egbert Posted 25 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2014 Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment 56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 25 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2014 Even the observer slits take the steep slope in front of them into consideration and are downhill bent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 25 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2014 From here the French lines were just a stone's throw away. The thickness of the metal is appr. 1.5 inch and the artillery observer could direct own fire across the whole range of own artillery and mortars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 25 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2014 Looks like an old acquaintance; looking down wards. It is the same as the one posted in #912 -the sheltered mortar position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 26 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2014 Tangled iron everywhere on top of the rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 26 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2014 and phantastic clear views. This one across the valley to wards the Sudelkopf mountain (which I will explore extensively next Monday with the help of mon ami Vosgien). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 26 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2014 A few meters away from the Adlerhorst observation post , still on top of the rock, concrete trenches and fortifications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 26 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2014 A commanding view from the top of the fortress. In blue=appr. front line. The mountain in the far distance is the highest mountain of the Vosges, named Grand Ballon=Großer Belchem. Foreground ridge is Roche Dure=Hartfelsen, Sudelkopf mountain right side NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 26 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2014 THEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 26 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2014 High noon watch at 760m alt. Then & Now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 26 September , 2014 Share Posted 26 September , 2014 Superb images. I love the juxtapositions. I think it's worth adding that le Grand Ballon is 1424 metres. It is all formidable territory. I was walking up le Grand Ballon last week: there is a memorial to the Diables Bleus up there and a radar station. (I got close but not to the summit because I was recovering from having had cellulitis the previous week and I simply exhausted my energy.) I have considerable respect for the men who were despatched up there to these very challenging, arduous conditions. The climate in these Vosges battlefields can be glacial or scorching and there may not be much in between. It can vary within hours and a few kilometres. We had dense fog with temperatures of 5° at Col de la Schlucht and temperatures of 30° in Munster. Egbert, a hundred years ago this month, the Germans and the French fought for control of Col de la Chipotte, with terrible casualties. One of the problems both sides had then was that a lot of the men had no experience of fighting in densely forested mountain territory. As the battles for Hartmanswillerkopf began within four months or so of that battle, how far had the Germans by then addressed the problem that this type of forested terrain was unfamiliar to some of their troops? Was it still a handicap to some? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 26 September , 2014 Share Posted 26 September , 2014 I think it's worth adding that le Grand Ballon is 1424 metres. Last time I was up there, my eldest lad found a shrapnel ball just slightly upwards of the Blue Devils memorial (in the area of those mystery sangar-like positions). He likes to think that it is (and I can't really argue) possibly the Western Front's highest battlefield relic! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 26 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2014 ...... As the battles for Hartmanswillerkopf began within four months or so of that battle, how far had the Germans by then addressed the problem that this type of forested terrain was unfamiliar to some of their troops? Was it still a handicap to some? Gwyn Gwyn, the Landwehr regiments had no experience and they were elderly men. A bit different it was with the Bavarian units that were used to mountainous regions. But in general it was a "Learning-by-doing" affair. I have some excellent examples from Killians book about the difficult understanding and learning of mortar warfare in the mountains. The thick forest (until shot to pieces in 1915) was also a real problem. The French forces fired from tall fir trees, the German soldiers did not understand at first where the fires came from; for artillery firing and of course the mortar firings you had to forward deploy the observers as far as possible in order to direct fire in the forest. Many were casualties of friendly fire. Especially the elderly soldiers from the Landwehr units were extremely proud on themselves to cope so quickly with this new warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 28 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2014 The next 2 fortresses in line would be "Veilchenstein" and "Doppelkopf". They also are bored into 2 prominent rock formations. As has been told before- the last fortress "Adlerhorst" is also directly connected via a tunnel to the higher fortress Veilchenstein besides the labyrinth of surface trenches. Here is a post war picture, taken from the French lines showing the German side with its fortresses. The vegetation re-grows already but by far is not so thick and forested as it is today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithtug Posted 28 September , 2014 Share Posted 28 September , 2014 Egbert, I have only recently found the GWF and then your posts about HWK. They have certainly improved my knowledge of the War, up until now I had no idea that there was fighting in the mountains in the Alsace area, and I can sympathise with the troops of all sides as I was a member of the RAF Mountain Rescue back in the '60s in the north of Scotland and have first hand knowledge of mountains in winter. Thank you very much for posting all these photos. Please do not give up! Best regards, Keithtug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_oz Posted 29 September , 2014 Share Posted 29 September , 2014 Egbert As always its great to see these pictures thank you so much for sharing them. Dragons and your posts have made this a must visit area when Im there next year. Tim B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 29 September , 2014 Share Posted 29 September , 2014 ... up until now I had no idea that there was fighting in the mountains in the Alsace area... You can find quite a few more illustrated threads about the Great War in the Vosges and Alsace by clicking on the tags [marked by a symbol like a luggage label] at the bottom of Egbert's thread. I think most of them are by Egbert or me. If you're interested, I am blogging about the area in the period 1871-1914 (and a bit into the war) at the Blue Line Frontier. I make use of my collection of archive postcards and documents and my own photos. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithtug Posted 30 September , 2014 Share Posted 30 September , 2014 Thanks Gwyn, I shall have a look. Regards, Keithtug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 30 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2014 I have just returned from a further Vosges mountain warfare research trip. Totally off-site and hidden fortresses on Sudelkopf mountain. Sudelkopf neighbors HWK. Fantastic pristine underground fortresses with fully intact wooden paneling as if had been left yesterday by German troops. One day cleanup and most can be used again. These places can not be traced easy and only with the help of mon ami Vosgien and exact maps. It was a strenuous climb up and down and took the whole day-but totally worth it. Teaser photo here: And now back to HWK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 30 September , 2014 Share Posted 30 September , 2014 Thanks for the information about the problems of the forests, Egbert. I'm very glad you had a stimulating day on Sudel. I'm sorry not to have been able to help with maps. Would you consider a new thread for Sudelkopf? This thread is getting quite long to scroll through! Re your current images of your travels on HWK: were these fortifications used in WW2 as well? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 30 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2014 Thanks for the information about the problems of the forests, Egbert. I'm very glad you had a stimulating day on Sudel. I'm sorry not to have been able to help with maps. Louis brought all the necessary maps- thanx! Would you consider a new thread for Sudelkopf? This thread is getting quite long to scroll through! I do not know whether I will post the Sudel at all/ later, I am glad that at least this HWK thread gains some interest . Only 6 pals follow it routinely Re your current images of your travels on HWK: were these fortifications used in WW2 as well? Operational-no. There was a SS training facility for mountain warfare on the Eastern slope of HWK Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 30 September , 2014 Share Posted 30 September , 2014 I'm still here Egbert and quietly following it daily. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy hall Posted 30 September , 2014 Share Posted 30 September , 2014 And me. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntanner Posted 30 September , 2014 Share Posted 30 September , 2014 Following it daily! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 30 September , 2014 Share Posted 30 September , 2014 I know it often seems dispiriting, but you mustn't assume that people aren't interested if they decide not to comment. Sometimes it seems a shame to interrupt the flow of pictures. A 'like' button would be most useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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