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Remembered Today:

Royal Air Force marked bayonets


trajan

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Mr. Ryan, Mr. Ryan.......

Looks like you have cleared the Big 100 and 4 more besides.

Well done again!

Will update the list in several weeks, when I get home.

Regards,

JMB

 

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JMB,

Enjoy that holiday, will keep any new additions found for both posts until we see that you are back in circulation again.

Cheers,

TR

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello Mr. TR,

I am back (have just updated the Smiling Tigers listing) from my walkabout.

Will update the RAF list later this weekend, after you have posted any additional numbers seen recently.

Regards,

JMB

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Updated list is here.

(A) Must admit that I have some reservations about RAF/ 1. D / 1481.

1) It lacks the periods between R  A  F  & 1  D (although most do not, some others do lack periods).

2) It lacks the ____ underline bar

3) The font of all of the stamps is VERY different that of ALL other known examples.

Can I get agreement to delete 1. D 1481?

(B) Since 7409 (if it is 0) has an ambiguous letter code (B, E, D) have listed it in the UNK column.

Regards,

JMB

 

 

1

1. A

1. B

1. C

1. D

1. E

1. F

A.L.

UNK

1

0681

0371

0140

1175

0871

0116

1113

5415

6701

 

749*

0943

1601

2013

1481***

0306

2103

 

7409

 

0768

1078

2994

2202

2017

0398

6802

 

 

 

1712

1606

3157

3641

3021

0852

 

 

 

5

1878

4027

4607

4128

3515

0897

 

 

 

 

2279

4335

4650

4613

3605

1016

 

 

 

 

4878

7859

5652

5222

3713

1550

 

 

 

 

5552

8065

7112

5398

4379

1559

 

 

 

 

5806

 

7173

6557

5319

1787

 

 

 

10

5809

 

7448

7808

5546

2440

 

 

 

 

6719

 

8238

8080

5553

3242

 

 

 

 

6731

 

8757

9235

5713

3881

 

 

 

 

7912

 

9557

9303

5868

3991

 

 

 

 

8356

 

 

9798

6563

4033

 

 

 

15

9369

 

 

9911

7390

4232

 

 

 

 

9957

 

 

 

7564

4460

 

 

 

 

9996

 

 

 

7600

4594

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8029

4791

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8082

4840

 

 

 

20

 

 

 

 

8490

5448

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8634

5476

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9298

6206

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9500

6342

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

25

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

17

8

13

15

23

23

3

1

2 = 105

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JMB

Glad you enjoyed your family visit, and as John Denver sang, "its good to be back home again" for me also, home last night, but we enjoyed our time away.

Thanks for the 2 new updated lists, so much easier to keep check on.

1D 1481, it does look odd to the rest, maybe leave it in the unknown list for the time being as something might come to light about it in the future.

I believe these are all new numbers for this list.

RAF 6682 (sellers discript). 1A 4613, 1C 3527, 1D 5282, 1E 2135 (sellers discript.), 1E 2394.

Cheers,

TR

 

 

RAF6682.jpg

RAF1A4613.jpg

RAF1C3527.jpg

RAF1D5282.jpg

RAF1E2135.jpg

RAF1E2394.jpg

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TR,

Quite the haul of new numbers that you have there!

R A F /   / 6682 is the first one lacking an alphanumeric descriptor that we have seen, so rather special.

@trajan will be very interested to see that one.

I’m struck by the contrast between the shiny pommels of some and the corroded pommels of others.

Will update the list shortly.

Regards,

JMB

 

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JMB

 Regarding RAF 1D 1481 which you had a ? on whether it should be deleted from the list.

 I came across a photo of RAF 1C 9798 which is already on the list and thought it looked to have been stamped in a similar way, so thought it was worth you checking it out.

What are your thoughts on both.

Cheers,

TR

RAF1C9798.jpg

RAF1D1481.jpg

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TR,

Well, I must admit that the photo of 9798 puts 1481 in a different perspective.

Same placement, lack of periods, lack of underline so that is a plus.

I had previously overlooked the shiny pommel (typical of many RAF bayos), and that is another plus.

The font is still a little odd-looking, but not a deal-breaker.

Overall, 1481 probably deserves to remain in the list.

Thanks for taking the time to dig out that photo.

Regards,

JMB

Edited by JMB1943
typo
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On 20/03/2023 at 21:40, JMB1943 said:

Updated list is here.

 

On 21/03/2023 at 01:40, t.ryan said:

 

1D 1481, it does look odd to the rest, maybe leave it in the unknown list for the time being as something might come to light about it in the future.

I believe these are all new numbers for this list.

RAF 6682 (sellers discript). 1A 4613, 1C 3527, 1D 5282, 1E 2135 (sellers discript.), 1E 2394.

 

On 21/03/2023 at 18:43, JMB1943 said:

Quite the haul of new numbers that you have there!

R A F /   / 6682 is the first one lacking an alphanumeric descriptor that we have seen, so rather special.

@trajan will be very interested to see that one.

 

Slowly working my way backwards through GWF after a 8-9 week pause forced on me by changes in teaching schedule and load after the 6th February earthquake over here. My university has adopted a weird hybrid system: classes to be given in class on campus for students who wish to attend, and on-line for others who wish to stay at home. This system promoted by the Universities Council here to suit the wishes of students directly and/or physically or mentally affected by the earthquake, plus the need to use university dormitories, etc., for the 1.6 million people made homeless by the earthquake...

So, I slowly come back into the fray, and JMB thank you so much for keeping the pot simmering while I have been away, plus TR and other contributors for supplying new data! Yes, that RAF / / 6682 is an interesting one! Needs some thought! It looks like RAF bayonets is going to achieve  the same cult status as your Tigeres Mr.JMB!

Julian

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On 22/03/2023 at 19:08, JMB1943 said:

TR,

Well, I must admit that the photo of 9798 puts 1481 in a different perspective.

Whoops - missed this one in my haste to get on working through all these old posts!

Yes, a rethink there on 1481... The German system was that individual units made their own stamps for unit markings, and so the variations in the number styles, but not the size on regularly marked bayonets. One would have thought that a centralised system as seems to be the case with these RAF ones would use a centralised standard stamp. but seems it was not the case - unless, of course, we have a re-numbered specimen to replace a lost example, or a late addition to a previously completed' run or the seqeunce.

Yes, those bright pommels seem to be the usual finish - both of mine are like that.

Julian

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Thanks to all of the tiger-hunters, here is latest updated list.

Regards,

JMB

No alpha-numeric

1

1 A

1 B

1 C

1 D

1 E

1 F

A L

UNK

6682

0681

0371

0140

1175

0871

0116

1113

5415

6701

 

749*

0943

1601

2013

1481

0306

2103

 

7409

 

0768

1078

2994

2202

2017

0398

6802

 

 

 

1712

1606

3157

3527

3021

0852

 

 

 

5

1878

2706

4607

3641

3515

0897

 

 

 

 

2279

4027

4650

4128

3605

1016

 

 

 

 

4878

4335

5652

4613

3713

1550

 

 

 

 

5552

4613

7112

5222

4379

1559

 

 

 

 

5806

7859

7173

5398

5282

1787

 

 

 

10

5809

8065

7448

6557

5319

2135

 

 

 

 

6719

 

8238

7808

5546

2394

 

 

 

 

6731

 

8757

8080

5553

2440

 

 

 

 

7912

 

9557

9235

5713

3242

 

 

 

 

8356

 

 

9303

5868

3881

 

 

 

15

9369

 

 

9798

6563

3991

 

 

 

 

9957

 

 

9911

7390

4033

 

 

 

 

9996

 

 

 

7564

4232

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7600

4460

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8029

4594

 

 

 

20

 

 

 

 

8082

4791

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8490

4840

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8634

5448

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9298

5476

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9500

6206

 

 

 

25

 

 

 

 

 

6342

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1

17

10

13

16

24

25

3

1

2 = 112

 

 

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Wonder if we'll ever get a 9999! Looks possible now, thanks to all these ones being posted by all you chaps out there! And JMB, this list format is great!

Julian (still catching up on GWF posts!)

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JMB,

Not another litter but another gathering for the want of a better word; of RAF marked 07 bayonets for your list and all from same place over your way.

Numbers 1-6209, 1A-6349, 1B-2406, 1B-5059, 1B-6802, 1C-1011, 1E-3429, for you to check; if I read them correct, they all appear to be new numbers.

Cheers,

TR

16209.jpg

1A6349.jpg

1B2406.jpg

1B5059.jpg

1B6802.jpg

1C1011.jpg

1E3429.jpg

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TR,

Many thanks for this new bundle of RAF- marked bayonets.

Two of these are especially interesting to me.

The first is the 1B, with the oversized B; this speaks to our other example of unusual font.

The second is the 1E / 3429, which has a W 19 stamp at the top of the pommel; I’ll have to read our article again to be sure, but off-hand I don’t remember a previous marking of this type.

Regards,

JMB

 

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Thanks TR, you diligent spotter!

JMB, and all others, I think Arms and Armour where we published our article on these does allow 'Notes' as updates - possibly the on-line version as well. With all these ones coming up, though, when to strike???!!!

Julian 

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I have just become aware that an early bayonet book,

Bayonet Markings, A Guide For Collectors by I.D. Davidson, printed by the Benedict Press, 115 Lowther Road, Brighton, England; published privately by the author, 1973

shows a line-drawing of the pommel of a Patt. 1907  bayonet marked to the R.A.F. (page 6)

The format        R.A.F. / 1 E / 2773         between the clearance hole and the release button is correct.

Davidson does offer acknowledgements to several authors in his foreword, so it is not clear whether he himself had seen an RAF-marked bayonet, or was borrowing from one of those.

However, that particular serial has not yet appeared in real life.

Regards,

JMB

 

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JMB,

Only one new RAF number from the last search, Number 1C 5306; it also has an extra C73 stamp on the top of the pommel similar to the last one I posted.

Cheers,

TR

raf1c5306.jpg

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6 hours ago, t.ryan said:

JMB,

Only one new RAF number from the last search, Number 1C 5306; it also has an extra C73 stamp on the top of the pommel similar to the last one I posted.

Cheers,

TR

raf1c5306.jpg

Thanks TR for keeping an eye for these! 

Julian

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trajan, JMB,

Another couple of RAF numbers, 1B 0993 & 1C 0049 for you to check and add to the list if ok, one US and one UK.

These RAF marked bayonets are becoming a bit like the smiling tiger bayonets, they just keep flying in.

Cheers, 

TR

RAF1B0993.jpg

RAF1C0049.jpg

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Mr Ryan,

Thanks again for spotting these.

I think that 1C / 0049 is the first double-digit example to be found.

Time soon to update the list, so let’s aim for 150.

Regards,

JMB

 

 

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8 hours ago, t.ryan said:

Another couple of RAF numbers, 1B 0993 & 1C 0049 for you to check and add to the list if ok, one US and one UK. ... These RAF marked bayonets are becoming a bit like the smiling tiger bayonets, they just keep flying in.

 

 

Many thanks! They do indeed keep flying (:thumbsup:) in! Any idea as to the makers and date?

2 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

 

Time soon to update the list, so let’s aim for 150.

Yes, that number looks possible now - I admit I was beginning to doubt it, but with TR's help in particular, we are getting there!

Julian

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trajan,

They are both Sandersons but dates are unclear, so added the photo's for you to see. 1B 0993  is 2/18 or 12/18 and 1C 0049 ?. 10/18

I am not sure why the photo's come up so large, it would be good to get them down to about 1/4 the size, any suggestions.

Cheers,

R01.jpg.3a2ce40aa5289c7c22dd0c9583b3fd2d.jpgR02.jpg.dd868c020cea8adc6b459c9fdd6aa86e.jpgTR

Edited by t.ryan
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Thanks TR! All grist to the mill!

Julian

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JMB, trajan,

A couple of new RAF marked bayonets for you to check out, both examples have the extra marking on the top of the pommel; so a bit more homework for you.

1E 4044 and marked A363, shown as a Sanderson but no date.

1E 4950 and marked D214. Vickers 2/18, as stated by the seller, the 18 is unclear but as they were only made in 17/18 should be correct.

There is also a recent RAF marked bayonet that has shown up on the GB forum which your are already aware of JMB but I do not think it has been added to the list yet.

1A 1603, there is a good photo of it on the GB forum, so I did not add another photo of it here.

Cheers,

TR

 

RAF1E4044.jpg

RAF1E4950.jpg

Vic218.jpg

Edited by t.ryan
Add extra info.
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