Lancashire Fusilier Posted 20 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2014 Battle of Thiepval end of September 1916 Johnboy, That Staff Car, was obviously caught up in that battle. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 20 January , 2014 Share Posted 20 January , 2014 Equipped as a fire engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 20 January , 2014 Share Posted 20 January , 2014 Battle of the Somme - Photo shows a destroyed British Staff Car by the road in Authuille, a small village adjacent to Thiepval in the Picardy region of Northern France. The photo is dated in September, 1916. LF IWM927 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. It could possibly be an AC, they had the gearbox mounted on the back axle as the car in the photograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 20 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2014 Equipped as a fire engine A super nice Kelly Springfield fire truck, attached is another version of the Kelly Springfield fire engine. Thanks for posting. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 20 January , 2014 Share Posted 20 January , 2014 Battle of Thiepval end of September 1916 I don't want to deflect this wonderful thread, but I felt I would just mention one brief paragraph in Max Hastings book, I'm also not at all sure the French were still fool enough to be fighting in red and blue by the end of 1916? On the 22nd August 1914 there was bloody carnage taking place at various places including Rossignol in which the French losses were astronomical. Max writes: "The fighting on this day, the 22nd (August) cost the French army 27,000 men killed, in addition to wounded and missing in proportion. This was a much larger loss than the British suffered on 1 July 1916, which is wrongly cited as the Frist World War's high-blood mark." David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 20 January , 2014 Share Posted 20 January , 2014 David, my reply was directed at the post re staff car dated 'end of September 1916'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 20 January , 2014 Share Posted 20 January , 2014 David, my reply was directed at the post re staff car dated 'end of September 1916'. Ah. Apologies, That makes much more sense!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Eggs Posted 21 January , 2014 Share Posted 21 January , 2014 ref. post 1168, just to go back to road wheels , shows a good shot of the splined hub and at that time the various wheels and mountings that were available, so I thought to check one of my books on Modern Motor Cars printed circa 1920.On construction and maintenance. I have attatched the following selection of wheels that may be of interest. Crimson Rambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 21 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2014 ref. post 1168, just to go back to road wheels , shows a good shot of the splined hub and at that time the various wheels and mountings that were available. Many thanks for providing excellent period references on various types of road wheels, including those with spokes and those that were solid metal road wheels, as are also shown on the attached coloured photograph of a Dennis Fire Engine published in a 1913 Dennis sales catalogue, which document solid metal road wheels as being manufactured and used prior to WW1. The 9th hand-coloured photograph from the ' Dennis ' 1913 Motor Fire Engine Catalogue - London Fire Brigade - L.C.C. ( London County Council ) Fire Engine, with solid metal road wheels. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 21 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2014 It could possibly be an AC, they had the gearbox mounted on the back axle as the car in the photograph. Phil, Do you have any more details on this vehicle ? so I can try and identify it. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 21 January , 2014 Share Posted 21 January , 2014 Phil, Do you have any more details on this vehicle ? so I can try and identify it. Regards, LF The AC was a similar sized car to the Ford model T. One was experimentally fitted with an armoured car body. I have no photographs but it closely resembled the bullnose Morris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Eggs Posted 22 January , 2014 Share Posted 22 January , 2014 Re. your request regarding the AC armoured car I have one picture of the tiny Autocarrier which is the AC company ,one was produced on the 10 HP chassis, but was totally unsuited for conversion to anarmoured vehicle. Crimson Rambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Eggs Posted 22 January , 2014 Share Posted 22 January , 2014 Re the AC armoured car, I have a drawing of a1920 car model may be similar ,but I think the one used for the armoured car trial may not be the same , but may have had the bullnose and may have had the same chassis. Crimson Rambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 22 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2014 Re. your request regarding the AC armoured car I have one picture of the tiny Autocarrier which is the AC company ,one was produced on the 10 HP chassis, but was totally unsuited for conversion to anarmoured vehicle. Crimson Rambler. Many thanks for the very interesting photo of the small Autocarrier prototype, a photo I had not seen before, and It is easy to see how some features on that Autocarrier were incorporated into the designs for later larger armoured cars. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 22 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2014 Re the AC armoured car, I have a drawing of a1920 car model Many thanks for the drawing, I was able to find another photograph of that same destroyed Staff Car, which will give us some additional information to help to identify that car. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 22 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2014 The AC was a similar sized car to the Ford model T. One was experimentally fitted with an armoured car body. I have no photographs but it closely resembled the bullnose Morris. Phil, Crimson Rambler has come up with the photo of the experimental small sized AC car fitted with an armoured car body, and I also found another photo of that same destroyed vehicle by the road at Authuille, which will also give us a lot more detail. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 22 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2014 With reference to post #1196, I was able to find another photo of that same shelled British vehicle lying by the side of the road in Authuille, Northern France. This new photo, taken from a different angle, and sometime later than the previous photo, probably after the vehicle had been salvaged for parts, gives us a lot more detail of the car. The photo also shows a British soldier, who from his cap badge, looks to be from the Machine Gun or Tank Corps, having his photo taken from inside the destroyed car. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Eggs Posted 23 January , 2014 Share Posted 23 January , 2014 Hello LF , a better view of the car not easy to name it and i agree the salvage men have done a good job. I am sure you have seen the no.14495 on the side and I am sure the smiling chap at the window is an MGC man. Just found another Armoured Car picture of Ford model T.and note the front wheel they have used a Stepney rim and tyre as a temporary repair, clamped to the front wheel due a puncture. as detailed in post 1207. Crimson Rambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 23 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2014 Just found another Armoured Car picture of Ford model T.and note the front wheel they have used a Stepney rim and tyre as a temporary repair, clamped to the front wheel due a puncture. as detailed in post 1207. Crimson Rambler. Another excellent photograph of an early Ford Model T converted to an armoured car for the RNAS, also showing the ' Stepney Rim ' in use. The armour fabrication work being done by W. G. Allen & Sons of Tipton ( near Birmingham ) Staffs. W. G. Allen & Sons. ( founded in 1850 ) were Mechanical Engineers and Metal Fabricators, providing equipment for use in the mining industry ( Colliery Wagons ) and also rolling stock for light railways. Amazingly, some of W. G. Allen's equipment was exported as far as the island of Mauritius, in the Indian Ocean, where Allen's supplied ' Cane Wagons ' for use on the island's sugar plantations. W. G. Allen & Son., appears to have still been in business in the late 1960's. Attached is a W. G. Allen & Sons' trade advertisement ( 1940s ) showcasing their services. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 23 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2014 An example of W. G. Allen & Sons metal work, a ' Cane Wagon ' made in Tipton, Staffs and sent to the Indian Ocean island of Mauritius for use on the sugar plantation light railway, pulled by a 930 mm gauge engine the ' Sir William '. Also, a photo of ' Allen's ' wagon name plate. LF These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Eggs Posted 23 January , 2014 Share Posted 23 January , 2014 Allen and sons of Tipon busy again ,another Armoured car. Crimson Rambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Allen and sons of Tipon busy again ,another Armoured car. Crimson Rambler. Many thanks for another great photo. The ' Pierce-Arrow ' armoured car shown in your photograph, was in fact an American made Pierce-Arrow truck chassis, built by the American company under contracts with the British War Department and Britain's Allies, France and Russia, with some 14,000 Pierce-Arrow trucks being shipped to Britain and her Allies during WW1. Some of the Pierce-Arrow chassis, were then converted into armoured cars by metal fabrication companies such as W. G. Allen & Sons of Tipton, Staffs. Here is a photograph of the completed ' Pierce-Arrow ' armoured car shown in your photograph, which saw service in Russia on the Eastern Front. Regards, LF IWM. This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Here is an American 1912 trade advertisement for the 5-Ton Pierce-Arrow Truck, similar to the truck supplied to the British War Department during WW1. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 The American Pierce-Arrow 2-Ton Truck. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 The American built Pierce-Arrow truck, as supplied to the British War Department during WW1, the chassis for which was used on the ' Pierce-Arrow ' armoured cars. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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