JMB1943 Posted 23 October , 2023 Share Posted 23 October , 2023 (edited) Dave/PRC/TR, I can understand why you might think that it might be R or K, but do remember that Trajan (from 2014) and myself (from 2019) have been tracking these RAF bayos. We have never, nor anyone else, seen a 1K or 1R previously. Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but………if K is real, where are the G / H / I / J series hiding? Regards, JMB Edited 23 October , 2023 by JMB1943 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 23 October , 2023 Share Posted 23 October , 2023 Could it be an accidental stamping that got through, seeing he already had the R stamp in use at the time.??. Interesting to see Trajan's thoughts on it. Cheers, TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 23 October , 2023 Share Posted 23 October , 2023 I wish I’d have brought it now….or put the better glasses on to take the pic😤😤😤 Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 23 October , 2023 Share Posted 23 October , 2023 Dave, You have set the cat amongst the pigeons! Mission impossible……care to track this bayonet cross-country and buy it or at least redo some photos? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 24 October , 2023 Share Posted 24 October , 2023 There’s another show in March, might still be there then!…it certainly appears to be either a K or an R to me. one possibility….if the bayonets were stored in groups of their batch letters, they may well have been thinned out, with whole batches of the latter serials going straight into the melting pot rather than being sold off as surplus…speculation I know, but that would be one explanation, this one may just have been nicked from the foundry. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 24 October , 2023 Share Posted 24 October , 2023 JMB, Dave66. I have been searching for the bayonet with no luck but if it was at a gun show we may never see it advertised. Whilst looking for it, I did come across a new RAF numbered bayonet for the list. A very clearly marked 1E 4791 just to keep the numbers rolling. Note the long slanty leg on the "R" and the one in question. Cheers, TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 24 October , 2023 Share Posted 24 October , 2023 (edited) Mr TR, Thanks for that new one. You and Dave66 are both experienced bayonet spotters, and if you think that it is K / R then of course I’m reluctant to say “absolutely not”. However, for the reasons stated, I’m still not convinced. If it's agreeable to you, I’ll enter it as 1 E/K/R 4541 for the time being, until we can nail it. Regards, JMB Edited 29 October , 2023 by JMB1943 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 24 October , 2023 Share Posted 24 October , 2023 1 hour ago, JMB1943 said: If its agreeable to you, I’ll enter it as 1 E/K/R 4541 for the time being, until we can nail it. Absolutely fine….you just never know what’s round the corner. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 29 October , 2023 Share Posted 29 October , 2023 A new one on eBay. I read as 1. B / 4274, what sayest thou?? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 29 October , 2023 Share Posted 29 October , 2023 Agreed JMB, the numbers are slowly rising. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 7 November , 2023 Share Posted 7 November , 2023 Good friend of mine sends me a message "Hey I just picked up a No1 Mark III bayonet. It is RAF marked" He was happy to send pics once I told him about our collective project here. 1 E 6070, Wilkinson, with the Pall Mall gap. Dates sadly unreadable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 7 November , 2023 Share Posted 7 November , 2023 Good to see a new number show up for the R.A.F. list. New numbers for both the R.A.F. and the smiling tiger bayonets are becoming some what hard to find of late, but as Phil said; the search must go on. Thanks for adding this new one, looks like your friend has found himself a nice bayonet Cheers, TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 31 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2023 Hello all! Sorry to have been absent for so long... Not quite AWOL but almost so. OK, the R or K.... On 24/10/2023 at 00:26, JMB1943 said: Dave/PRC/TR, I can understand why you might think that it might be R or K, but do remember that Trajan (from 2014) and myself (from 2019) have been tracking these RAF bayos. We have never, nor anyone else, seen a 1K or 1R previously. Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but………if K is real, where are the G / H / I / J series hiding? Regards, JMB Well, I and JMB had been studying these things for almost a decade before venturing into print, and since then others have been following up on new discoveries - many thanks to you all!. As JMB says, absence of evidence, etc., but I find it extremely hard to believe that with almost a hundred of these things having turned up so far we have never seen anything go above the 'F' series apart from that anomalous 'AL 5415' one. So, I am naturally cautious about accepting another series up to K or possibly R. Think on it. If up to 'F' and including the '1' and 'AL' series, we are already talking of some 70,000 bayonets marked for the RAF. If the series extended to 'K' only, not 'R', with presumably a G,H,I,J series also, then thats another 40-50,000 bayonets. What would the RAF want with 110,000+ bayonets in the mid-war years? IIRC, the RAF was failrly rapidly reduced from some 290,000 in 1918 to 35,000 or so by late 1920's. Even 70,000 seems far too many, but I guess 'saving up for a rany day' mght account for that number, especially if the bayonets came to the RAF in the 1918-2920's, albeint not serial-marked until the mid-1920's. So, my own feelings are it is a mis-strike of some kind, or perhaps the letter form has been altered by a later blow. It would be nice to see it though to check it out! Best wishes for thr New Year, one and all! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 1 January Share Posted 1 January One more for you with the frog, was bought all together from the veteran. kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 January Author Share Posted 1 January Many thanks! The frog is clearly RAF blue but I assume is not marked? Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 1 January Share Posted 1 January That’s a nice RAF 1925 Pattern frog. http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1925/pics/blue/1925_blue_equipment_carriers.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 1 January Share Posted 1 January 4 hours ago, trajan said: Many thanks! The frog is clearly RAF blue but I assume is not marked? Julian Believe it is too faded to tell to be honest, kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 19 January Share Posted 19 January trajan, JMB, This RAF post has been a little quiet of late, but as Phil B says; the search must go on. Back on page 3 there were a couple of numbers added showing under the pommel marking. I just came across this RAF 1 1735 numbered bayonet that has several markings. I believe it is a new number for you to check out. Cheers, TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 19 January Share Posted 19 January How curious, the nature of the markings I have not seen before kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 19 January Share Posted 19 January (edited) There was a large storage depot in Selby….32 instructions for armourers have it as S.Y..just a thought. Or, York was Y. https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/raf-snaith-selby-munition-stores-summer-2011.93764/ Edit….link added…https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1457135?section=official-list-entry Edited 19 January by Dave66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 19 January Share Posted 19 January 6 hours ago, navydoc16 said: How curious, the nature of the markings I have not seen before kind regards g Navydoc, See below for the Article that Trajan and I (mostly Trajan) wrote on these RAF-marked bayos. There are several marked 1 / S D / month year, that we had interpreted as Stores Depot. https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/JVTVS7ECYFSEN9NGCNGG/full?target=10.1080/17416124.2022.2134288 Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 19 January Share Posted 19 January 3 hours ago, Dave66 said: There was a large storage depot in Selby….32 instructions for armourers have it as S.Y..just a thought. Or, York was Y. https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/raf-snaith-selby-munition-stores-summer-2011.93764/ Edit….link added…https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1457135?section=official-list-entry Dave, Those two links are very relevant, and an interesting read. I was wondering how to explain Y / S D / 3 21; now it looks like the York depot??? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 19 January Share Posted 19 January (edited) Mr TR, That is a very nice find!! First that we have seen of the Y / S D / date type marking; note the almost Runic sold-out-of-service as seen on the other S D marked examples in the paper. Time for me to update the Table, and I'll try to knock that out today, but don't hold your breathe. Regards, JMB Edited 19 January by JMB1943 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 19 January Share Posted 19 January 1 hour ago, JMB1943 said: Dave, Those two links are very relevant, and an interesting read. I was wondering how to explain Y / S D / 3 21; now it looks like the York depot??? Regards, JMB It would be nice to see another similar S.D stamp but with a different depot to prove the theory…one for the backburner to slowly simmer. Nice to see one with such interesting markings. Best wishes all, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 19 January Share Posted 19 January Here is the updated Table of Serials. Regards, JMB UNK* = corrosion; **NOT 0749; *** indicates 1 A 0371 lined through, and 1 6719 stamped underneath. Alpha-numeric 1 1 A 1 B 1 C 1 D 1 E 1 F A L UNK* 0681 0371*** 0140 0049 0871 0116 1113 5415 6701 749** 0943 0993 1175 1481 0306 2103 7409 0768 1063 1594 2013 2017 0398 6802 8029 1594 1078 1601 2202 3021 0511 5 1712 1606 2406 3527 3515 0852 1735 2705/6 2994 3641 3605 0897 1878 4027 3157 4128 3713 1016 2279 4335 4274 4613 4379 1550 4878 4613 4607 5222 5282 1559 10 5003 6006 4650 5398 5319 1787 5552 7859 5059 6371 5546 2135 5806 8065 5652 6557 5553 2394 5809 5860 7364 5713 2440 5860 7112 7808 5868 3242 15 6209 7173 8080 6563 3881 6682 7448 9235 7390 3991 6719*** 7625 9303 7564 4033 1/E/K/R 6731 8238 9798 7600 4232 4541 7912 8757 9911 8029 4460 20 8356 8782 8082 4594 9369 9557 8490 4791 9957 8634 4840 9996 9298 5448 9500 5476 25 6070 6206 6341 30 23 12 21 19 24 27 3 1 4 = 134 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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