advance on objectives which should have lasted days and weeks took months and resulted in yet more carnage on the Somme battlefield. Whilst British tactics were unvarying, that of their German enemy evolved using the changing landscape of the battlefield. The slowness of the Allied advance during this period is explained by the emergence of new German tactics - defence in depth.
(Stereo, Widescreen, High Definition, Subtitles, Audio Described, Episode 2)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.tv/?p=1&r=7346

Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.

 

 

The third

 

Quote

HISTORY DOCUMENTARY: The Somme 1916: From Both Sides of the Wire
On: BBC 2 HD    
Date: Monday 1st August 2016 (starting in 13 days)
Time: 21:00 to 22:00 (1 hour long)

Documentary exploring the events of the Battle of the Somme.
(Stereo, Widescreen, Subtitles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.tv/?p=1&r=7346

Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.

 

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A good effort but I fell asleep halfway through, always a sure sign that a programme is not holding my attention. This is just a personal view as all posts on this subject matter are, but I dislike presenter-centric documentaries of any kind ( a la Dan Snow) unless the presenter has a screen persona which enables him or her to grab and sustain the viewers attention like the much missed Richard Holmes. Given that this presenter seemed to lack that particular attribute then I would rather that voice-overs were used as they were so successfully in the never bettered BBC series "The Great War". I woke up to see that it ended with the promise of more "revelations" to come in part 2, whatever they may be. Finally a plea for less drone shots please as we are not birds and we view the world from ground level plus most of the viewers would have no idea just what they were looking at, including me.

 

Norman

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Anyone else remember the story of Julius Caeser weeping at the discovery of a statue of Alexander the Great?

 

I suspect that there has been a similar reaction in the Snow household this evening.

 

Regards,

Mike

Edited by Medaler
speeling
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On 16 July 2016 at 18:47, paulgranger said:

According to Amazon, the series will be released on DVD on July 25.

Has now changed to 8 August

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Excellent programme, look forward to the rest of the series

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The Black Day!

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10 hours ago, Medaler said:

Anyone else remember the story of Julius Caeser weeping at the discovery of a statue of Alexander the Great?

 

I suspect that there has been a similar reaction in the Snow household this evening.

 

Regards,

Mike

One doubts it: that would entail a degree of self-doubt.

 

As for the programme in question - I enjoyed it tremendously and for once even the re-enactments didn't grate.

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As is often the case with programmes of this nature, it is necessary to bear in mind the intended audience.  If one had read much of the battle I think it would appear somewhat  superficial. However it was well presented and clearly explained the good and the bad of the first day. I thought more attention should have been given to the artillery aspect;  'duds' were not the only shortcoming. Nevertheless well done BBC!

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Where was Jack Sheldon ?

 

Peter Barton alluded to the " fifteen hundred guns".....I was a little disappointed that he didn't specify that this was for the British sector of attack only, and that the French artillery contained a much more powerful heavy gun component : in fact, a good deal more could - and should - have been made of the French participation.

 

Quibble over....it was first rate stuff if we take into account - as Old Tom points out - the intended audience, and Peter Barton is brilliant at what he does...not one of those narcissistic types that have dominated too many of TV history documentaries of late.

 

Yes : well done BBC !

 

Phil

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An excellent programme and it was good to see so many forum members in the credits (perhaps the two points are related ?!?).

 

Steve

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It is tucked away in my Sky + waiting to be viewed.

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Thoroughly enjoyed the program. Didn't agree with everything presented around the evidence cited but, in my opinion, there were some nuances and fresh opinions which were of value. For instance, I have never considered the implications of a sustained 90-plus percent dud rate from the preliminary barrage...Having read the above guides relating to future content, I may have more of an issue with Episode Two but more than happy to wait and see and also consider the conclusions.

 

Together with Jeremy Banning, Peter is one of the finest fellows I and my family have met in our travels, travails and discussions around operational military history and I applaud his dedication. Well done, sir.

 

Cheers,

Simon

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I thought it was outstanding, the high level camera work was excellent. My sis who qualifies as an intelligent lay person also thought it was very informative. As Steve says it was good to see the credits, especially Mick, our very own Siege Gunner, as the insights from the Bavarian archives were what the marketing people might call the usp of the programme. Peter summarised what we here know is a complex subject to fit into an hour which is some feat.

 

Excellent work Jeremy, and please pass this on to Peter.

 

Pete.

 

P.S. My sis was concerned that Peter's trusty jumper might have been ditched for the natty tweed waistcoat; I think we should be told...........

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Interestingly, despite numerous efforts on our part to include the French contribution to the battle, the BBC were just not interested in it. We argued but to no avail.


They also had a story they wanted to tell which meant that much of the new material never made it into the programme. I had an email yesterday from the GWF’s very own Siege Gunner (Mick Forsyth) who has watched all three episodes and who was desperately disappointed that so much of the wonderful material he had translated had been ignored. Peter and I argued to ‘top-load’ Episode 1 with German material but alas, that fell on deaf ears. I can say that there is more German material in Eps 2 & 3.  


The various comments made about who the programme was made for are spot on. It is for the general public – even those on the GWF with a degree of knowledge are not really the intended audience. I’d suggest waiting for Peter’s book which will include all of the material. If you have read his Fromelles tome then you’ll have an idea what to expect.  


Finally, it is worth bearing in mind how this project worked. Peter pitched the idea 2 years ago to the Head of BBC History and, after much deliberation, it was commissioned. The series director directed Epsiodes 1 & 3 whilst another director was brought in for Episode 2. We recce’d with them, explained the battle, the landscape and how the new material fitted in with the conventional wisdom of how the battle unfolded. Next, the directors (not us) drew up the script – this necessitated a great deal of editing and ‘discussion’ – until there was a working version. It is fascinating seeing people on social media saying how they'd have done it. The reality is they didn't do it - they sat at home and waited until there was something on the telly they could carp on about! The months of unpaid work to even get the programme commissioned would put most people off. Add in the fact that all research was paid for by Peter (not the BBC) and you have an idea of the commitment to even get the series off the ground.  


I have a mountain of work to get through before a much needed family holiday so don’t want to spend all day on the forum. However, it is worth pointing out what a consultant’s role is – it’s not hard, you consult and advise! However, the end decisions rest with the directors. It is up to them how much they want to implement your suggestions. Sometimes they listened, other times not. I can remember Taff Gillingham making the same point a while back. All of the comments I have picked up on social media from people who wanted to see more on this, less on that etc. tally in with the points we raised. It is a frustrating business. Anyway, let’s hope that EPs 2 & 3 are enjoyed. But, for those on the forum who want a bit more meat on the bones, I’d recommend the book when it comes out.


Cheers

Jeremy

 

P.S. Simon, just read your comment. Thanks very much indeed.

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2 minutes ago, J Banning said:

<snip> All of the comments I have picked up on social media from people who wanted to see more on this, less on that etc. tally in with the points we raised. It is a frustrating business. Anyway, let’s hope that EPs 2 & 3 are enjoyed. But, for those on the forum who want a bit more meat on the bones, I’d recommend the book when it comes out.


Cheers

Jeremy

 

P.S. Simon, just read your comment. Thanks very much indeed.

 

You're more than welcome. In fact, the reason I came here was to see if the chuntering (quasi-)professional nay-doers and social media warriors had made it to the forum to wail. I hadn't posted on twitter for a couple of years before last night, but the malicious cries of 'boring' and 'nothing new' were too good an **** not to kick.

 

Onwards men of Troy!

 

Cheers,

Simon

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I too thought that it was excellent.  Well done all.

 

Roger

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I was particularly struck by the German`s comment. "Walking! We couldn`t believe it - if they`d have run, they`d have swamped us" (Or words to that effect)

 

Peter Barton`s performance showed the merit of having a talented and informed amateur presenter over a disinterested professional.

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