Michael Haselgrove Posted 3 October , 2017 Share Posted 3 October , 2017 Julian & The Prussian, Many thanks for your replies and apologies for the delay in my acknowledgement. Well, the frakturs on the bayonet/scabbard don't seem to match - I attach photos in case they are of interest. Having said that, I am uncertain how useful a comparison of frakturs is in deciding whether a bayonet and scabbard started life together and any comments in this respect will be appreciated. For instance, does anyone have an example of a bayonet/scabbard with matching regimental markings and not-matching frakturs? Also, I suppose quite a lot of scabbards/bayonets were replaced during service so a bayonet/scabbard with non-matching frakturs may well have been used in service in that configuration. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 7 October , 2017 Share Posted 7 October , 2017 Any ideas on thesemarlings chaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 13 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2017 On 10/3/2017 at 22:15, Michael Haselgrove said: ... Well, the frakturs on the bayonet/scabbard don't seem to match - I attach photos in case they are of interest. Having said that, I am uncertain how useful a comparison of frakturs is in deciding whether a bayonet and scabbard started life together and any comments in this respect will be appreciated. For instance, does anyone have an example of a bayonet/scabbard with matching regimental markings and not-matching frakturs? Also, I suppose quite a lot of scabbards/bayonets were replaced during service so a bayonet/scabbard with non-matching frakturs may well have been used in service in that configuration. My turn to apologise for a tardiness in replying! I am honestly quite in the dark about how scabbards were inspected, and it would of course be quite wrong to assume that they were inspected when fitted to a bayonet, and so checked by the same person. This would be especially true with regard to leather scabbards. So, unless somebody can come up with - to paraphrase you - an example of a bayonet/leather scabbard with matching regimental markings and matching frakturs, perhaps best to steer clear of the topic! Having said that, though, your pommel markings are quite intriguing - I have not seen mismatched ones before! Again, I am in the dark on the inspection process involved with Imperial German bayonets, but assume that the system was similar to GB and French practice, the bayonet being inspected at different stages in the manufacturing process, and stamped accordingly. This is also indicated by the location of the 'RC' marks, all of the ones that I have seen being positioned between the usual two frakturs on the pommel. On the same subject, if I recall correctly, frakturs on the Ersatz jobs seem to be a bit haphazard, usually just the spine, sometimes the blade, and normally one only. And without looking (away from home), I think most of my S.84/98's have a single pommel fraktur, which is odd considering that S.98/05's produced throughout the GW normally have the 'regulation' two on the pommel. Best regards, Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 13 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2017 On 10/7/2017 at 08:28, sawdoc34 said: Any ideas on thesemarlings chaps? Hi Aleck! These look interesting and I know I have seen something similar somewhere... Just need time to get the relevant memory cells in action! Offhand, the matching ricasso and scabbard marks remind me of the examples found on some S.98/05's, an example of which you posted 2-3 years back - but I don't think any explanation was forthcoming for those. The crossguard marks though - perhaps they forgot to put an 'R' in after the 13? (or is it 15???!!!) The crossed-out scabbard marks have a Bavarian look about them. There are a fair few Bavarian bayonets that have simple number sequences or just numbers of that sort. All the best! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 13 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2017 Aha - overlooked this one... Carter 3, p.390, and EB 35 marked "I.E.B.15.9.609" - Infanterie Regiment Nr. 15, 1st Ersatz Batailion, 9.Kompagnie, Waffe Nr. 609. So, is yours a '13' or a '15'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 October , 2017 Share Posted 14 October , 2017 Hello Trajan, Maybe You will help me with my recent finding. I came acro ss bayonete model 84/98. From what I managed to find out this is Prussian army piece from 1906. I think it's from Wilhelm II reign. There is (W )letter under crown and it was made by J.A.Henckels A.G. Zwillingswerk, Solingen. I was checking Prussian unit markings and that is hard part. On bayonete is stamp 2.P.U.6.19 Can You help with that? Regards Zdanek84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 14 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 14 October , 2017 Hi Zdanek84! Welcome to the GWForum! This is a nice and also a very odd marking - one with a formula I have not seen before! As an S.84/98 and a W/16, then the marking should conform to the 1909 regulations, which give: 'P' for - Pionier, Provinat, Pferde (-Depot), Park (Jaeger oder Grenadier-Regiment-) zu Pferde; and 'U'' for: Ulan, Unteroffiziervorschule; Kavallerie-Unteroffiziervorschule. So, '2.P.U.6.19' - can't find a parallel in my listings (which are not complete - at 5,409!)... It can't / is unlikely to be Pioneer as it is not a sawback - and I don't think (off-hand, without checking) they received 84/98's... But cavalry did! The last part of formula used here ('6.19') is regular - a company/squadron number and weapon number. So, just possibly 2.Ulan Kavellerie-Unteroffiziervorschule, but was there such an entity? I doubt it! Or 2.Ulan.Pferde-depot, but did/would they have squadrons to explain the '6.19'? Whatever, a nice one to have - and as usual, I am happy to be corrected on my analysis! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 October , 2017 Share Posted 16 October , 2017 Hello Trajan, Thank You for some more information. Scabbard lacks any markings so it is not very helpful. Can this be marking of some Prussian unit consisting of Poles (something like 2 Pulk Ulanow) or names were always in german? If I should provide some better photos I am happy to do that. Just let me know. I will also try to ask in Warsaw war museum( maybe they have some info on that) We will see. Thank You. Zdanek84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAL Posted 24 October , 2017 Share Posted 24 October , 2017 It looks like a wartime marking. As the 2. looks smaller than the 6., it is most probably: 2. Pionier-Zug of the 6. Uhlanen-Regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gernika Posted 24 December , 2017 Share Posted 24 December , 2017 Hi I have any German bayonets stamped more or less identified, with the exception of P.U.W.126 marked in a S84/98 n.a. Saw any idea ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 December , 2017 Author Share Posted 25 December , 2017 Hi Gernika, Welcome to GWForum - but what a way to do so - and to start to Xmas Day! Certainly an odd one! With just the three numbers then something not organised on a multiple-sub-unit basis, i.e., something lacking companies, as with a Recruiting Depot - which this isn't... Best I can think of offhand is "Potsdam Unteroffizierschule" - but why the "W"? Perhaps "Werkstatt"? Whatever it is, do feel free to post some more unit-marked ones, identified or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 January , 2018 Share Posted 6 January , 2018 (edited) hello, i want to wish all of you a happy new and i want to thank you for all the time and dedication you spent, helping guys like me to learn more about the history of of our beloved bayonets. a few days ago I bought a german m1871 ( from 1875) but despit several hours of research i cannot identify the unit markings . so i thought maybe someone of you can help me out:) Ps: blade and scabbarb have matching serial numbers Edited 6 January , 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 6 January , 2018 Share Posted 6 January , 2018 (edited) Hello Felix! A happy new year to you too! VI.G.B.I.3.227 Garnisons-Bataillon (Garrisson-Bataillon) Nr.1 of VI. Army-Corps, 3rd company, weapon 227. There were different garissons in that corps: Breslau, Neiße, Glatz, Brieg, Cosel, Schweidnitz, Oels, Ratibor Edited 7 January , 2018 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 January , 2018 Share Posted 6 January , 2018 The Prussian, wow that was fast, thank you for your reply👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 7 January , 2018 Share Posted 7 January , 2018 To the background: Those Garrisson-Bataillons were formed first in december 1870 to observe the french POWs. There were 9 guard and 70 Province-Garrisson-Bataillons with 3 companies each. They were demobilized in match 1871. Later these bataillons should be responsible for the reinforcements of troops for an upcoming war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerMS Posted 1 March , 2018 Share Posted 1 March , 2018 Hello! I also would like to present two of my bayonets here and see if someone can help me identify their markings? They are two SG71 in bad condition. The first is a bavarian one without acceptance-mark or year on the blade. I think it means B.1.R.8.119. (Königlich Bayerisches 1. Infanterieregiment “König”, 8. Kompagnie, Waffe 119)? On the other side is a number 6848. The other I can’t read. It may be 8 T 7 5 1, but I’m not sure. What could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2018 (edited) On 1/6/2018 at 21:19, Felix V. said: Ps: blade and scabbarb have matching serial numbers A very nice piece that! On 3/2/2018 at 00:55, DerMS said: .... B.1.R.8.119. (Königlich Bayerisches 1. Infanterieregiment “König”, 8. Kompagnie, Waffe 119)? On the other side is a number 6848. The other I can’t read. It may be 8 T 7 5 1, but I’m not sure. What could it be? I think that you are right on the first. As for the second, I don't have my copy of the older regulations to hand but I will make a guess to be going on with - '8 Train (Abteilung) Waffe 7151', unlikely, I know, but weapons were continuously numbered as issued to units! Or, '8 Train (Abteilung) 7 Komp. Waffe 151'. But that is also unlikely, I suspect, as I don't Train units had companes... Edited 3 March , 2018 by trajan correct numerous spelling errors in bold underline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted 3 March , 2018 Share Posted 3 March , 2018 Hi, before 1st April 1914 you had Train-Bataillone divided into Train-Kompanien. After 1st April 1914 you had Train-Abteilungen divided into Train-Eskadrone. GreyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2018 3 hours ago, GreyC said: Hi, before 1st April 1914 you had Train-Bataillone divided into Train-Kompanien. After 1st April 1914 you had Train-Abteilungen divided into Train-Eskadrone. GreyC Many thanks GreyC! And I think I have it now - 1877 and 1897 regulations: 8 Train-Bataillon 7 Komp. Waffe 151 - and I think the 8th is Rheinische? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerMS Posted 5 March , 2018 Share Posted 5 March , 2018 Thank you very much!! I appreciate your help. Later I will present the other bayonets I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2018 Looking orward DerMS - I love a challenge and especially love being corrected where necessary by my German colleagues - seriously, GreyC and others, as it all adds to widening the knowledge pool! Funnily enough I picked up an S.71 last week - no unit marks, but a reasonably nice GEBR SIMSON / SUHL, marked W/77. I have five now, but no scabbards... And will probably dispose of the first one I bought as no markings at all! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 6 March , 2018 Share Posted 6 March , 2018 Julian,. You´re right with "Rheinisch". The 8th Train stood first in Ehrenbreitstein, later in Coblenz (today Koblenz) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2018 Thanks Andy! I have fond memories of 'Am deutsche Eck' from my Ph.D. field research days - Roman forts on the Rhine plus Augustan camps and forts penetrating Germania. No, they never got into the finished work - but it was a great time researching them just in case!!! BUT, back on topic - it is good fun to see the wide variety of bayonets and bayonet markings this thread has produced. And I really do need to get down to looking at the main sets of regulations for the tiny differences that indicate, for example, when a pre-1909 bayonet has been marked 1897 or earlier or later - some are obvious, but others - like 'K.E.R.' (or 'K.A.R.'!) - are not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 March , 2018 Share Posted 27 March , 2018 Hi all, I’m new here, I just inhereted this german m1871 (I’m pretty sure it’s a m1871) bayonet. I was wondering if any of you guys could help me out with identifying the regimental marking on this. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 27 March , 2018 Share Posted 27 March , 2018 Hello Gavib! Welcome to the forum!!! #1: Baden Gren.Rgt.110, 1st comp., weapon 215 #2: Train-Bataillon 21, 2nd comp., weapon 85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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