Simon127 Posted 26 October , 2013 Share Posted 26 October , 2013 The War Illustrated excerpts are charming, if more than slightly fanciful. I have a few that I bought as I liked the artwork and they also depicted actual documented events such as 'The VC that smoked' - a certain Lieutenant Forshaw in the Manchester Regiment that held off a Turkish attack whilst lighting his No 15 grenades with a cigarette, and a Yorkshire private that captured a Bulgarian flag on a trench raid. My personal favourite for sheer jingoistic comical value was 'The Hippo that sided with the Hun'. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 26 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2013 The War Illustrated excerpts are charming, if more than slightly fanciful. I have a few that I bought as I liked the artwork and they also depicted actual documented events such as 'The VC that smoked' - a certain Lieutenant Forshaw in the Manchester Regiment that held off a Turkish attack whilst lighting his No 15 grenades with a cigarette, and a Yorkshire private that captured a Bulgarian flag on a trench raid. My personal favourite for sheer jingoistic comical value was 'The Hippo that sided with the Hun'. Simon Simon, All great reads, the War Illustrated was a nice cross between a magazine and a comic. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 27 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2013 In a photograph from the September 1916 General Staff's publication ' The Training and Employment of Bombers ', troops in a practice trench are seen ' working down ' the trench. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 27 October , 2013 Share Posted 27 October , 2013 Here is my Mills battered and beaten but quite nice for dug up item, not sure if its a No5 or No23, base plug a No5 dated 8/16 if its original to it I don't knowand here is a recent addition to the collection a Battye grenade, another dug example (I made the plug and fuse to totally inert)Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 27 October , 2013 Share Posted 27 October , 2013 Hi Gaz. There basically no difference between the body of a No 5 and a No 23 Mks I & II. The difference is in the baseplug. Also these 3 types shared all of the first 4 types of levers depending on the makers. Photo of various Mills Levers attached. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 27 October , 2013 Share Posted 27 October , 2013 Hi John,Thanks very much for that, I'm going to say it has either number 5 or 6 for the lever, mine has the central spine running down it and its curved shape on the shoulders/top part (not sure of the terminology on that) rather than the sharpe diagonal of Number 1. Hope that makes sense, I would take it off for a photo but I'll spend ages trying to reset the spring as I don't any tools for it,The base plug has a maker Davis and Mawson if anyone is interested (I know a few have interests in that sort of thing)CheersGaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 28 October , 2013 Share Posted 28 October , 2013 Gaz Davis and Mawson plugs are quite scarce. I think they may have stopped making them after 1916. The ridge in the lever was brought in during the summer of 1916. There had been complaints that the flat lever (no 2) was prone to bend. The ridge type was stiffer. The first type with the side ridges (slab sided - No 4 in photo) was expensive to make and had to be individually drilled to fit each grenade. One of the key reasons for the inroduction of the No 23 Mk III / No 36, was that the connection between the lever (no 7 in the photo) and the striker was much more positive and safe and that the levers were cheaper to produce. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 28 October , 2013 Share Posted 28 October , 2013 My personal favourite for sheer jingoistic comical value was 'The Hippo that sided with the Hun'. Simon I have that on too, ha ha, a story of fending it off with bayonets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 28 October , 2013 Share Posted 28 October , 2013 Thanks John, never realised there was so much history behind them. The plug is dated 9/16, I bought it over in France a good few years ago so it could be a parts grenade either way its a nice example and I didn't pay much for it, the base plug is a bit of a bonus really.Only trouble is they seem to multiply like bayonets, you buy one and then another and before you know it you seem to be collecting them.Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2013 Only trouble is they seem to multiply like bayonets, you buy one and then another and before you know it you seem to be collecting them. Gaz Gaz, Many of us have the ' Collecting Monkey ' clinging to our backs ! With the Mills Grenades, you could always get an example of a No.5, a No.23, and No.36, and perhaps a sectional example and then quit while you are ahead. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 28 October , 2013 Share Posted 28 October , 2013 Hi Gaz. There basically no difference between the body of a No 5 and a No 23 Mks I & II. The difference is in the baseplug. Also these 3 types shared all of the first 4 types of levers depending on the makers. Photo of various Mills Levers attached. John This has always bugged me because, IIRC, Skennerton and others have tried to explain the difference between the two in shoulder shape etc and I've never been able to see it. Yes I have bombs with slightly different shoulders, yet not so marked to call one 5 or 23. So: if base plugs have been mixed and matched by - say - a dealer, what you are actually buying is an attribution based on the base plug rather than the bomb - whether 5 or 23 - itself. Yes? Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 28 October , 2013 Share Posted 28 October , 2013 I would like a sectioned example, makes a good educational piece. Its a bit late for quitting when I'm ahead, I already have a m1915 discus grenade, a m1915 Kugel and the body of a M1914 Rifle grenade (need to find parts for that) so it seems I've already branched out to German grenades too, I've always wanted a stick grenade as they are iconic I just don't like the price tag that comes with them. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 28 October , 2013 Share Posted 28 October , 2013 This has always bugged me because, IIRC, Skennerton and others have tried to explain the difference between the two in shoulder shape etc and I've never been able to see it. Yes I have bombs with slightly different shoulders, yet not so marked to call one 5 or 23. So: if base plugs have been mixed and matched by - say - a dealer, what you are actually buying is an attribution based on the base plug rather than the bomb - whether 5 or 23 - itself. Yes? Cheers, GT. You are correct. I believe Skennerton is wrong on this. There was no defined body type for the 23 Mk I or Mk II. I have the L series original drawings. See drawing attached. There's no difference from the No 5. The only difference is the base plugs and lever types. I know a couple of people who buy batches of No 5 / 23 grenades from people on the Somme. All these grenades are a mixture of parts often with repro levers added in. What people forget is that from January 1917 the No 5 ceased to exist and No 23 Mk II plugs became the standard plug for the general purpose riflle / hand grenade. Nobody asked the makers to change the bodies, so No 5's suddenly became No 23's by the addition of the new plug. As the Hearn type cast iron plug often corrodes away, many grenades, delivered to the trenches as No 23's become No 5's with the addition of brass plugs! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 28 October , 2013 Share Posted 28 October , 2013 Only trouble is they seem to multiply like bayonets, you buy one and then another and before you know it you seem to be collecting them. Gaz I know it so well. I once said to myself 'I must get an example of a No 36 as I have a few No 5's'. DOH ! Now I seemingly have about 25 36's in my collection. They just seem to appear..... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon127 Posted 29 October , 2013 Share Posted 29 October , 2013 Only trouble is they seem to multiply like bayonets, you buy one and then another and before you know it you seem to be collecting them. Unfortunately, I was unable to shake the 'collecting monkey', when it came to grenades. There's something so evocative about them in the context of the Great War. As I was a teenager when I started collecting, financial constraints meant I had to stick to relics... Uploaded with ImageShack.us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ecn343 Posted 29 October , 2013 Share Posted 29 October , 2013 It's all coming back now, I recall I was taught (after priming) "Prepare to Throw" : grasp the grenade firmly in my right hand, Thumb resting on the Filler Plug and fingers holding the Spoon down. On the command "Throw" : A quick look at the target then pull the grenade from the pin (not vice versa) and lob. I began an affair with grenades in recruit training that lasted my entire military career. Congratulations to all concerned on a fantastic Subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 29 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2013 Congratulations to all concerned on a fantastic Subject. ecn343, Welcome to the Forum, and we are pleased to hear that you are enjoying this Thread. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 29 October , 2013 Share Posted 29 October , 2013 It's all coming back now, I recall I was taught (after priming) "Prepare to Throw" : grasp the grenade firmly in my right hand, Thumb resting on the Filler Plug and fingers holding the Spoon down. On the command "Throw" : A quick look at the target then pull the grenade from the pin (not vice versa) and lob. I began an affair with grenades in recruit training that lasted my entire military career. Congratulations to all concerned on a fantastic Subject. Ecn343 - Welcome from me too. American grenades have spoons - Mills Grenades have levers. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 29 October , 2013 Share Posted 29 October , 2013 LF Please note that on the diagram I posted which is from the summer of 1916 (and updated later), there is no mention of a white band. They didn't exist.... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 30 October , 2013 Share Posted 30 October , 2013 Hello again, Aeons ago I asked about a Mills and was asked to provide some more shots of it and identify any markings. I now have access to the bomb and can find absolutely no markings whatsoever on it. It's also noticeably of cruder manufacture than other examples pictured here, even sporting a very obvious casting seam which makes me wonder could this be an example (previously mentioned) of a 1916-1922 er... how can I phrase this... Non-British-Government-Authorised example!? Some other views in this and next three posts: Base plate Filler hole: Pin(?) assembly Side showing seam Any help appreciated, Dave [edit] didn't know all the photos would appear in the one post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2013 Hello again, Aeons ago I asked about a Mills and was asked to provide some more shots of it and identify any markings. Dave, Your's is a Mills No.36 Dummy/Training Grenade, painted all-over white to indicate as such. Has the later pattern release lever, but is hard to date with no base plug markings. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 October , 2013 Share Posted 30 October , 2013 Hi Dave As it has a rod in the base it would probably be a Mills 23 Mk III (1917-1920). There looks to be a small makers mark on the lever, but no mark on the body beneath the filler hole nor on the base plug. The baseplug type is new to me. Is it aluminium? This would be odd as the rod would pierce the plug on firing with that material. Even some of the brass 23 Mk III plugs failed. On that basis, the possibility of it being a IRA / Sinn Fein made copy from the 1920's is quite possible. If it is, it's a rare beast. Thanks for sorting out the photos. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 October , 2013 Share Posted 30 October , 2013 LF. I have a 1918 dated training 36, painted white with 5 drilled holes. I'm not sure Dave's would be training, though the white paint makes it possible. Many of the early training 36's were made by JH W. (John Harper Willenhall Staffs). It's odd that this grenade is made contrary to makers instructions without a makers name on the front face. I've never seen a 36 training grenade without it. That's why I think it may be a local copy as Dave suspects. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2013 Hi Dave As it has a rod in the base it would probably be a Mills 23 Mk III (1917-1920). John John, Looks like a No.36 Dummy base plug slotted for a gas check plate, and with possibly a broken off gas check plate screw still in the hole ? Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2013 Dave, There appears to be something protruding from the base plug of your grenade, have you ever tried removing it ? Perhaps it is a broken screw, possibly from a gas check plate, or as John suggested, possibly a broken rod end. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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