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Remembered Today:

Royal Air Force marked bayonets


trajan

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Dave/PRC/TR,

I can understand why you might think that it might be R or K, but do remember that Trajan (from 2014) and myself (from 2019) have been tracking these RAF bayos. We have never, nor anyone else, seen a 1K or 1R previously. 

Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but………if K is real, where are the G / H / I / J series hiding?

Regards,

JMB

 

Edited by JMB1943
typo
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Could it be an accidental stamping that got through, seeing he already had the R stamp in use at the time.??. Interesting to see Trajan's thoughts on it.

Cheers,

TR

 

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I wish I’d have brought it now….or put the better glasses on to take the pic😤😤😤

Dave.

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Dave,

You have set the cat amongst the pigeons!

Mission impossible……care to track this bayonet cross-country and buy it or at least redo some photos?

Regards,

JMB

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There’s another show in March, might still be there then!…it certainly appears to be either a K or an R to me.

one possibility….if the bayonets were stored in groups of their batch letters, they may well have been thinned out, with whole batches of the latter serials going straight into the melting pot rather than being sold off as surplus…speculation I know, but that would be one explanation, this one may just have been nicked from the foundry.

Dave.

 

 

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JMB, Dave66. 

I have been searching for the bayonet with no luck but if it was at a gun show we may never see it advertised. Whilst looking for it, I did come across a new RAF numbered bayonet for the list. A very clearly marked 1E 4791 just to keep the numbers rolling. Note the long slanty leg on the "R" and the one in question.

Cheers,

TR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RAF1E4791.jpg

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Mr TR,

Thanks for that new one.

You and Dave66 are both experienced bayonet spotters, and if you think that it is K / R then of course I’m reluctant to say “absolutely not”.

However, for the reasons stated, I’m still not convinced.

If it's agreeable to you, I’ll enter it as 1 E/K/R 4541 for the time being, until we can nail it.

Regards,

JMB

Edited by JMB1943
typo
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1 hour ago, JMB1943 said:

If its agreeable to you, I’ll enter it as 1 E/K/R 4541 for the time being, until we can nail it.

 

Absolutely fine….you just never know what’s round the corner.

Dave.

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A new one on eBay.

I read as 1. B / 4274, what sayest thou??

Regards,

JMB

Picture 7 of 24

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Agreed JMB, the numbers are slowly rising.

Dave.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good friend of mine sends me a message "Hey I just picked up a No1 Mark III bayonet.  It is RAF marked"

He was happy to send pics once I told him about our collective project here.

1 E 6070, Wilkinson, with the Pall Mall gap.

Dates sadly unreadable.

 

Resized_20231106_204615.jpeg

Resized_20231106_205021.jpeg

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Good to see a new number show up for the R.A.F. list. 

New numbers for both the R.A.F. and the smiling tiger bayonets are becoming some what hard to find of late, but as Phil said; the search must go on.

Thanks for adding this new one, looks like your friend has found himself a nice bayonet

Cheers,

TR

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  • 1 month later...

Hello all! Sorry to have been absent for so long... Not quite AWOL but almost so.

OK, the R or K....

On 24/10/2023 at 00:26, JMB1943 said:

Dave/PRC/TR,

I can understand why you might think that it might be R or K, but do remember that Trajan (from 2014) and myself (from 2019) have been tracking these RAF bayos. We have never, nor anyone else, seen a 1K or 1R previously. 

Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but………if K is real, where are the G / H / I / J series hiding?

Regards,

JMB

 

Well, I and JMB had been studying these things for almost a decade before venturing into print, and since then others have been following up on new discoveries - many thanks to you all!.

As JMB says, absence of evidence, etc., but I find it extremely hard to believe that with almost a hundred of these things having turned up so far we have never seen anything go above the 'F' series apart from that anomalous 'AL 5415' one. So, I am naturally cautious about accepting another series up to K or possibly R. Think on it. If up to 'F' and including the '1' and 'AL' series, we are already talking of some 70,000 bayonets marked for the RAF. If the series extended to 'K' only, not 'R', with presumably a G,H,I,J series also, then thats another 40-50,000 bayonets. What would the RAF want with  110,000+ bayonets in the mid-war years? IIRC, the RAF was failrly rapidly reduced from some 290,000 in 1918 to 35,000 or so by late 1920's. Even 70,000 seems far too many, but I guess 'saving up for a rany day' mght account for that number, especially if the bayonets came to the RAF in the 1918-2920's, albeint not serial-marked until the mid-1920's. 

So, my own feelings are it is a mis-strike of some kind, or perhaps the letter form has been altered by a later blow. It would be nice to see it though to check it out!

Best wishes for thr New Year, one and all!

Julian

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One more for you with the frog, was bought all together from the veteran.

kind regards

g

 

0F9989BE-3275-4F21-A1F9-C039A5391EE2.jpeg

1D3D3715-CED7-4168-9D89-22ED40894AE5.jpeg

C4A4D55E-4A11-4501-819C-7A46B16CB873.jpeg

D9D6CE4D-C1BA-4266-B402-2389C268519C.jpeg

BF4BD71F-1B86-4FC5-883C-079B4C9FB554.jpeg

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Many thanks! The frog is clearly RAF blue but I assume is not marked?

Julian

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4 hours ago, trajan said:

Many thanks! The frog is clearly RAF blue but I assume is not marked?

Julian

Believe it is too faded to tell to be honest, 

kind regards

g

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  • 3 weeks later...

trajan, JMB,

This RAF post has been a little quiet of late, but as Phil B says; the search must go on.

Back on page 3 there were a couple of numbers added showing under the pommel marking.

I just came across this RAF 1 1735 numbered bayonet that has several markings. I believe it is a new number for you to check out.

Cheers,

TR

R1.jpg

R2.jpg

R3.jpg

R4.jpg

R5.jpg

R7.jpg

R6.jpg

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There was a large storage depot in Selby….32 instructions for armourers have it as S.Y..just a thought.

Or, York was Y.

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/raf-snaith-selby-munition-stores-summer-2011.93764/

Edit….link added…https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1457135?section=official-list-entry

Edited by Dave66
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6 hours ago, navydoc16 said:

How curious, the nature of the markings I have not seen before 

 

kind regards 

g

Navydoc,

See below for the Article that Trajan and I (mostly Trajan) wrote on these RAF-marked bayos.

There are several marked 1 / S D / month year, that we had interpreted as Stores Depot.

https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/JVTVS7ECYFSEN9NGCNGG/full?target=10.1080/17416124.2022.2134288

Regards,

JMB

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3 hours ago, Dave66 said:

There was a large storage depot in Selby….32 instructions for armourers have it as S.Y..just a thought.

Or, York was Y.

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/raf-snaith-selby-munition-stores-summer-2011.93764/

Edit….link added…https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1457135?section=official-list-entry

Dave,

Those two links are very relevant, and an interesting read.

I was wondering how to explain Y / S D / 3 21; now it looks like the York depot???

Regards,

JMB

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Mr TR,

That is a very nice find!!

First that we have seen of the Y / S D / date type marking; note the almost Runic sold-out-of-service as seen on the other S D marked examples in the paper.

Time for me to update the Table, and I'll try to knock that out today, but don't hold your breathe.

Regards,

JMB

 

Edited by JMB1943
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1 hour ago, JMB1943 said:

Dave,

Those two links are very relevant, and an interesting read.

I was wondering how to explain Y / S D / 3 21; now it looks like the York depot???

Regards,

JMB

It would be nice to see another similar S.D stamp but with a different depot to prove the theory…one for the backburner to slowly simmer.

Nice to see one with such interesting markings.

Best wishes all,

Dave

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Here is the updated Table of Serials. Regards, JMB

UNK* = corrosion; **NOT 0749; *** indicates 1 A 0371 lined through, and 1 6719 stamped underneath.

Alpha-numeric

1

1 A

1 B

1 C

1 D

1 E

1 F

A L

UNK*

 

0681

0371***

0140

0049

0871

0116

1113

5415

6701

 

749**

0943

0993

1175

1481

0306

2103

 

7409

 

0768

1063

1594

2013

2017

0398

6802

 

8029

 

1594

1078

1601

2202

3021

0511

 

 

 

5

1712

1606

2406

3527

3515

0852

 

 

 

 

1735

2705/6

2994

3641

3605

0897

 

 

 

 

1878

4027

3157

4128

3713

1016

 

 

 

 

2279

4335

4274

4613

4379

1550

 

 

 

 

4878

4613

4607

5222

5282

1559

 

 

 

10

5003

6006

4650

5398

5319

1787

 

 

 

 

5552

7859

5059

6371

5546

2135

 

 

 

 

5806

8065

5652

6557

5553

2394

 

 

 

 

5809

 

5860

7364

5713

2440

 

 

 

 

5860

 

7112

7808

5868

3242

 

 

 

15

6209

 

7173

8080

6563

3881

 

 

 

 

6682

 

7448

9235

7390

3991

 

 

 

 

6719***

 

7625

9303

7564

4033

 

 

1/E/K/R

 

6731

 

8238

9798

7600

4232

 

 

4541

 

7912

 

8757

9911

8029

4460

 

 

 

20

8356

 

8782

 

8082

4594

 

 

 

 

9369

 

9557

 

8490

4791

 

 

 

 

9957

 

 

 

8634

4840

 

 

 

 

9996

 

 

 

9298

5448

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9500

5476

 

 

 

25

 

 

 

 

 

6070

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6206

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6341

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

23

12

21

19

24

27

3

1

4 = 134

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