Royal Air Force marked bayonets

[Ballyginny]

19 hours ago, RGJDEE said:

Hello my dear JMB,

not hot anymore up here , I do hope you all on the forum  are well and still picking  up the odd bits ?

as you say its seen some damp but I took a punt at auction and was lucky.

Skennerton ( With much appreciation to yourself) is regularly consulted. Though My focus has moved back a century or so from when it started.

Hello Mr dee  greT pics . Have you any photos of ww 1 bayonets .  1888   s .  Thanks . 

[RGJDEE]

39 minutes ago, Ballyginny said:

Hello Mr dee  greT pics . Have you any photos of ww 1 bayonets .  1888   s .  Thanks . 

 

[Ballyginny]

1 hour ago, RGJDEE said:

 

Brilliant  photos looks a cosy room  when fire is lit . Thanks for picture . Your canny as they say in  NE . 

[trajan]

On 22/07/2022 at 19:12, JMB1943 said:

Mr. Dee,

That certainly looks like it was ridden hard and put away wet!

Given the overall scarcity of the Vickers in the first place, that is a rather unusual piece.

I have not heard from the Emperor in some time, so don’t know the current status of the RAF bayonet paper..not even if it has been published yet.

Trajan is possibly in England on a research trip during the summer…..speaking of the summer, how hot is it in geordie land?

Thanks for posting it.

Regards,

JMB

JMB and all,

Many apologies for being off-line for so long. Rather a heavy few weeks as acting HOD plus MA and Ph.D theses to review plus hospital visits for this 'n' that. Now in the UK and hope to get to Leeds this week to sort out the RAF paper. Will be in touch when that is solved!

Julian

[trajan]

On 22/07/2022 at 18:15, RGJDEE said:

Hello to you all, Just arrived today and after a clean ( it was thick with red rust all over the metal parts)

Vickers 11 / 18

R A F

   1.

———

7 2 0 5

That has indeed seen some bad treatment! But nicely confirms how pommel steel inferior to blade steel. Many thanks, Julian

[RGJDEE]

57 minutes ago, trajan said:

That has indeed seen some bad treatment! But nicely confirms how pommel steel inferior to blade steel. Many thanks, Julian

You are very welcome Julian 

[N White]

New one?  Been a while, didn't see it here yet

And it's a Remington.  Listed at a known dealer.

 

[t.ryan]

While searching for new smiling tiger numbers, I came across this RAF marked Chapman 07 bayonet advertised for sale here, could not see it on the last list so though I would report it in. Date unreadable except for 0 in tenth month.

Cheers

TR

[JMB1943]

Mr TR,

That has been knocking around for a while, and I recorded the number quite a while ago.

https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/JVTVS7ECYFSEN9NGCNGG/full?target=10.1080/17416124.2022.2134288

Is the link to an article that Trajan and I (mostly Trajan) put together, with the help of everybody who reported them, on these RAF-marked Bayonets.

Enjoy the read!

Regards,

JMB

[t.ryan]

22 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

Mr TR,

That has been knocking around for a while, and I recorded the number quite a while ago.

https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/JVTVS7ECYFSEN9NGCNGG/full?target=10.1080/17416124.2022.2134288

Is the link to an article that Trajan and I (mostly Trajan) put together, with the help of everybody who reported them, on these RAF-marked Bayonets.

Enjoy the read!

Regards,

JMB

JMB,

Thanks for the interesting findings on the RAF bayonets and the work you boys have put into the research. More to read for me.

I had a quick look through the RAF post and your list before posting 1D 8082 and could only see 1C 8080 so thought maybe a new one, better luck next time.

Only spotted about 1 dozen 1907 bayonets so far on this trip but nothing unusual in the markings on them.

Just got myself a promotion, from one stripe to two, Covid stripes that is, so house bound for a few days. Just as well we bought

the little iPad along for company.

Cheers,

TR

[JMB1943]

TR,

Sorry to hear about the Covid, but at least being quarantined for a few days will give you plenty of time to check all the usual places for all of the usual suspects.

As for 1D 8082, that appeared on Ebay in the US about 3-4 weeks ago.

I should ask Trajan whether to keep the RAF bayonet thread going; now that the article is done, I’m not sure that there is anything more to discover and discuss.

Regards,

JMB

[sgt-maj]

Trajan...

Quite an interesting thread indeed. Reading through it reminded me, that two of my Vickers 07's are R.A.F. marked. Interestingly, like that of 'RGJDEE'... one is also 11/18. which also went to the same R.A.F location = 1. The second is 12/18 ( the outline of the '2' is extremely faint, but can be seen when magnified ). In this case, the location = 1C, with the item number being xx79. Once again, the numerals are extremely faint, but can be seen under magnification. Would it be fair to surmise that a shipment of Vickers went straight to the R.A.F. ???

 

 

Edited 26 December , 2022 by sgt-maj
Additional information

[JMB1943]

Sgt-Maj,

Thanks for putting up these two, Vickers-made examples.

You'll note that the first has been burnished within an inch of its life, and the second one is not far behind.

This extreme polishing, with significant loss of fine detail, is a noted characteristic of RAF-marked Patt. 07's; 

"Would it be fair to surmise that a shipment of Vickers went straight to the R.A.F. ???"

Probably not, because all of the Patt. 07's were made under contracts to the War Dept (for issue to British Army).

Following final inspection and acceptance (marking with the Broad Arrow) bayonets were greased, boxed up and passed into (GOVT) stores.

Bayonets were issued to the Royal Navy from stores and were then subsequently marked with an "N" on the ricasso (presumably by RN/RM armourers) to denote ownership by the RN.

I would expect that the same procedure would have applied to those bayonets that were destined for the RAF.

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

 

[trajan]

On 18/12/2022 at 06:15, JMB1943 said:

TR,

Sorry to hear about the Covid, but at least being quarantined ... I should ask Trajan whether to keep the RAF bayonet thread going; now that the article is done, I’m not sure that there is anything more to discover and discuss.

Yes, TR, sorry for the COVID... I sometimes but VERY rarely wish for it as Turkish university regulations mean I would get 2 weeks off!

JMB, yes, I think we should keep it going as the odd ones are still turning up as with the Vickers and Remington examples. I doubt that our main conclusions will change dramatically, but one never knows!

BTW, everyone, the article was a truly joint effort, but it was JMB who got it going in the end after I had made a false start some years ago!

Julian

[trajan]

On 26/12/2022 at 02:51, sgt-maj said:

... Would it be fair to surmise that a shipment of Vickers went straight to the R.A.F. ???

 

11 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

... Probably not, because all of the Patt. 07's were made under contracts to the War Dept (for issue to British Army). ... 

I agree with JMB. All of these ones must have got back to some form of 'central stores' after being returned to unit after November 1918 before issue to the RAF. So they would have all been mixed up at that stage. Then when it was decided to supply the RAF with these they were 'tidied' up, somewhat excessively in a few cases, and re-marked for the RAF, before going back to the army in the 30's when they were scrubbed again, in some cases to within an inch of their lives... 

Julian

[trajan]

On 24/11/2022 at 20:46, N White said:

New one?  Been a while, didn't see it here yet

And it's a Remington.  Listed at a known dealer.

 

INTERESTING! As we say in our article, we had not recorded any by Remington... we thought this was because "partly on account of their overall rarity, and partly because many of them could have been lost in early combat and not survived into the post 1918 period."

Can / will you provide a link to the site?

Julian

[JMB1943]

On 24/11/2022 at 12:46, N White said:

New one?  Been a while, didn't see it here yet

And it's a Remington.  Listed at a known dealer.

 

My apologies to Mr White for not acknowledging this new, first Remington example.

I must have been asleep at the wheel (again!).

Regards,

JMB

 

[trajan]

16 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

My apologies to Mr White for not acknowledging this new, first Remington example.

I must have been asleep at the wheel (again!).

Regards,

JMB

 

No, not asleep at the wheel, JMB, blame the weather your way, which slows down the brain a bit, albeit not as much as it freezes those poor oranges and igauanas...!!!

To be quite honest it did not really hit me at first that this was a 'missing' Remington. My excuse? Still recovering from an intensive week walking Rome and visiting sites that I teach in my courses but have not visited since 1998... Anyway, shows the value, if nothing else, of keeping the thread wide open!

Julian

[t.ryan]

JMB.

Just came across this RAF marked bayonet being advertised on the bay over your way, I cannot see it listed anywhere so will add it for you to check out.

Cheers,

TR.

[JMB1943]

Mr TR,

Thanks for keeping an eye open for these; we do actually have this one in our list already.

Regards,

JMB

[t.ryan]

I came across these R.A.F. marked 07s while searching for the elusive smiling tiger bayonets, they do not appear on the out dated list but do you have them.

RAF 1 4878,--- RAF 1D 3515,--- RAF 1C 4613,--- RAF 1D 8634--- RAF 1D 1481. If you do not have them I will upload the photo's.

Cheers,

TR

[JMB1943]

Mr TR,

Thanks for those extra 5 serials.

I shall dive deep into the archives, and report back.

Regards,

JMB

[JMB1943]

TR, 

All of those 5 serials are new, and the updated Table is given here.; *NOT 0749

You scored a double century with the Siamese Tigers, and here you are poised for another ton with the RAF bayos

Related to the immortal Sir Don B much ???

Regards,

JMB

 

	1	1. A	1. B	1. C	1. D	1. E	1. F	A.L.	UNK
1	0681	0371	0140	1175	0871	0116	1113	5415	6701
	749*	0943	1601	2202	1481	0398	2103
	0768	1078	2994	3641	2017	0852	6802
	1712	1606	3157	4613	3021	0897
5	1878	4027	4607	5222	3515	1016
	2279	4335	4650	5398	3605	1550
	4878	7859	5652	6557	3713	1559
	5552	8065	7112	7808	4379	1787
	5806		7173	8080	5319	2440
10	5809		7448	9235	5546	3242
	6719		8238	9303	5713	3881
	6731		8757	9798	5868	3991
	7912		9557	9911	6563	4033
	8356				7390	4232
15	9369				7564	4460
	9957				7600	4594
	9996				8082	4791
					8490	4840
					8634	5448
20					9298	5476
					9500	6206
						6341
25
30
	17	8	13	13	21	22	3	1	1 = 99

Edited 26 February , 2023 by JMB1943

[t.ryan]

JMB,

No such luck with Sir Donald,  we could do with  him now tho.

These RAF numbers came from the same site as the the last lot of smiling tigers, I just changed the search to RAF 07 bayonets and they came up along with a few others which I could not read, so glad these were new numbers.

Thanks for the new list, how have the 2 listing charts looking good now.

Cheers,

TR

[t.ryan]

JMB,

This is another 5 RAF numbered bayonets from the same source as the last five. From what I can see they would all be new to the list.

RAF 1C 2013,---RAF 1C 4128--- RAF 1D 8029 (1D sellers description)--- RAF 1E 0306--- RAF 1? 7409 with 2 photo's to help with the bad stamping.

Cheers,

TR