Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

German Unit Bayonet Markings


trajan

Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Hello Julian!

There were no Landwehr-Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillone...

I could recommend: Ersatz-Bataillon/Landwehr-Inf.Rgt.Nr.16 (mobile between august 1914 and june 1916)

 

Thanks Andy, that certainly sounds better... So, a wild guess on my part and one I cannot blame on my Wurstfinger - Samstag, nachmittag, vielleicht gehirn ficken...!!!:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Ah, you read the Wursfinger thread...:D

 

Naturlich, arkadasim! And tonight, or tomorrow, in celebration of this exchange, I will open a pack of Nurnberger wurstchen for my dinner - leaving only four packets left of the six I bought in MUC on my way back from England!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nürnberger are nice, but no comparison to the national-food of my area. "Currywurst-Pommes-Majo" (sausage with curry, fries and mayonaise).

It will be eaten in stores like this (Bergbau-Grill = Mining grill station)

2298156702_2b55931376.jpg.e1841551f431dba5ae19706a6c8ffbe5.jpg

800px-Extraschicht_2009_Bergbaugrill_733.jpg.398bec8ed7033327b1b7883e0c6798a8.jpg

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, The Prussian said:

... "Currywurst-Pommes-Majo" ... eaten in stores like this (Bergbau-Grill = Mining grill station)

 

Ah... brings back fond memories of my time in Hannover and visits to other top gourmet centres in Germany... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

a somewhat unusual Bavarian Artillerie Seitengewehr 92.

Unusual, because the bayonet itself does not bear any markings, but a "1." on the crossguard, and the scabbard bears a unit stamp that I could not decode so far.

Any ideas concerning the unit stamp?

(Bavarian) 12th Reserve Infantry Regiment, but what is "L.L."?

Thanks

Wolfgang

IMG_6839.JPG.f4a746fed894fce3197db544d8c01a28.JPG

IMG_6840.JPG.107cfdffdc0fdea0582f7836f682d818.JPG

IMG_6841.JPG.87b8bf0ee9693d494ca1a33ec1527027.JPG

IMG_6843.JPG.fa44cada71781043542302c33fb46b6b.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Wolfgang!

In the book from Wacker/Görtz is a bavarian stamp from 1882 (page 109):

3.R.R.L.A.3.68

That means: Landwehr-Bataillon Augsburg, 3.Komp., Gun N°68

Probably yours is Landwehr-Bataillon L (Landshut, Landsberg etc.)

 

 

Edited by The Prussian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Julian,

Always been around mate, just lurking in the shadows but now that I can post pics from the new phone without ha ing to go thru the hassle of resizing, then got some new additions to show you pal 😊

Hope all is fine in Turkey & tourism picking up again to boost your bayonet funds😉

Post any of my pics anywhere you want Julian, you don't need to ask my permission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/17/2017 at 19:24, Amberg said:

...Bavarian Artillerie Seitengewehr 92. ...

 

IMG_6841.JPG

 

 

On 9/21/2017 at 06:07, The Prussian said:

... In the book from Wacker/Görtz is a bavarian stamp from 1882 (page 109):

3.R.R.L.A.3.68

That means: Landwehr-Bataillon Augsburg, 3.Komp., Gun N°68

Probably yours is Landwehr-Bataillon L (Landshut, Landsberg etc.) ...

 

A quick reply - SWMBO wants to vacuum-clean my study area...

 

nice looking piece - with an original scabbard!!! Rare!! 

 

So, what do we have - '12.R.R.L.L.1.57'... The Bavarian regulations had a mind of their own to adapt the Prussian = Imperial regulations to their own units. BUT, this marking has to conform in its principal details to what was expected for a weapon produced after 1892. So, I don't see why Wacker/Görtz give that explanation. To me, it should be a marking following on from the 1877 or 1909, , = Reserve and L = Landsturm/Landwehr, but with A = Augsburg, and so in this case, the 12.R.R.L.L.1.57' is perhaps 12 Reserve Landwehr Regiment, Landshut, and so on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Julian!

The Landwehr-Bezirk Landshut only had the 6th Lancdwehr-Bataillon.

There were no Reserve-Landwehr-units in Bavaria...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Andy - I am doing a lot of catching up (a week's worth!).

 

So, look for another explanation... I don't have one of these things - what else apart from a Bavarian M.92 would that scabbard fit? In other words, is the scabbard for a Prussian yataghan-type bayonet? 

 

Amberg - what are the scabbard dimensions?

 

Julian

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, sawdoc34 said:

... Always been around mate, just lurking in the shadows but now that I can post pics from the new phone without ha ing to go thru the hassle of resizing, then got some new additions to show you pal 😊

Hope all is fine in Turkey & tourism picking up again to boost your bayonet funds😉

 

8 hours ago, sawdoc34 said:

A quite nice 1871/84 ☺

 

 

20170915_184455.jpg

20170915_184539.jpg

 

Really good to see you back again marrer! Yes, shadows are sometimes the best places - and our mate down under seems to be lurking thereabouts also a lot these days! But as usual you are finding nice things and yes, isn't the new system for posting photographs so much easier!

 

This one really is a nice piece - scabbard, frog, and all. I continue to be surprised as to how many of these ones survive, and were not cut down, loosing their muzzle ring and having their hilts changed around... I have over 250 unit-marked examples of these in my records!

 

AR/87 is for Saxony - and I am thinking that the unit mark - '15.J.R.80' - is for the 15 Jaeger Bataillon Recruiting Depot but I need to check - got to dash now as kids back from footie classes (one is for Besiktas, t'other is Fenerbahce!)

 

PS: No, Tourism still down and bayonet funds at the bare minimum...:wacko:

Edited by trajan
Add PS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers for that Julian, these German markings are double dutch to me mate.....have just got a nice Bavarian one this week, will get some pics tomorrow bud😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coppell made Bavarian 71/84, came with a nicer Prussian scabbard but thought this Bavarian marked one would be more correct

20170923_095620.jpg

20170923_095630.jpg

20170923_095615.jpg

20170923_095647.jpg

Edited by sawdoc34
Typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello!

I assume:

B.3.R.E.4.12. = bavarian Ersatz-Bataillon, 3rd Inf.Rgt., 4th comp., rifle 12

B.11.R.6.13 = bavarian 11th Res.Rgt., 6th comp., rifle 13

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/23/2017 at 12:07, sawdoc34 said:

Coppell made Bavarian 71/84, came with a nicer Prussian scabbard but thought this Bavarian marked one would be more correct

20170923_095615.jpg

 

 

On 9/23/2017 at 12:25, The Prussian said:

Hello!

I assume:

B.3.R.E.4.12. = bavarian Ersatz-Bataillon, 3rd Inf.Rgt., 4th comp., rifle 12

B.11.R.6.13 = bavarian 11th Res.Rgt., 6th comp., rifle 13

 

Another nice one!

 

Carter records a:

B.3.R.E.3.231. S.71/84 nAmS WKC L/91 (Carter 2 p.28)

 

And Williams has a:

B.11.R.8.241 S.71/84 mS SOEMMERDA L/91 (Williams 1 p.323)

 

So, good company there! Intersting but perhaps not significant that yours without a sawback is an '88 and the two sawbacked ones are both '91...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear All,

Here's one I acquired recently.  The marking is 8.P.4.39.  At page 20 Vol.I. Carter records a similar example made by Erfurt in 1906 marked 8.P.4.61.  Note the photo showing the lack of a false edge.  I'm not sure whether the scabbard is marked as the frog has shrunk and I dare not attempt to move it. 

Michael. 

DSC03792.JPG.58f0c3004e1bb2817a01cbe7b19440ec.JPG

DSC03793.JPG.af3384397deab98ba17e7b19a8b36c58.JPG

DSC03797.JPG.e37e36b06d3108e92eb2a3a267659485.JPG

DSC03800.JPG.3da7a1b0066234a7ce9e81866e2838ae.JPGDSC03806.JPG.efbee2158bb5b5249b4117a269c62383.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/27/2017 at 12:12, Michael Haselgrove said:

Dear All,

Here's one I acquired recently.  The marking is 8.P.4.39.  At page 20 Vol.I. Carter records a similar example made by Erfurt in 1906 marked 8.P.4.61.  Note the photo showing the lack of a false edge.  I'm not sure whether the scabbard is marked as the frog has shrunk and I dare not attempt to move it. 

Michael. 

DSC03792.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

Michael, 

 

What a beauty! And so 8.P.4.61 for 1. Rheinisches Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 8, 4.Kompagnie, Waffe 61. The scabbard and frog certainly look period and could well be original to this one - do the frakturs on the chape and locket match the bayonet? The troddel is also excellent - but what are the colours? They look (from the top) red Schieber, Stengel, and Kranz... I have no knowledge whatsoever of troddel markings amongst Pionier units... BUT in infantry units - as you probably know - I think that would be 2.Bataillon, 6.Kompagnie ...

 

For others, if I recall correctly (and if I don't recall correctly, no doubt Andy or GreyC or others will correct me!), then troddel colours go: "Wir Rauchen Gerne (Brasil)" = Weiß, Rot, Gelb (Blau). This gives the batallion and company sequence. All white = 1st batallion, 1st company; white over red, = 1st batallion, 2nd company; white over yellow, and white over blue = 1st batallion, 3rd and 4th company; red over white = 2nd batallion, 5th company; red over red = 2nd battalion, 6th company; red over yellow, and red over blue = 2nd batallion, 7th and 8th company; and so on until yellow over blue = 3rd batallion, 12th company - with blue over white being for the extra 13th company - MGK - when these were added.

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Julian!

You´re absolutely right with the Troddeln. I now the phrase "Wir rauchen gerne", I didn´t know "Brasil", I knew "billig (cheap), but it´s the same meaning.

Well, the Pionier-Troddel is, as you said, 6th company.

Here is a little help:

trodel0005800.jpg.02bd16aff969675c61557dc915ae5e84.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, The Prussian said:

... You´re absolutely right with the Troddeln. I now the phrase "Wir rauchen gerne", I didn´t know "Brasil", I knew "billig (cheap), but it´s the same meaning. ...

 

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for confirming - but I do like the 'Bilig version'! Reminds me of the days when I used to buy Roth-Händle...:rolleyes: Can't remember now though if they were cheaper than HB...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, vague memories of Husten during my year of being a long-haired and bearded Wader look-a-like on the Hannover quay....!!!

 

But, back on topic! Troddels are fun! I have never seen a German one over here, but I enjoy seeing them in period photographs, and using them as a means of tying down those details such as individual companies. In which case, have a look at: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/253838-help-readinginterpreting-wwi-postcard-from-german-soldier/?tab=comments#comment-2568271 and posts 10 and following...

 

Julian

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...