Gareth Davies Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 "Appear to have been black tie dinners in the " there either were dinners or there was not ? or are they James Bond themed nights? Either way the events were not "mainly black tie dinners". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Grundy Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 Seems Grouch Marx's line on group membership has been tested to destruction here - sort of. And if a group holds black tie dinners, who cares? No-one's forcing anyone to join the club, let alone hire a suit for the purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 Intestingly ,I assume the Guild being a ltd company implies a commercial interest in guide validation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMHart Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 Absolutely wonderful. Could either side explain what it is about 'black tie' dinners that is acting as a red rag to a bull to the 'Enemies of the Guild'. They cannot all be closet Marxists? Would a 'pink tie event' not offer a mutually satisfactory compromise? Pete PS A-ha! Can our friend explain what he is implying by "commercial interest in guide validation" for our learned friends! As I predicted - punch-up by teatime!!!! PPS Someone trod on my budgerigar and he is now a different sort of sticky.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 Absolutely wonderful. Could either side explain what it is about 'black tie' dinners that is acting as a red rag to a bull to the 'Enemies of the Guild'. They cannot all be closet Marxists? Would a 'pink tie event' not offer a mutually satisfactory compromise? Pete Yes, what is so wrong with a black tie dinner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 The fibres get stuck in your teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 ...(Mind you, we also gather round bonfires at midnight chanting incantations and sacrifice non-believers before drinking their blood in a bond of eternal brotherhood, but I mustn't say any more about that...). I knew we'd get to the bottom of it eventually , though the more I hear, the more that the set-up is explained, the less attractive it sounds. I wonder how "the market" reads or understands the ever increasing number of GofBFG logos appearing on websites, e-mails, and the like. It has been clearly explained that membership whilst having no intention of being validated is quite acceptable and anybody so doing is given a badge. It isn't exactly the same badge as given to validated guides, but how is the "end user" to know that ? "I'm a member of the GofBFGs" is an entirely valid claim by anybody who has paid their £75. Should the GofBFG maybe have "badged and accredited" guides, and all other members should be titled "Friends of The Guild of Battlefield Guides (but not accredited by the GofBFGs)", and both classes wear badges (and use similar logos on the www and elsewhere) which make it clear which class they belong to ? Just a passing suggestion. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 I knew we'd get to the bottom of it eventually , though the more I hear, the more that the set-up is explained, the less attractive it sounds. *** .So unattractive that membership of those interested continues to increase on an annual basis now around 300. I wonder how "the market" reads or understands the ever increasing number of GofBFG logos appearing on websites, e-mails, and the like. *** Yes how does such an "unattractive" organisation continue to increase personal and corporate use of its publicity and logo?. A real mystery that, unless increasing numbers of poor deluded fools are being duped into feeling its actually a good organisation worth joining? I,m sure you can soon put them right Tom. It has been clearly explained that membership whilst having no intention of being validated is quite acceptable and anybody so doing is given a badge. *** No as usual you are incorrect. Nobody is given a badge of any sort. The "ordinary" silver badge of the Guild is sold openly and purely as an emblem of the Guild. Non members can even purchase it should they wish to show support for the Guild for any reason. It isn't exactly the same badge as given to validated guides, *** No its nothing like the Badge awarded to Badged Battlefield Guides, on successfully completing the nine modules of the accreditation process. Thats a big chunky gold and red enamel affair. but how is the "end user" to know that ? "I'm a member of the GofBFGs" is an entirely valid claim by anybody who has paid their £75. **** If indeed they are a member, having first demonstrated some interest and experience in guiding, and although contentious as per earlier discusion found a proposer and seconder, often by attending one or two Guild events and meeting guides and members there.Many others make equally valid claims, Member of the WFA for instance as CB pointed out, many more make commercial claims, eg military researcher without putting forward any particular qualifying particulars. As per CBs post it is the intention behind the statement that can be misleading. As earlier pointed out the GBG would take whatever action it could against anyone misusing its name .Are you suggesting someone is trying to mislead the public by such a statement? Should the GofBFG maybe have "badged and accredited" guides, and all other members should be titled "Friends of The Guild of Battlefield Guides (but not accredited by the GofBFGs)", ****Well they could but just think of the size of the namebadge you would need to get that on! Interestingly something similart was proposed at an early Guild AGM. In the interest of inclusiveness towards all members the membership voted not to discriminate within the Guild in such a way. and both classes wear badges (and use similar logos on the www and elsewhere) which make it clear which class they belong to ? **** As above--they do already. Just a passing suggestion. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-ted Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 Tom. I am a "Non Badged" member of the GBG. I have never attended a Guild event but have enjoyed many benefits from meeting like minded people who are members of the guild. I am not a lesser member, I am a member. The guild welcomes people with an interest in conflict through the ages and is inclusive. I choose to be a member, you or anyone else can choose not to be a member. I really cant see why some people have a problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 Unfortunately, because of the way post #141 was posted it is impossible to selectively reply to it (it wont display under a "quote" command), however with regards to > It has been clearly explained that membership whilst having no intention of being validated is quite acceptable and anybody so doing is given a badge. *** No as usual you are slightly incorrect. Nobody is given a badge of any sort. The "ordinary" silver badge of the Guild is sold openly and purely as an emblem of the Guild. Non members can even purchase it should they wish to show support for the Guild for any reason. The GofBFG "GBG Kit Price List" on their website shows the "members pin badge" (the, confusingly, "non-badged" member's badge) and says "Should any member lose their original free members pin badge we can provide a replacement." The price shown is £5. I see that I have misunderstood though (as pointed out in post #141) and this badge is not exclusively a non-badged members badge but is also a badge that anybody can buy and wear to show support for the guild. So - the guild has badged guide's badges and non non-badged guide's badges which can also be bought and worn by anyone who isn't a member or guide of any description. In post #140 I wondered at how the unknowing would not be confused ... I'll get my 5 quid in the post first thing Monday. Confusingly though, the guild website says in one place to "When sending Mike cheques for the merchandise, please make them out to the 'Guild of Battlefield Guides Limited'.", elsewhere says "All prices are plus P&P.", but seems nowhere to tell you what the p&p is. I'll send 5 quid. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 Tom. I am a "Non Badged" member of the GBG. ... John - that's the bit that confuses me - the people who are badged have a badge, and the people who are non badged - have a badge ... and I cannot see how people outside the organisation can not be confused by that. There's no point anybody getting uppish with me about this - I didn't bring about a situation whereby people who are badged have a badge, and the people who are non badged have a badge ... and now it seems that anybody with £5 can have a badge as well. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willywombat Posted 22 June , 2013 Share Posted 22 June , 2013 I'll get my 5 quid in the post first thing Monday. Tom Excellent! Pleased to see you're getting a badge For an an explanation of the two different ones: http://www.gbg-international.com/ Wear it with pride, but be aware that you may be opening yourself up to flak on certain forums from a minority who are less enlightened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 Yesterday as an un badged but member of the Friends of the Tank Memorial Ypres Salient I attended the TMYS annual ceremony in St Georges Memorial Church. Included within our attending guest list was the family of Captain Clement Robertson VC, (first to the Tank Corps) The day included a visit with presentations applicable to the relevant tank action battlefield sites. A short grave side ceremony in Oxford Road CWGC Cemetery concluded the day of homage. The day was finally complete with me meeting Old Ted for the first time at a watering hole in Ypres. Such a nice and great guy! Ted, badges or no badges, I look forward to our next chat and the beers are on me! Fear Naught Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 Unfortunately, because of the way post #141 was posted it is impossible to selectively reply to it (it wont display under a "quote" command), however with regards to > It has been clearly explained that membership whilst having no intention of being validated is quite acceptable and anybody so doing is given a badge. *** No as usual you are slightly incorrect. Nobody is given a badge of any sort. The "ordinary" silver badge of the Guild is sold openly and purely as an emblem of the Guild. Non members can even purchase it should they wish to show support for the Guild for any reason. The GofBFG "GBG Kit Price List" on their website shows the "members pin badge" (the, confusingly, "non-badged" member's badge) and says "Should any member lose their original free members pin badge we can provide a replacement." The price shown is £5. I see that I have misunderstood though (as pointed out in post #141) and this badge is not exclusively a non-badged members badge but is also a badge that anybody can buy and wear to show support for the guild. So - the guild has badged guide's badges and non non-badged guide's badges which can also be bought and worn by anyone who isn't a member or guide of any description. In post #140 I wondered at how the unknowing would not be confused ... I'll get my 5 quid in the post first thing Monday. Confusingly though, the guild website says in one place to "When sending Mike cheques for the merchandise, please make them out to the 'Guild of Battlefield Guides Limited'.", elsewhere says "All prices are plus P&P.", but seems nowhere to tell you what the p&p is. I'll send 5 quid. Tom Tom well done with the price list I note amongst all the other items that a guild member can purchase baseball caps rugby shirts ect is a replacement name tag which is free to all members when joining , so you can sport a badge and a plastic name tag . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 I joined the GBFG to show my support for the organisation but, as a non guiding member, I never wear the badge they sent me. I think doing so might suggest a set of abilities/competencies I don't have for those who don't know the differences between their various badges (i.e. virtually everyone). I see the Guild as a 'one stop shop' for those who chose to use it. Prospective clients can use it to find potential Guides covering a range of periods of military history and guiding members can use it to help develop their skills, 'network' with fellow guides and benefit from the collective purchasing of goods and services (such as insurance). Every organisation has to start somewhere - the various professional Institutes in the UK were all new at one stage - and the GBFG has just started on it's development. If it satisfies the needs of members it will flourish - if not it will fold. Obviously it won't be for everyone and obviously just because a Guide is not a member of the Guild does not mean they are not a good Guide. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormorant Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 And so it continues .... Before people get carried away, the person selling the items is of course the Membership Secretary who will check that you are indeed members before you are allowed to purchase Guild items. Sorry SG but purchase of the members badge is not open to all and sundry - only to members. I still wonder why some are so keen to perpetuate this thread. Perhaps they secretly wish they could join (are they indeed battlefield guides?) but are worried no one might propose or second them ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 So does the guild aim to be an accredited professional body ? which various organisations will go to when looking for a battlefield guide ? and to say that if they chose not to use the Guild then the guide they acquire for there services may not be up to scratch ? as said before the top lads in their field be it Marlborough , Napoleonic or the Crimea are notable by their absence on the list of guides as well as any Great War . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormorant Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 So does the guild aim to be an accredited professional body ? which various organisations will go to when looking for a battlefield guide ? and to say that if they chose not to use the Guild then the guide they acquire for there services may not be up to scratch ? as said before the top lads in their field be it Marlborough , Napoleonic or the Crimea are notable by their absence on the list of guides as well as any Great War . I guess it depends on which list one looks at and one's own personal prejudices and favourites. I know who I consider to be experts on particular periods of warfare. Some are Guild members whilst others are not. It is a personal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 Can you badger a badge-wearing non-badged badger if he is mis-badged? I think we need a cull. Do you mean a culling of badges or badge wearing badgers and if you are speaking of the former, how on earth do you cull the vast plethora of badges available out there? Perhaps a single IGBG badge is more than enough, but then again??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 And it's no use simply just picking on Badger. Nero, Ajax, Falcon and Egypt have also just been culled!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 And it's no use simply just picking on Badger. Nero, Ajax, Falcon and Egypt have also just been culled!! And Cyclops and Huntsman. But 'bout time too; silly names for Sqns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 I know several people who proudly dangle a Blue Badge to guide people on Heritage Open Days. I have witnessed one start a tour by demanding a round of applause for their Blue Badged co-guide at the end. I see many other people who know at least as much (often because they have done the research or written the books and articles used as source materials by the Blue Badgers) give a far superior service. I have also witnessed tourists ask if the non-badged guides should be wearing a badge, and the shock on their faces when told "no, becuase they cost £5,000". Please excuse me diverting the thread onto a separate organisation, but that is my experience of the resultant mix of expertise, ability, money and insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 Indeed, please forgive me for their omission including all one eyed hunters everywhere. Perhaps I became focused on my Egyptian Son's former Sqn. Then again perhaps I should cull him especially when his Dadbank begging emails appear! Whoops sorry for hi jacking this fascinating thread but now back to badges please..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 Come back! Sad Pete Oh. All right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wade Posted 23 June , 2013 Share Posted 23 June , 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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