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Remembered Today:

Stoppage Drill

Who is This ? ? ?

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voltaire60
58 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

It could well be argued (by me, anyway) that the history of any major event cannot be completed until all those who have taken part in it have died, since their experiences are influenced by their recollections of their part in it and cannot, therefore, be regarded as technically unbiased.

 

We have to begin by re-naming Captain Dunn's famous book as "The War in France that 2nd Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers Knew."

 

Ron

 

   Thanks Ron- I must, I fear, correct you on one small point  . The sub-title of Captain Dunn's book is " Chronicle of Service in France and Belgium"- not just France.  Dunn's book is a case in point of one issue. He compiled it AFTER the war (Book published 1930-something)with access to his own and the other diaries of which he had use Nothing Dunn has is-as far as I  know- not founded on first-hand account. There are problems with the selection of the records of others by him A literary amalgam represents the outlook of the editor, rather than than a value-free selection based on a true reflection of diaries. A modern editor using the same materials might pull together a completely different selection. 

    As to the  view that recollections by those who are involved are biased- well, yes of course they are.  What concerns me is that "recollections" vary across the passage of time.  A recurring problem with oral history is that the interviewee may give the answers that the interviewer wishes to hear- let alone the problem of how the interviewer phrases the question (best exemplified by Caroline Aherne as Mrs Merton to Debbie McGee-"What was it that first attracted you to multi-millionaire Paul Daniels?).  

 

     I have an example of this in my own family. My dear old Dad was an airborne signaller at Arnhem- Royal Corps of Signals, went in on Day 2,wounded by German flak on the way in). A humble private-spoke very little about it and died the year after "A Bridge Too Far" came along at the cinema. He was critical of the Cornelius Ryan book as it was officer-centric and one officer in particular- not long departed- who often pops up in accounts of Arnhem. I will not name him on GWF but you may take an informed guess. Dad used to say that this man had a very selective memory and most of his encounters with this man showed him as not so glorious  (And anyone who has seen-yet again on Junko TV the D-Day episode of "World at War" must come close to retching as Mountbatten gives a glossed version of his role in Dieppe and  how it was all part of his wonderful master plan- Ludo Kennedy's pen portrait of him in "On My Way to the Club"  lances that particular unctuous ego).  

     But "History" is what we choose to regard as "true".  I like very much the "Great War" interviews-if only because-as Edwardians- all the Brits. in it speak as we would expect them to speak-plummy as with Henry Williamson and "Gor Blimey" from the Other Ranks. Also liked the "Game of Ghosts" stuff-where the "selection" was more by the chance of longevity (and lack of ga-ga)  which came across as convincing.  [And as it is on another thread at the moment- my understanding of the importance of the Great War intervews of the 1960s would be much better if the BBC paperwork about it-eg What Questions to Ask?- was freely available)

   One of my favourite films is the 1946 "Best years of Our Lives"-mawkish,sentimental and stylised by our outlook of today but -just perhaps- there were many of the Great War who felt the same. Certainly, my relatives and neighbours of the Second World War generation regarded it as so- despite the miseries and hardships. I suspect that it was so for the Great War as well but the narrative of the grim Western Front is the one that prevails.

Edited by voltaire60

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Uncle George

The chap on the left here had a very interesting and busy war. And, indeed, an interesting and busy life. As an officer in the Royal Marines he was captured at Antwerp; but he did not remain a prisoner of war for long. He ended the Second war as an RAF Group Captain.

 

The officer on the right also had an interesting time. Who are they ? ? ?

 

 

image.jpg

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Nepper

Chap on the right looks like George VI.

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Uncle George
59 minutes ago, Nepper said:

Chap on the right looks like George VI.

 

'Tis him - well spotted (I don't think I'd have recognised him, had I not seen the photograph's caption). I see he was the first member of the royal family to qualify as a pilot. 

 

And now he's been identified ...

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Uncle George

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Ron Clifton

Wasn't Louis Greig also George VI's tennis partner at Wimbledon?

EDIT: Yes - see first link above.

 

Ron

Edited by Ron Clifton

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Nepper
5 hours ago, Uncle George said:

I see that the Daily Fail with its immaculate reputation for accuracy also manages to identify Greig as Edward VIII http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5035979/Air-throne-100-years-Royal-flight-celebrated.html

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rolt968

Another cricketer:

cricket1913b.jpg.91cf9960b191b8372c95ef0248a1fe59.jpg

Who is the young man in the multi-coloured blazer? (A special reservist and got a mention.)

RM

Edited by rolt968

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Uncle George
17 hours ago, Nepper said:

I see that the Daily Fail with its immaculate reputation for accuracy also manages to identify Greig as Edward VIII http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5035979/Air-throne-100-years-Royal-flight-celebrated.html

 

I see that Paul Dacre lives at Langwell, once the residence of the Duke of Portland. The Duke and this estate are described in lengthy and unctuous terms by Robertson in the last chapter of 'From Private to Field Marshal'. Perhaps he is trying to show how far he has come, but it's all a little embarrassing:

 

" ... The Duke is not only an excellent all-round sportsman himself, but does everything he can to ensure that his guests have good sport and plenty of it. Whenever I go to Langwell, or think of the pleasant days I have spent there, I find it difficult not to break the tenth commandment." For the benefit of any Wykehamists [and so on].

  

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rolt968
37 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

A good try. My man was a little younger. The photo was taken in 1913. His captain was sitting on his left (trimmed off by me).

He was a Cricketer of the Year.

His family were quite horsey. I think both he and his father were MFHs.

A hussar attached to lancers.

Arrived in theatre 17 August 1914.

RM

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seaJane
On 31/05/2018 at 11:21, Uncle George said:

The chap on the left in #10177 was called Louis Greig. (Image from a Wills's cigarette card)

Louis Greig started life as one of mine (naval surgeon). 

sJ

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rolt968
On ‎01‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 19:49, rolt968 said:

A good try. My man was a little younger. The photo was taken in 1913. His captain was sitting on his left (trimmed off by me).

He was a Cricketer of the Year.

His family were quite horsey. I think both he and his father were MFHs.

A hussar attached to lancers.

Arrived in theatre 17 August 1914.

RM

His last pre-war match, which he had to leave as he had been mobilised is supposed to have been fictionalised (?)  in Alec Waugh's Loom of Youth.

RM

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Knotty

That was a toughy RM, but I’m now convinced it is Arthur William Carr, 5th Irish Lancers 1914-18, and Cricketer of the year 1923 playing for Nottinghamshire.

Allegedly Lovelace Major in Alec Waugh’s The Loom of Youth.

 

John

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rolt968
7 hours ago, Knotty said:

That was a toughy RM, but I’m now convinced it is Arthur William Carr, 5th Irish Lancers 1914-18, and Cricketer of the year 1923 playing for Nottinghamshire.

Allegedly Lovelace Major in Alec Waugh’s The Loom of Youth.

 

John

Very well done!

 

A W Carr, 1893-1963, 20th Hussars attached 5th Lancers. Captain of Nottinghamshire 1919-1934 (He captained for a few matches in 1914 - including in the match against Surrey at the Oval which he had to leave when mobilised.) Played for England occasionally and briefly captain.

 

One of the architects if not the architect of "Bodyline". (My next clue would have had something to do with unpopularity in Australia.)

 

He had an enviable record as captain of Nottinghamshire: 369 matches; won 168; lost 56; drawn 145.

 

The picture comes from Nottinghamshire Cricketers on Old Picture Postcards (Jennings) again. In most of the post war pictures he is very thin on top.

All other information from Arthur Carr: The Rise and Fall of Nottinghamshire's Bodyline Captain. (Wynne-Thomas).

RM

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voltaire60

 

And this chap?  (No, it's its i'ts   he is not George Formby Jr., despite leaning on a lamppost at the corner of the street). One of the more unconsidered army commanders of the Great War

 

Image result for thailand general first world war

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Ron Clifton

Not difficult to Thai this one down!

 

Ron

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Uncle George
10 hours ago, voltaire60 said:

 

 ... despite leaning on a lamppost at the corner of the street ...

 

 

This is a multi-layered clue of fiendish complexity. After unravelling the puzzle of almost Gordian impenetrability one arrives at Sepp Dietrich.

 

52 minutes ago, Margaretnolan said:

Just click on the photo...

 

Oh, wait ...  

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voltaire60

 

UG- You have ascribed too great a level of delphic mystification to me. Yes, as a Plymptonian,I can be unintelligible but,please, don't confuse Devonian gibberish with anything more sophisticated.

    The clue is not delphic-it's the only photo of the chap I could find- the lamppost was an un-optional extra.   

 

Alas, not  Sepp Dietrich- though it would  be a major piece of revisionist history if Dietrich had served  in the armed forces of this particular country. Or vice versa.  

One of the lesser Allied and Associated Powers.  But let's make this easy-  This Ally came under French operational command. CWGC has no graves to care for from this country's casualties. A very interesting sideline of the Great War on the Western Front.

 

    Anyway, if the trail from lamppost got you as far as  Germany, then I can advise you it is not Lily Marlene. Just click the pic!!

Edited by voltaire60

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Uncle George
On 5 June 2018 at 01:15, voltaire60 said:

 

And this chap?  (No, it's its i'ts   he is not George Formby Jr., despite leaning on a lamppost at the corner of the street). One of the more unconsidered army commanders of the Great War

 

 

It is surprising to learn of the condescending, arrogant way this man's army was treated by the French. But perhaps one should not be too surprised:

 

" ... in the Armee d'Afrique enlisted men had to learn French if they hoped for any advancement; in the Indian Army, all British regimental officers were obliged to learn the relevant Indian languages." Quote from Martin Windrow's 'The Last Valley' (2005).

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Nepper
On 06/06/2018 at 11:06, Uncle George said:

 

It is surprising to learn of the condescending, arrogant way this man's army was treated by the French. But perhaps one should not be too surprised:

 

" ... in the Armee d'Afrique enlisted men had to learn French if they hoped for any advancement; in the Indian Army, all British regimental officers were obliged to learn the relevant Indian languages." Quote from Martin Windrow's 'The Last Valley' (2005).

When I was researching Eustace Jotham I found he spent some time as a double company officer in the 51st Sikhs because his Punjabi wasn't yet at the required standard for him to take command of a platoon.

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Uncle George
3 hours ago, Nepper said:

When I was researching Eustace Jotham I found he spent some time as a double company officer in the 51st Sikhs because his Punjabi wasn't yet at the required standard for him to take command of a platoon.

 

In his memoirs Wullie tells us that he learned Hindi, Urdu, Persian, Punjabi and Pushtu. But, "A knowledge of oriental languages did not at the time appear to be of much professional use as the regiment [3rd Dragoon Guards] was shortly due to go to South Africa.... "

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voltaire60

And this chap/   Probably been round before.   His Great War  service record  was very,very unusual-to say the least.  Especially the Spanish bit

 

soldier.jpg

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Fattyowls

He has, but it is such a good story that it is worth a re-run......

 

Pete.

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