WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[johnboy]

[johnboy]

Couldn't add text the above post,

It is a Mack carrying what looks like a searchlight mounted on a trailer.

Notice the chain drive n/s rear.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Couldn't add text the above post,

It is a Mack carrying what looks like a searchlight mounted on a trailer.

Notice the chain drive n/s rear.

Johnboy,

Yes, a really nice American Mack AC ( Bulldog ) truck, that one I think was made post WW1 probably in the 1920s, with the distinctive Mack ' M ' on the front of the bonnet.

Here is an earlier ( late WW1 ) Mack AC truck being used to transport a Light French tank, again with the chain-drive rear wheel.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

American Mack truck poster.

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The American Kelly Springfield Truck, which was very similar in design to the Mack AC with the same chain drive rear wheel, note the radiator positioned at the back of the bonnet directly in front of the cab, this was done to minimize damage to the radiator in the event of a front end impact damage.

LF

[Great War Truck]

The American Mack AC Truck introduced in 1915, note the radiator positioned at the back of the bonnet directly in front of the cab, this was done to minimize damage to the radiator in the event of a front end impact damage.

LF

I think you will find that is a Kelly Springfield.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I think you will find that is a Kelly Springfield.

Yes, you are correct that is an American Kelly Springfield, same rear chain drive, here is the correct photo for that caption, the Mack AC introduced in 1915 ( later model ) with the same radiator positioning at the rear of the bonnet.

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1917 American Kelly Springfield truck.

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1916 Kelly Springfield truck advertisement, a very similar truck to the Mack AC., same rear wheel chain drive and although the bonnet design was again very similar to the Mack, the Mack's bonnet was more angular and had the Mack ' M ' logo on the front of the bonnet.

LF

[KONDOA]

I agree, Mr S. These were weapons for fighting the last war i.e. the Boer War. None of them envisaged the artillery battle which took place from behind the trenches on either side. Interesting to see the caterpillar tractor in use without comment. Perhaps the tank was not such a brilliant leap of the imagination as we are sometimes led to believe. Great series of cards and I look forward to seeing all of them. Perhaps we ought to bear in mind that Wills Cigarette Co, like Granda reminiscing, were not on oath.

The caterpillar track was developed and patented by Richard Hornsby of Grantham. Finding no immediate market for the invention he sold the idea and patents to Holt &Best. When the tank was developed the caterpillar track was already well established.

Roop

[Lancashire Fusilier]

We have seen the remarkable similarities in design features of both the Mack and Kelly Springfield vehicles with their distinctive sloping bonnet and the radiator being mounted behind the bonnet directly in front of the driver's cab, such particular similarities cannot be pure coincidence, they must have arisen either from mutual collaboration between the two American motor companies, or from one company copying the other's designs.

However, this similarity in specific design features, such as the sloping bonnet, and the positioning of the radiator, are even more remarkable in that they are repeated across the Atlantic thousands of miles away in France by the Renault Motor Company, who also produced a series of vehicles again with that distinctive sloping bonnet and with the radiator mounted at the back of the bonnet directly in front of the driver's cab. The reasons given for locating the radiator in this position, were to protect the radiator against front end collision damage, and also with the radiator being located directly in front of the driver's cab, it also provided some heat to the driver during the winter.

In the attached interesting photograph we see a group of British officers in the area of the Marne River using a French Renault Tourer, and the caption for the photograph states that the vehicle was previously captured and used by the Germans, and was abandoned by the Germans during their Retreat from the Marne in September 1914.

Again, we see this Renault vehicle has the distinctive sloping bonnet with the radiator mounted at the back of the bonnet and directly in front of the driver's cab, as with both the American Mack and Kelly Springfield designs.

The Renault Motor Company was founded in 1899 by three French brothers, Louis, Marcel and Fernand Renault. Marcel Renault was killed in 1903 in a car crash whilst driving a factory Renault car in the Paris to Madrid Race, and Fernand Renault died in 1909, having retired in 1906 due to ill health.

Louis became the sole owner of Renault and re-named the company the Societe des Automobiles Renault. The Renault company was extremely successful, and during WW1 supplied the French Government with vehicles, munitions and airplanes, with Louis Renault being awarded the French Legion of Honour for his war efforts.

One of Renault's most famous and successful vehicles was their Renault Type AG automobile produced between 1905 - 1910, with several thousand being used as taxis both in Paris and London. This French taxi was to become famous during WW1 as the ' Taxi de la Marne '.

The Renault taxi's connection with the Marne came from the First Battle of the Marne fought between 5th - 12th September 1914, when as a result of the Germans early victories in the first month of WW1, the French Army and the British Expeditionary Force ( BEF ) were pushed back in general retreat between Paris and Verdun, and with the German conquest of Belgium it seemed that the Germans would rapidly advance into France and take Paris.

The French Army and the BEF fell back towards the Marne River, and with the possibility of a German breakthrough against the French 6th Army, French General Joseph Gallieni, the Military Governor of Paris, ordered the requisition of some 600 Paris taxis to convoy 6000 French reserve infantry to the Marne front, these additional French forces altered the course of the Battle of the Marne and resulted in the retreat of the Germans from the Marne River back to the Aisne River, and set the stage for the next four years of stalemate on the Western Front.

The use of the Renault Paris taxis and the resulting French victory became known as the ' Miracle at the Marne ' and the taxis being known as the ' Taxis de la Marne.

LF

IWM2647 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Photo showing the distinct similarities in the design of the Renault Tourer's bonnet and the positioning of the radiator, as seen on both the Mack and Kelly Springfield vehicle designs.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

French troops riding in a Renault Tourer.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[johnboy]

The mounting of the rad would have protected it from stone damage and saved on pipework. It would have cooled better if mounted at the front given the increased air pressure.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Renault Type AG Paris taxi ' Taxi de la Marne '.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Renault Paris taxis, lined up to transport French troops during the Battle of the Marne.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

Excellent painting depicting the ' Taxis de la Marne '.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Examples of Renault Tourers with their distinctive sloping bonnets and the radiators mounted at the back of the bonnet, directly in front of the driver's cab.

LF

These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The three Renault brothers, Louis, Marcel and Fernand.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Another nice depiction of the ' Taxi de la Marne ' convoy, September 1914.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Insignia of the French 104th Infantry Regiment which took part in the ' Taxi de la Marne ' convoy, and the Battle of the Marne.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Renault Taxis leaving Paris as part of the ' Taxi de la Marne ' convoy, September 1914.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Battle of the Somme - Photo shows a destroyed British Staff Car by the road in Authuille, a small village adjacent to Thiepval in the Picardy region of Northern France.

The photo is dated in September, 1916.

LF

IWM927 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GRANVILLE]

Another nice depiction of the ' Taxi de la Marne ' convoy, September 1914.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

I'm currently reading Max Hastings superb work 'Catastrophe' and can't help but wince when I see this image, which is not artistic licence, but a very good depiction of the colourful uniforms the French entered the war wearing in 1914. Max spends time highlighting the sheer folly of the enterprise and you can clearly see what a target their massed ranks will have presented to the machine gunners. Tragic.

David

[johnboy]

Battle of Thiepval end of September 1916

[Lancashire Fusilier]

David,

Those colourful early ' Poilu ' French uniforms, which were more a throw-back to the Napoleonic period, would have as you say, presented excellent targets to the Germans, no mistaking those bright trousers/pantaloons.

Regards,

LF