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Remembered Today:

German Unit Bayonet Markings


trajan

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Greetings Gents,

 

Been on the road and did not possess time to respond earlier. Thank you, all for your thoughts. Yes, it does have the 1920 and demill "V" cut to the pommel's base. These markings now makes sense with the Police connection.

 

No idea of the manufacturer or date made as they were not pictured in the seller's images. It had already sold.

 

Thanks again, gents!

 

V/r Lance

Edited by militariaone
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That 1920 marking and V-notch all makes sense.

 

I still have work to do on the history of the 1920 marked ones, but off-hand, I think the marking was only required on those weapons possessed by the Reichswehr - thebayonet  Versailles Treaty does not, IIRC, mention an armed police force, just banned the police from military training. So, this could have gone from the Reichswehr to the police and was then given the V-notch so that it was not longer a military weapon - but don't quote me on that! All the relevant source material is in German and it would take me a while to work through it...

 

Julian

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi everyone

 

Being new to the forum (and new to collecting bayonets), I thought I’d share a few pics of two recent acquisitions to my small collection. 

 

German 1871, with regimental marks 66.R.R.6.211

 

5B509558-BFDD-4420-B45B-B341007C581C.jpeg.8485393e73251db364e994b4eea828fa.jpegA6C6A18E-8D4C-4617-B146-AC7EFCD677B6.jpeg.05fe8a691956df672aeb52f00f52240d.jpegCA6BBFF8-15C1-4576-A72E-F41668D6EF88.jpeg.7add468e9dba9d908b75b234243b417e.jpeg

 

 

Second, a German S98, WK & C, with regimental marks 180.R.6.205 and scabbard marked 71.R.11.256

 

85EEAE20-3FE9-44A5-A2A4-E1BB9EB6209B.jpeg.a137a48582b0afba0b43748b56900dcd.jpegA6BB2770-A748-4668-9BB2-BB224F5884F9.jpeg.5840cfac856db61f6d4d7709119ccf4a.jpeg43471B0C-3167-4C29-B086-1FDF082293DD.jpeg.4868bfdaae296eaa2ae6628e78109d13.jpeg

 

This is a great thread, and it’s an honour to be able to share with you! 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 09/07/2018 at 08:39, ColdKiwi said:

Hi everyone

 

Being new to the forum (and new to collecting bayonets), I thought I’d share a few pics of two recent acquisitions to my small collection. 

 

German 1871, with regimental marks 66.R.R.6.211

 

5B509558-BFDD-4420-B45B-B341007C581C.jpeg.8485393e73251db364e994b4eea828fa.jpegA6C6A18E-8D4C-4617-B146-AC7EFCD677B6.jpeg.05fe8a691956df672aeb52f00f52240d.jpegCA6BBFF8-15C1-4576-A72E-F41668D6EF88.jpeg.7add468e9dba9d908b75b234243b417e.jpeg

 

 

Second, a German S98, WK & C, with regimental marks 180.R.6.205 and scabbard marked 71.R.11.256

 

85EEAE20-3FE9-44A5-A2A4-E1BB9EB6209B.jpeg.a137a48582b0afba0b43748b56900dcd.jpegA6BB2770-A748-4668-9BB2-BB224F5884F9.jpeg.5840cfac856db61f6d4d7709119ccf4a.jpeg43471B0C-3167-4C29-B086-1FDF082293DD.jpeg.4868bfdaae296eaa2ae6628e78109d13.jpeg

 

This is a great thread, and it’s an honour to be able to share with you! 

 

Welcome! And a nice pair of bayonets! Looking forward to seeing more!

 

And in case you don't know, your S.71, '66.R.R.6.211', is for the 66 Reserve Infanterie Regiment, 6 Kompagnie, Waffe 211, the 180.R.6.205 for the 180 Infanterie Regiment 6 Kompagnie Waffe 205, and the 71.R.11.256 for the 71 Infanterie Regiment 11 Kompagnie Waffe 256. There are brief accounts of all three units but in German as follows:

3. Magdeburgisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 66 - http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/IR_66

10. Württembergisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.180 - http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/IR_180

3. Thüringisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 71- http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/IR_71

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for the info, Trajan! 

I also have just been offered a regimental marked chassepot bayonet, marked 117.L.H.5.??? (Can’t make out from photo seller provided).

Being new to the game, I’ve tried to find out more on this one and am wondering if this is likely a pre-WW1 captured bayonet converted to a side arm? And could L.H be landwehr hussar? 

 

4BB39AB0-F3C0-4358-8377-1C1F9875EA52.png.1b8d7fad93fa0f4fb96e80c4633ff0f2.png

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  • 3 weeks later...

Have three scabbards that have regimental marking i would like identified. Unfortunately I don't have the bayonets to go with them. One says 86.R.E.3.75.. The next one says B.4.R.R.3.44.. The last one says 37.R.1.19. and it is crossed out.

image1.jpeg

image2.jpeg

image3.jpeg

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On 19/08/2018 at 22:10, ColdKiwi said:

... I also have just been offered a regimental marked chassepot bayonet, marked 117.L.H.5.??? (Can’t make out from photo seller provided).

Being new to the game, I’ve tried to find out more on this one and am wondering if this is likely a pre-WW1 captured bayonet converted to a side arm? And could L.H be landwehr hussar? 

 

4BB39AB0-F3C0-4358-8377-1C1F9875EA52.png.1b8d7fad93fa0f4fb96e80c4633ff0f2.png

 

Yes, a capture re-purposed for German use, and so maybe with a modified pommel to fit a German rifle. However, correct reading is 117.L.II.5.???  The relative size of the letters and numbers is always important and especially important here, and that is not an 'H' as it is NOT the same size as the 'L', but a 'II' with a scar running over it below the mid-way point making it look like an 'H'.

 

So I think this is marked according to the 1877 regulations, and is for Landsturm Bataillon Luebeck (2nd Hanseatisches Landwehr-Regiment Nr.76, 2 Bataillon), 5 Kompagnie Waffe... That said, the 1877 Regulations do specify that there should be an italic capital 'L' above the marking, which is absent here - presumably because

it is a bayonet and the cross-guard to narrow to allow this? 

 

Julian

 

 

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18 hours ago, SLICK50JMB said:

Have three scabbards that have regimental marking i would like identified. Unfortunately I don't have the bayonets to go with them. One says 86.R.E.3.75.. The next one says B.4.R.R.3.44.. The last one says 37.R.1.19. and it is crossed out.

image1.jpeg

image2.jpeg

image3.jpeg

 

Hi, and welcome to the GWForum!

 

What bayonets are these scabbard lockets for? I have an idea but would like to be sure!

 

The Prussians and Bavarians both issued various regulations for weapons markings between 1877 and 1909, and frequently up-dated these. I don't have the full set, but let's see what these ones are.

 

86.R.E.3.75. = 1877 Regulations, Ersatz Bataillon, Infanterie Regiment 86, 3 Kompagnie, Waffe 75.

 

B.4.R.R.3.44. = (Note italic 'R') 1877 Regulations, Bayerisches Reserve Infanterie Regiment 4, 3 Kompagnie, Waffe 44

 

37.R.1.19.  = (stamped on the 'wrong' side - should be on the 'back' of the locket!) 1877 or 1909 Regulations, 37 Infanterie Regiment 1 Kompagnie, Waffe 19.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Trajan

 

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6 hours ago, trajan said:

 

Hi, and welcome to the GWForum!

 

What bayonets are these scabbard lockets for? I have an idea but would like to be sure!

 

The Prussians and Bavarians both issued various regulations for weapons markings between 1877 and 1909, and frequently up-dated these. I don't have the full set, but let's see what these ones are.

 

86.R.E.3.75. = 1877 Regulations, Ersatz Bataillon, Infanterie Regiment 86, 3 Kompagnie, Waffe 75.

 

B.4.R.R.3.44. = (Note italic 'R') 1877 Regulations, Bayerisches Reserve Infanterie Regiment 4, 3 Kompagnie, Waffe 44

 

37.R.1.19.  = (stamped on the 'wrong' side - should be on the 'back' of the locket!) 1877 or 1909 Regulations, 37 Infanterie Regiment 1 Kompagnie, Waffe 19.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Trajan

 

Unfortunately I do not know the bayonet that went with these scabbard. The were both bought by them selves and did not come with a blade. If I had to hazard a guess they are probably for a M1871/84 or for a M1884/98 bayonet but like I said not a 100% sure. As for the brass fitting I believe it is off of a M1871 bayonet scabbard. I bought it from a guy from Latvia. He said he found it buried in the ground on a old battlefield. It was in pretty rough shape when I bought it. Took me awhile to clean it up. I also have a fully intact M1871 scabbard and bayonet with regimental markings if you would like to see.

Edited by SLICK50JMB
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11 hours ago, SLICK50JMB said:

Unfortunately I do not know the bayonet that went with these scabbard. The were both bought by them selves and did not come with a blade. If I had to hazard a guess they are probably for a M1871/84 or for a M1884/98 bayonet but like I said not a 100% sure. As for the brass fitting I believe it is off of a M1871 bayonet scabbard. I bought it from a guy from Latvia. He said he found it buried in the ground on a old battlefield. It was in pretty rough shape when I bought it. Took me awhile to clean it up. I also have a fully intact M1871 scabbard and bayonet with regimental markings if you would like to see.

 

The top two certainly look like they might be for S.71/84's - the blade width and thickness should tell. I would agree the brass one probably a S.71 or something similar. Yes, please do show us your complete example!

 

Julian

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3 hours ago, RAL said:

The first two are from long S98 scabbards; the bottom one is from an S71 scabbard .

 

Could well be - the lip on the top of the S.98 locket is thicker than on the S.71/84, etc.:thumbsup:

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  • 4 weeks later...

S.K.251

Not stamped as usual 

IMG_5120.jpg

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On 02/10/2018 at 20:38, Gernika said:

S.K.251

Not stamped as usual 

IMG_5120.jpg

 

Certainly not stamped as usual!

 

More photographs would help! But at the back of my mind, SK is found on some Stahlblum 98/05 bayonets - but this is a 84/98?

 

Looks to be an interesting piece so please show more. It has a flashguard and so is post summer 1915...

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84/98 n.a.S.

Double maker stamp.

leather sacabbard

flashguard...

54FD752A-94CC-462E-ABD9-2CE2B02C82C9.jpeg

DFA23679-060F-4215-9CBA-49EF9CF2F507.jpeg

2A996809-C800-47CA-94E0-2022AE61DEA7.jpeg

693A392C-4585-4291-951C-3FFEF6A3FE2F.jpeg

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  • 2 months later...

Another similar unit marking, as Aleck's 98/05 unit marked bayonet. 

Regards

D. 7146863.423666979.jpg.c6b923f321ae019194ced4c42d53bef1.jpg7146863.1382713632.jpg.d8acd640a1525c2b3f7e0bdd496d00c9.jpg7146863.99483689.jpg.c45c4eef66b1e6814fcfc19993f92cb2.jpg

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New 98/05 a.A just home arrived from France.

Need work but be a nice bayonet.

I purchased it by the “ inmatriculation” as frech say.

B.1.J.E. and W15.

Well....not Bavarian so I guess B for batallion, but with so low number and not weapon digit....could be Jaeger Ersatz ??

Any idea is welcomed.

 

AB798336-8FB8-45E7-8E7F-F7F5D7781202.jpeg

BC92E2FE-1E99-4774-89FD-CDCD354D1BB7.jpeg

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On 05/05/2018 at 17:58, trajan said:

 

S.98/05 were not normally issued to Flieger groups - but all officers were supposed to carry 98/05 after they were told in 1915 (I think!) to exchange their swords for these and use the 98/05 instead. I have seen photographs of men wearing a 98/05 with attached symbols on the grips, usually in the form of an elaborate monogram for WR, "Wilhelm Rex", but not one quite like this. However, if I remember correctly, in the post-1918 period, men who had a certain amount of service in the Reichsheer of the Great War and now served with the Reichswehr were allowed to carry their original service weapons instead of the S.84/98, so perhaps this is one of thos?

Also soldiers with father died during WW1 were allowed to carry inherited bayonets as extra bayonet.

On 05/05/2018 at 18:01, trajan said:

 

Need a full length photograph, Steve, when you can.  That is a very high muzzle ring and not immediately clear what it was intended for - and the rivets for the grips are odd...

Spanish 1893 bayonet.

II Republic unknown stamp.

 

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Oh my Lord, this seems to be a “deja-vu”

zuluwar2006 bayonet.

my new 98/05a.A

 

 

D5CB4F2C-79C3-4820-8215-E71631825D80.jpeg

88367730-3F2D-4D87-A94A-97B84AFB0C71.jpeg

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Ersatz Company of the Bavarian 1st Jäger Batallion.

The Bavarian did buy bayonets in Prussian, hence the W15.

Unfortunately this one here has replaced  bolts.

Edited by RAL
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Yes, one grip and one bolt, have spares.

Thank you that was my idea about this stamp.

 

Edited by Gernika
Dddd
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7 minutes ago, RAL said:

Ersatz Company of the Bavarian 1st Jäger Batallion. ... The Bavarian did buy bayonets in Prussian, hence the W15.

 

Matter of supply problems... Prussia was producing 98/05's before Bavaria at the time these were introduced into general service in late 1914/early 1915. 

 

Note - more to the point - the unit number is 'upside down' compared to a Prussian etc. bayonet, i.e., a Prussian etc. bayonet can usually be read as normal, with hilt uppermost, Bavarian ones are the other way around, to be read with the blade point upwards. That and the 'B' prefix are the give-aways that this is a Bavarian one. Oh and this one should be a pre-September or so product given the absence of the flash-guard and presence of the 'high ears'.

 

Trajan

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20 minutes ago, Gernika said:

Oh my Lord, this seems to be a “deja-vu”

zuluwar2006 bayonet.

my new 98/05a.A

 

 

D5CB4F2C-79C3-4820-8215-E71631825D80.jpeg

88367730-3F2D-4D87-A94A-97B84AFB0C71.jpeg

Dear Gernica,

First of all a very rare 98/05 you have got, gongratulations. 

Here are 2 more 98/05 bayonets from my collection with similar unit markings. 

Very rare indeed all of them. 

Regards

D. 

20180807_203603.jpg.ecccf65ff71bd6993c8ded4e3314e96a.jpg

319904943_20180602_1852341.jpg.52a3d7f8bc080e8248c468053478f38b.jpg

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13 minutes ago, RAL said:

Also need a new flash hider.

 

NO! This was made without a flashguard! These flashguards were introduced - as above - in September 1915, and in Bavaria after 25th September. If a flashguard had been retro-fitted then the 'high ears' would probably have been removed at the same time...

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