German cemeteries in France

[PascalMallet]

I have just uploaded more general information in Dropbox directory names "_Divers (AN 19860710-1)". Some documents are related to peculiar cemeteries, just check. Some documents are in German with French translation.

Aménagements : General fittings.

     Abris en bois : Wooden shelters for tools, etc. to be built in some cemeteries.

     Boîtes avec noms : Boxes for namelists and pictures.

     Croix : About wooden and concrete crosses.

          Croix avec plaque métallique : Crosses with metal plate (picture).

          Croix en ardoise : Crosses made of slate.

          Croix en mauvais état : Bad crosses (see next post).

          Croix soldats inconnus : Replacement of French word "Inconnu" by German "Unbekannt".

Maintenance : Some texts in German.

     Rapports état cimetières (1952) : Reports about all German cemeteries in France in 1952.

Plantations : Plants.

     Capucines : About "nasturtium" (?) flowers.

     Entreprise Stark : Some problems with a French company about flowers... and money.

     Festuca glauca : VDK tries that kind of flowers.

Plaque Guillaume 1er : In 1937, German gov. asks for the plaque celebrating Guillaume 1er (Wilhem) in 1870, and which is stored in Herny presbytery (Moselle).
Recherche corps (témoignage) : Text about a German family searching for a son near Reims. In French but I can translate it in English if you like.

Regroupements corps : Gathering bodies with a list of places they have first been buried.

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PascalMallet]

Pictures of "Croix en mauvais état" file:

No text on pictures (shot october 1937). In the letter, they speak about 4 cemeteries: Dannevoux ("short crosses in the middle of the picture"), Mons-en-Laonnois ("black paint flakes off"), Noyers-Pont-Maugis ("short crosses and not lined up"), and Vauxbuin (same). With these only information, I tried to locate pictures (with "peut-être", "maybe" in their name. Can someone do better?

 

Dannevous?

 

Mons-en-Laonnois?

 

Noyers-Pont-Maugis?

 

Vauxbuin?

 

 

[PascalMallet]

I have just uploaded more general information in Dropbox directory names "_Divers (AN 19860710-3)" (named after reference number in National archives. Some documents are related to peculiar cemeteries, just check. Some documents are in German with French translation.

 

Cartes postales, fleurs, etc. : People want to sell postcards, flowers, etc.

Cercueils en terre cuite : In Haubourdin cemetery, German gov. has used 631 coffins made of terracota (see picture). Has someone heard about that?

Découverte de corps : Finding German bodies here and there.

Liste cimetières : List of cemeteries with German bodies.

Recherches : Searching and worshipping.

Transfert de corps : Bodies moving.

 

 

 

 

[PascalMallet]

Documents and pictures about St-Laurent-Blangy cemetery are now uploaded. They speak about a high cross but I have not seen any there. Was it not built or destroyed later on?

Cemetery has been first enlarged in 1930's, then in 1961 to get bodies coming from Comines. I will speak again about it.

 

Here are three pictures dated 1930:

 

 

 

[AliceF]

Pascal, great work! A fantastic source. 

Christine

 

 

 

[AliceF]

On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎25 at 17:26, PascalMallet said:

No text on pictures (shot october 1937). In the letter, they speak about 4 cemeteries: Dannevoux ("short crosses in the middle of the picture"), Mons-en-Laonnois ("black paint flakes off"), Noyers-Pont-Maugis ("short crosses and not lined up"), and Vauxbuin (same). With these only information, I tried to locate pictures (with "peut-être", "maybe" in their name. Can someone do better?

Pascal, I tried to find photos on those cemeteries, not easy to see which one is which.

Dannevoux had coniferous trees (like probably a lot of other German cemeteries as well). But the picture might show Dannevoux. I post here a photo from 1979 from Dannevoux (source Volksbund 1979,2). Found a moving story, too, which I try to post later.

 

Christine

[PascalMallet]

Hi Christine,

 

I have quickly checked with names we can read:

   - Scherbarth Karl: died 28/12/1916, buried in Dannevoux (only another one buried in Pantin).

   - Bernet W[ilhelm]: died 01/06/1916, buried in Dannevoux (no other in WW1 with initial W).

 

So I think we can confirm it is Dannevoux.

[PascalMallet]

I would like to introduce two fantastic websites I was told about two weeks ago. I guess they could be useful to everyone.

 

First is https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr It is IGN website (Institut Géographique National) with maps of every kind (and better than Google Maps). You can use several layers with transparency. Only in French, but easy to understand.

 

But the best is https://remonterletemps.ign.fr where you can compare aerial pictures from 1930's up today. I attach what I have done about St-Laurent-Blangy. I guess it can be helpful for other cemeteries extensions or displacements.

 

As it is in French, here is a quick tutorial:

   - Click on [Téléchargez] (download).

   - Type a place in [Rechercher un lieu] and choose in list.

   - You got every year when they shot pictures with pictured area in yellow (yellow dots show where pictures were shot). Display more years by clicking on arrows and don't zoom too much main map or you won't see the yellow dots.

   - With mouse, go on a yellow dot (don't click yet): it turns in blue and shows that peculiar picture area.

   - If area fits your needs, click and get the picture, and zoom it as you like (quality is sometimes very good).

   - In "Aperçu" window, there are date and scale, and you can download that picture for free.

   - Return to main map by closing "Aperçu" window.

 

I hope you will enjoy and maybe find answers to some questions. :-) 

 

[AliceF]

1 hour ago, PascalMallet said:

I would like to introduce two fantastic websites I was told about two weeks ago. I guess they could be useful to everyone.

 

Seems to be great sources! I'll try!

 

6 hours ago, PascalMallet said:

So I think we can confirm it is Dannevoux.

Well done!

 

Here a letter from 1957 about a grave in Dannevoux cemetery:

 

“Violets flower at the Toter Mann

 

From Montfaucon we drive with our car on a bumpy farm track. In the distance I can see the small group of firs. Forty years ago there was the cemetery of Dannevoux, our military cemetery. Does it still exist? Has the friend, whom I am looking for, been reburied in one of the large collective cemeteries around Verdun?

We find the place near the village. The firs have grown; new ones have been planted. The graves of that time have disappeared. A green lawn stretches out, simply enclosed by a wire. Outside peaceful cows are grazing, jauntily children are playing. Simple brown wooden crosses stand in loose rows, all the same, signposted on both sides. It can only be few out of all who died in the Rabenwald and at the Toter Mann.

 

I remember the place where I buried the nineteen-year-old, but I cannot find his name. I say to my wife: "After all, it is not so important whether I find the exact location of the grave. I am deeply touched that I can be here after so many years, with this memory and in this peace. At that time I dug up violets in the Forges wood and planted them on his grave mound."

 

Suddenly she calls: "Look, here is everything blue with violets!" She had put her hand on one of the many crosses, completely accidentally, she bends down, and there is the name: Erich K ..., 7/R.I.R.23. - 10.III.16. Around the cross, which stands under a large pine, is a four to five square meter spot full of violets. A fragrant blue pillow. They are the only violets on the whole green resting place. And it must be the great-great-grandchildren of the violets I planted on the grave of this young man forty years ago.

 

Dr. Albrecht Schoenhals“

 

Volksbund 1957,5

 

The young man is probably Erich Krems, 7/RIR 23, who died at the 10th of March 1916 and is buried in Dannevoux:

 

http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/detailansicht.html?tx_igverlustsuche_pi2[gid]=2053d7c36a7427343ca4f7cc33cf9b98&cHash=5dcd66936b02baf4260acb8f7b6dc117 

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1707058

 

Christine

Veilchen bluehen am Toten Mann.pdf

[PascalMallet]

What a beautiful and very moving story. Thanks Christine! Maybe flowers are still there...

[AliceF]

A surprise to me: Erich Krems (post # 559), the young man who was buried in Dannevoux, is not unknown. He was a good friend to Peter Kollwitz, the son of the well-known German artist Käthe Kollwitz. She has made the sculpture at the cemetery of Vladslo. So some of his correspondence is kept in archieves and he is mentioned in biographies on Käthe Kollwitz. 

 

They were four friends who decided together to voluntarily join the army and go to war in 1914.

Peter Kollwitz died in October 1914 and is buried in Vladslo.

Erich Krems died as mentioned in March 1916 and is buried in Dannevoux.

Richard Noll died in September 1916.

Hans Koch, who was wounded in 1915 and did not return to war afterwards, died at the age of 97.

 

Christine

 

 

 

 

[AliceF]

And the writer of the letter in post # 559 about the violets in Dannevoux might be a famous actor, but I have no proof

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albrecht_Schoenhals

 

Christine

[PascalMallet]

That's very interesting and gives life back to those people. Dannevoux is really not on my way for my own researches, so I have posted a message on a website for genealogical help (I also go here and there around my home). I hope someone can take a picture of that grave.

[PascalMallet]

Here is the translation of a text about a father coming on his son's grave at Warmeriville cemetery (near Reims) in 1922. Text in English is after text in French.

 

Recherche corps en 1922.pdf

 

Searching for a name at St-Laurent-Blangy, I found out that 22 names were missing on massgrave plates (including that one). As a brand new namebook is again available there (it was missing in January), I just made a comparison...

 

 

[PascalMallet]

Here is the file with missing names:

 

2017-04-St-Laurent-Blangy-Noms manquants.pdf

[AliceF]

Thanks for sharing this story, Pascal.

I tried to find an old photo from the cemetery in Warmeriville, but did not find any.

 

Christine

[ejwalshe]

Really wish I had a good KMZ file for all the Deutscher Soldatenfriedhof's on the Western Front.

 

If you ever come across a good one, please let me know.

 

CWGC has KMZ files for any country with a commonwealth burial, including France, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Luxembourg...

 

Thanks, Ted

[AliceF]

On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎25 at 17:26, PascalMallet said:

Mons-en-Laonnois?

 

From time to time I still try to see if I can find out more about the cemeteries in post #552.

Could read the name Kasten, and there are two soldiers with the name Kasten buried in Mons-en-Lannois in 1917, but that is not really a proof, I know

 

1 hour ago, ejwalshe said:

Really wish I had a good KMZ file for all the Deutscher Soldatenfriedhof's on the Western Front.

Do you mean of existing ones. Do you have one that is not good? Might be interesting here anyway.

I have seen a google earth map with cemetery locations many times on internet, but now when I am looking for it, I do not find it.

Was a page from The Netherlands or Belgium I think. Maybe somebody else knows and can post it. Not sure if it is good enough though.

 

Post also a photo of Erich Krems (post #559) - is a bit off the topic, I know. (Source: http://www.dw.com/de/erich-krems/a-19465592)

 

Christine

 

 

[ejwalshe]

Hi Christine

 

I have just started looking for a good German .kmz file...I found a couple which I did not like, as they did not pass my test (did not find Deutscher Soldatenfreidhof Fricourt).

 

WO1.kmz is an interesting file with many categories, but again it failed to find Deutscher Soldatenfreidhof Fricourt.

 

CWGC has great .kmz files by country, and Oxford University has compiled them into a single file....they are easy to find online.

 

I wish I could find something similar to what CWGC has to offer - they are very complete.

 

Thanks for looking, Ted

 

 

[AliceF]

Hi,

 

thanks for the information, for me the whole kmz file thing was new.

Anyway, in the case it is new for others as well I post here an example of what is meant, even if this is now not about German cemeteries in France.

 

I found this link here: https://www.poigraves.uk/pages/pagecw.php

 

Down loaded the CWGC cemetery files, opened the fist file on all cemeteries.

I attach to screen prints, first without clicking on anything, the other on when clicking on an icon.

 

As I said before, I saw google Earth maps, which I just now do not find anymore, but do not think it was kmz.

 

From the Volksbund website you can find any location of any German cemetery in France, but only one by one, I think, not an overview.

But maybe anybody else knows.

 

Christine

 

 

[charlie2]

A complete overview isn't possible, but choosing just a land lets you scroll through them 10 at a time.

[AliceF]

Hi,

 

thanks Charlie, 10 is better than one at a time!

I tried now to crate a test kmz file. Did it for the German cemeteries in the Somme.

Not sure if it worked. You can try the file I attached, should show the cemeteries of the screen print.

Source: Volksbund webpage.

 

Well, no problem to do that for all of the WW1 cemeteries in France (or in other areas if someone want to do that).

Will just need some time. Just, I think, this has been done before....

 

Christine

 

 

German cemeteries WW1.kmz

[chaz]

I use the POI site on our sat nav and also have it on an app on the iphone., very good but you do find yourself driving along a road then diverting to the nearest, then the next and so on. then you have to reprogram sat nav to get you back on the trail home. its a bit infectious.

depending on proximity, POI lists local cemeteries upto 6 or 10 miles depending on ammount, CWGC lists all upto 10m from your selected position.

Edited 14 May , 2017 by chaz

[PascalMallet]

On 11/05/2017 at 20:43, AliceF said:

Post also a photo of Erich Krems (post #559) - is a bit off the topic, I know. (Source: http://www.dw.com/de/erich-krems/a-19465592)

 

Hi Christine,

 

Thank you for the picture. As I told you, I ask a contact to take pictures at Dannevoux cemetery and I got them in the afternoon. Here are two, others are in Dropbox/Dannevoux: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/220zps1hyf1qtxv/AACpcxP68eF6RAXZjv8bC2ILa?dl=0

I also put the text you found with your English translation and mine in French.

 

You can see there are no more violets flower :-(, but he is still honored with a text (I roughly understood) and a flag (do you know its meaning?).

 

 

 

[AOK4]

I would guess that the flag may be referring to Berlin Schöneberg as the district flag has the colours green, red and yellow. See https://www.fahnenversand.de/fotw/flags/de-be_sb.html

 

Jan