SLICK50JMB Posted 12 May , 2017 Share Posted 12 May , 2017 (edited) I have a bayonet and a scabbard that I need the regimental markings deciphered. One is a scabbard for a M1898/05 and the other one is the blade that I bought separately. Both are different. Hope someone here can help me. Edited 12 May , 2017 by SLICK50JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2017 Welcome to GWF! The bayonet looks to be marked P.30.E.B.1.230., and so to the Ersatz Pionier-Batallion 30, 1 Company, weapon no. 230. I have one other listed for this unit - P.30.E.B.3.74. on a 1915-made 98/05 mit Sage, so a sawback, and one other marked P.30.E.B.3.192. also a 1915 but not a sawback. There is a photograph of the unit at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/4kleuren/7610433322/ For my records, I'd like to know the maker and the year of issue of yours, if you will. The scabbard (is this the same bayonet? The grip is a different colour!), 5./J.R.16.116., is a post 1921/1922 Weimar army marking, for the 5th Infantry Regiment. The mark should date to before 1934 or so, if I recall correctly, when the 'new' Wehrmacht stopped unit-marking weapons. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalni Posted 13 May , 2017 Share Posted 13 May , 2017 Not sure if I posted this before but this is a nice S84/98Aa i recently acquired with different unit marks on the bayonet and the frog.Dated W88. Bayonet marked 6RR28 Scabbard marked 67RE4 239 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 13 May , 2017 Share Posted 13 May , 2017 Hello! #1: Ersatz-Bataillon of Inf.Rgt.67, 4th comp., weapon 23? #2: Rekruten-Depot of Inf.Rgt.6, weapon 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 14 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2017 Spot on Andy with the 6.R.R.28, which is also listed in Williams vol1, p.339! Made / issued in 1888. The scabbard is also as you say - 67.R.E.4.239, Inf.Rgt.67, 4. Komp, weapon 239 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 Hello and awesome thread, and thanks to that I managed solve unit code. Maybe side railing with my new germanified french chassepot bayonet. 13.L.I.4.16 = 13th Landswehr-Infanterie-Regiment, 4th kompanie, weapon 16. Those double stamped L and I letters did confused me a lot at first. Found unit link as well http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/LIR_13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 Hello! This is Second bataillon (II.), Landwehr-Rgt.13, 4th comp., weapon 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2017 On 5/18/2017 at 04:21, Verikauha said: Hello and awesome thread, and thanks to that I managed solve unit code. Maybe side railing with my new germanified french chassepot bayonet. 13.L.I.4.16 = 13th Landswehr-Infanterie-Regiment, 4th kompanie, weapon 16. Those double stamped L and I letters did confused me a lot at first. Found unit link as well http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/LIR_13 That's a nice find! I am away from home at the moment and will check wehen I get back to Turkey, if I remember(!), but the scabbard frog stud looks German to me... And, as Andi says, II Bataillon... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberg Posted 31 May , 2017 Share Posted 31 May , 2017 On 12.5.2017 at 19:04, trajan said: Welcome to GWF! The scabbard (is this the same bayonet? The grip is a different colour!), 5./J.R.16.116., is a post 1921/1922 Weimar army marking, for the 5th Infantry Regiment. The mark should date to before 1934 or so, if I recall correctly, when the 'new' Wehrmacht stopped unit-marking weapons. Trajan. Hello, the interwar (weimar period) unit stamps have to be read differently to the imperial unit markings. The scabbard is marked to: bayonet # 116, 5th company, infantry regiment 16 Thanks Wolfgang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 31 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2017 48 minutes ago, Amberg said: ... The scabbard is marked to: bayonet # 116, 5th company, infantry regiment 16 ... Hi Wolfgang, You are absolutely right and so many thanks for the correction! I should have checked before giving that wrong information... However, I think (hope!) I am correct in saying this has to date to between 1921/1922 and 1934? I should check... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberg Posted 31 May , 2017 Share Posted 31 May , 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, trajan said: Hi Wolfgang, You are absolutely right and so many thanks for the correction! I should have checked before giving that wrong information... However, I think (hope!) I am correct in saying this has to date to between 1921/1922 and 1934? I should check... Trajan Hello Trajan, you are absolutely correct with what you said. As per German period regulations. But you can find unit markings on equipment (belts, ammo pouches ....) still in the late 1930s. Concerning the shown unit marking on the SG 98/05 scabbard, yes I agree with 1921 - 1934. Thanks Wolfgang Edited 31 May , 2017 by Amberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 6 July , 2017 Share Posted 6 July , 2017 As suggested by Julian, for your viewing pleasure, GW German trench knife with Hannover police district unit markings. khaki (ps) no other marks including manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 6 July , 2017 2 hours ago, Khaki said: As suggested by Julian, for your viewing pleasure, GW German trench knife with Hannover police district unit markings. khaki (ps) no other marks including manufacturers. What a nice one that is! Never having seen any German trench knives over here I don't have one and so have never studied them and have no idea as to what type, etc., this is. But intriguing to see those police markings... S.Hn.III / [?]3.[?]28.... I think I have a copy of the Prussian/German Weimar period official instructions on police markings in my office, but all I have at home are the two standard reference works on German markings, with what they have reproduced for the year 1922. So, the 'S' is for Schutzpolizei, but I can't find a 'Hn' - maybe Hameln? Hannover should be 'H' according to the books I have. All that is followed by the 'III' for the ???section, and '[?]3.[?]28' for the ???centuria and weapon number? Any ideas??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 7 July , 2017 Share Posted 7 July , 2017 5 hours ago, trajan said: What a nice one that is! Never having seen any German trench knives over here I don't have one and so have never studied them and have no idea as to what type, etc., this is. 'S' is for Schutzpolizei, but I can't find a 'Hn' - maybe Hameln? Hannover should be 'H' according to the books I have. All that is followed by the 'III' for the ???section, and '[?]3.[?]28' for the ???centuria and weapon number? Any ideas??? Thanks, the only thing I have been able to discover is that the city code HN or Hn is that of Heilbronn, this city was the location of great political turmoil during the Weimar period and may have been subject to significant numbers of police as well as para military/ auxillary forces. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 7 July , 2017 Well, the Police markings document I have in my office is for 1932... Same format as the 1922 markings, but no Heilbron is listed, and the only Blankwaffen listed in that are the S.98/05 and the Polizei-Sabel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 8 July , 2017 Share Posted 8 July , 2017 During the post war turmoil (street fighting) I believe that members of the Sturmabteilung (SA) were used as police auxiliary maybe Freikorps also, these are the people who were more likely armed with GW trench daggers? Despite the police markings it doesn't seem to me to be a civil police weapon, Military Police acting under the control of city police more likely. khaki khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 8 August , 2017 Share Posted 8 August , 2017 I have recently come into possession of both German and British World War I era bayonets. The German one one is definitely the most interesting, especially after reading this thread. Markings are 5.R.R.8.242. made by Alex Coppel, Solingen. Also markings of (not shown in the images) W79, and Erfurt. There are no markings on the scabbard. I would be extremely grateful for any info on the unit that can be provided. And, also recommendations on what, if any, care should be taken to maintain them. I would like to display them. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 8 August , 2017 Share Posted 8 August , 2017 Hello! You´ve got 5th Reserve-Infantry-Regiment, 8th company, weapon N° 242: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/RIR_5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 8 August , 2017 Share Posted 8 August , 2017 9 minutes ago, The Prussian said: You´ve got 5th Reserve-Infantry-Regiment, 8th company, weapon N° 242: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/RIR_5 Many thanks. Can I make some assumptions? If I understand correctly, the W79 means that it was manufactured in 1879 for the M1871, which would have been an outdated weapon in 1914, hence they were given to reserve units? Given the year of manufacture, can I also assume that the unit identification was only added at the time it was issued? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 8 August , 2017 Share Posted 8 August , 2017 Well, I don´t have the knowledgements about bajonet-stamps; I only can tell you the regiment. Maybe Trajan can answer your questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 8 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2017 Hi Smudge, Welcome to GWForum! A nice pair there - what are the markings on the British one? The Prussian is on the ball with the unit ID, but note that this style of marking is pre-WW1. So, could well have been used in WW1, not a problem there, although perhaps most probably by a Landsturm or Landwehr unit rather than by the 5.Reserve Inf.Reg. German regulations stated quite clearly that only those weapons in actual service use (training, guard duty, etc.) in peacetime were to be marked and they were not to be marked in wartime, although it is clear that many weapons used in WW1 were unit-marked up to at least 1915/16 and a few right up until 1918. So, your bayonet was marked after being inspected and approved for use in 1879, but before the change in marking came about, in 1909 if I remember rightly (on holiday sitting in a bar(!), and away from books and notes!) Your German bayonet is a nice one - does it fit all the way into the scabbard or has the scabbard shrunk? Original scabbards for these are uncommon, but what is especially interesting is that your scabbard has the Bavarian-type frog-staple rather than a frog stud. So, the bayonet and scabbard are a 'marriage' - the bayonet is from a Prussian unit but the scabbard is from a Bavarian one. Again, a nice pair to have! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 14 September , 2017 Share Posted 14 September , 2017 Hi chaps, Here's one for you on a cut down Efurt 98/05 Cheers, Aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 14 September , 2017 Share Posted 14 September , 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2017 On 9/14/2017 at 14:48, sawdoc34 said: ... Hi Aleck! Great to see you back after a pretty long absence! Hope all is ok? This is a VERY interesting one - never seen before a 98/05 cut down and re-shaped to become a trench knife... This one is unique in my (limited) experience of these Imperial German bayonets and could do with re-posting elsewhere - may I? The marking - '16.L.J.E.B.133' is also interesting. I am not at home right now and so can't check all my notes, but my records on this laptop suggest it will be for 16 Landwehr Inf.Ersatz.Bat. Waffe 133. Unit markings to a Landwehr Ersatz Bataillon are not common, so that and the change to the trench knife format makes this a very interesting piece! Best wishes, Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 16 September , 2017 Share Posted 16 September , 2017 Hello Julian! There were no Landwehr-Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillone... I could recommend: Ersatz-Bataillon/Landwehr-Inf.Rgt.Nr.16 (mobile between august 1914 and june 1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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