WW1 Grenades both British and Enemy.

[calibre792x57.y]

Had it for years. I was in an Antiques and Militaria shop when guy came in with three of them. The chap on the counter didn't know what they were so I bought all three. Others are long gone. - SW

[Simon127]

Others are long gone. - SW

You obviously knew to preempt my inevitable question: 'do you still have the others?'

What a find. Makes you wonder where he came by three of them; I'm envisaging an officer with a penchant for cricket and paperweights stuffing them into his kitbag before evacuating from Gallipoli.

I've become a great fan recently of all things Turkish and Gallipoli, an interest which seems to gradually be eclipsing my interest in the Western Front.

Simon

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Note the rough cast crescent on the casing. This is the only mark. - SW

SW

Great example, particularly like the marking.

Regards,

LF

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

might be of interest, from the war illustrated 3rd February 1917

"Pte. John Cunningham, V.C., East York reft. (portrait left) in a communication trench beyond a captured line went forward alone, and meeting ten of the enemy killed them with bombs and cleared the trench up to the next line."

"Pte. David Ross Lauder, V.C., Royal Scots Fusiliers, was one of the bombing party retaking a sap. Having thrown a bomb which failed to clear the parapet and rolled back among the party. Private Lauder promptly put his foot on it, thereby localising the explosion. His foot was blown off, but his prompt act of self-sacrifice saved all his companions."

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

The war illustrated, 24th March, 1917.

"Gurkhas bombing their way to a Tigris landing. Kut was rendered untenable to the Turk shortly after general Maude's troops had bridged the Shumran bend, about seven miles above the town. Two Gurkha regiments effected a crossing some distance below the new bridge against a withering machine-gun fire, and, after a bombing duel, firmly established themselves on the left bank."

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

The war illustrated, 21st April, 1917.

"During the recent advance in the west the British on reaching the German trenches frequently found that the enemy had not waited for bomb and bayonet, but had "stolen away". "

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

The war illustrated, 26th May, 1917.

"both sides are digging feverishly on the Hindenburg line, the British to organise captured positions, the Germans to perfect new ones. Even sappers and roadmakers on both sides come into collision, and spades are dropped and bombs and rifles snatched up for action."

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

The war illustrated. 9th June, 1917.

"Canadians fighting their way to Fresnoy. When they found in front of them a trench of German grenadiers they threw themselves flat on the ground and steadily fired rifle-grenades "till the enemy surrendered or fled or died - it did not matter which to these grim men." "

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

The war illustrated, 28th July, 1917.

"Portuguese soldiers at Bomb practice, ... "

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The war illustrated, 26th May, 1917.

I am sure many a young boy, and many adults also, marvelled at our brave soldiers' exploits recounted in the pages of War Illustrated during WW1, grenades often playing a role in the action.

That publication, being one of the ways the general public kept themselves informed of what was happening at the Front.

Thanks for posting.

Regards,

LF

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

I am sure many a young boy, and many adults also, marvelled at our brave soldiers' exploits recounted in the pages of War Illustrated during WW1, grenades often playing a role in the action.

That publication, being one of the ways the general public kept themselves informed of what was happening at the Front.

Thanks for posting.

Regards,

LF

Hey LF,

no worries, I'm looking through my extracts I have in two large bound books for mills bomb/grenade related snippets.

warm regards,

Haydn

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

25th August, 1917.

"Near Hollebeke and La Basse Ville the Germans had some wonderful concrete "pill-boxes" dotted about the ground covering machine-guns, and when clustered together forming redoubts not easily destroyed by shell fire. One had no apparent entrance, being approached by tunnels coming up in the centre. It was built with a ventilation slit, in which the British "posted" bombs with great effect.

[Gunner Bailey]

Simon

Your D on the No 5 body is a cast mark.

LF / Simon

The earliest extant No 5 Baseplug I've seen is May 1915 (just one). There are just a few for June 1915 and a handful for July 1915. The month of August 1915 is when production clearly increased and there are more of these around (I have 3).

Regarding all those WW1 magazines... they look good but are not reliable as history. 90% posed photos and 100% propaganda in the writing. They were telling the public what they wanted them to hear and see.

John

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

25th August, 1917.

"at one point along the comines canal the British advance was held up by a German posted on the railway embankment with a machine-gun. An English soldier stalked him, and then, creeping up the embankment, put the German out with a bomb and captured the gun.

Simon

Your D on the No 5 body is a cast mark.

LF / Simon

The earliest extant No 5 Baseplug I've seen is May 1915 (just one). There are just a few for June 1915 and a handful for July 1915. The month of August 1915 is when production clearly increased and there are more of these around (I have 3).

Regarding all those WW1 magazines... they look good but are not reliable as history. 90% posed photos and 100% propaganda in the writing. They were telling the public what they wanted them to hear and see.

John

Hey John,

I agree with you R.E. the staged nature of the magazine and propaganda, I'll try and just pick out the 'real' photographs instead

regards.

Haydn

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

The war illustrated, 29th september, 1917.

"firing rifle-grenades across into "dummy" trenches during the series of fighting competitions at a Canadian training camp in England. These competitions were carried out in most realistic fashion with bursting mines and smoke-bombs and all the din of modern warfare.

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

not a 'real' photograph but still of interest due to a mills bomb related V.C.

in the 10th November, 1917. issue.

"Sergeant John Carmicheal, V.C., North Staffordshire regiment, while excavating a trench, saw an uneathed grenade starting to burn. to have thrown it away would have endangered men working on the top, so, yelling a warning, he placed his helmet on the grenade and stood on the helmet. Though badly injured by the explosion, he saved many lives.

[Gunner Bailey]

The war illustrated, 29th september, 1917.

"firing rifle-grenades across into "dummy" trenches during the series of fighting competitions at a Canadian training camp in England. These competitions were carried out in most realistic fashion with bursting mines and smoke-bombs and all the din of modern warfare.

Quite possibly in the Practice Trenches south west of Shornecliffe Barracks (Folkestone), the remains of which can still be seen.

John

[wulfrik-the-wanderer]

hey everyone,

I recently acquired these two mills grenades that were in 'relic condition', I realise they are a bit more 'salty' than most of the perfect condition one's on this topic, they have since had a clean and some time and sympathy put into them. I was wondering what people could tell me about them? both no.5's? in the first picture, the grenade on the left had a small stub of the grenade lever left, the copper safety pin and the striker plunger and spring all rusted into a solid lump, I have removed the pin for safe keeping and after some oil and a bit of messing about with the spring and plunger have came free and the spring still works! (good old British engineering). the grenade on the left appears to my eyes to a bit more bulbous to the one on the right? and the cast for the filling plug seems closer to the body a little bit than the one on the right? the only markings on either is an M? on the right hand grenade, does this indicate Morum and co, London?

any information is greatly appreciated.

regards,

Haydn

[Gunner Bailey]

Haydn

You are right about the shapes. There are a whole range of body shapes, especially the area around the filling hole. Manufacturers were sent the design by the Army Design Office(CIW) in Woolwich. They then made a master and as long as the dimensions were ok and all the standard parts fitted, the grenades were made.

Those springs are amazing. In most cases as good today as when they were made even after 90+ years of compression and corrosion. The striker you have is the first type without the slot. The slot was added to allow more space for smoke from the fuze.

The M on the grenade would only be a mould mark. It could be any maker. It was not until the Mk 23 Mk III that there was a requirement to put the makers mark on the body.

John

[calibre792x57.y]

GB, I always understood that the striker was slotted because the firing of the rimfire primer caused a sharp pressure increase inside the cap chamber which could (and did) cause premature detonation of the detonator. The slot prevented this rapid pressure build up. In the meantime bombers were instructed to pack the area around the fuze with lutin or similar substances to prevent the pressure wave from reaching the detonator.. It was not the smoke of the burning fuze as such as the safety fuze used burns quite slowly - 23-37 seconds per foot used to be the quoted rate when using it.- SW

[tocemma]

The war illustrated, 29th september, 1917.

"firing rifle-grenades across into "dummy" trenches during the series of fighting competitions at a Canadian training camp in England. These competitions were carried out in most realistic fashion with bursting mines and smoke-bombs and all the din of modern warfare.

Not directly connected to this image, but there was a grenade training school at Godstone which had a very elaborate series of trenches replicating a full scale enemy front line system. This was complete with strong points and pill-boxes etc. I have a map of it somewhere. I've often wondered if traces still remain.

Regards

Tocemma

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Most unusual, and the first photograph I have seen of Mills Grenades used as WW1 grave markers.

Grave of Lt. D. Boyd Carpenter.

LF

[Gunner Bailey]

SW

I think we are looking at the same thing trom two directions. The problem with smoke would equal pressure. This caused a fast burn through prompting detonator ignition in a second rather than 5 seconds.

John

[Gunner Bailey]

Not directly connected to this image, but there was a grenade training school at Godstone which had a very elaborate series of trenches replicating a full scale enemy front line system. This was complete with strong points and pill-boxes etc. I have a map of it somewhere. I've often wondered if traces still remain.

Regards

Tocemma

There's an even better one at Barham by the A2 SE of Canterbury. Subject of a thread a couple of years ago. Was very visible on Google Earth, but not in the current photos. Its the field opposite where Out Elmstead Lane joins the A2. Worth looking up. John

See http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108545&hl=%2Bbarham+%2Btrenches

[tocemma]

Thanks John,

I'll have a look later on and dig out the Godstone map. Looks similar to the ones at Barham from memory ie three lines of trenches, communication trenches etc.

Regards

Paul