Lancashire Fusilier Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 The Vauxhall seems to have been a popular British Staff Car, here we see another Vauxhall D Type on a congested French road carrying a senior British officer, passing a unit of French soldiers. Also, note the car's solid wheels and military style klaxon fitted to the car. LF IWM. This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Strewth. Is that Taff Gillingham driving that staff car!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Strewth. Is that Taff Gillingham driving that staff car!! Could be ?? Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Spooky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 It is him driving now! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 It is him driving now! David David, Great photograph, and is that John Cleese holding onto the windshield ? Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 David, Great photograph, and is that John Cleese holding onto the windshield ? Regards, LF No, not John Cleese, but my money is on Captain Darling. Not sure if that is General Melchett in the back! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Are the wheels solid or are the visible faces wheel trims? A solid wheel would make the unsprung weight considerably greater than usual and would probably adversely affect the ride. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War Truck Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Keith You are quite right. The wheels are metal spoke covered with canvas trim. You can see that clearer on the first photo. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Are the wheels solid or are the visible faces wheel trims? A solid wheel would make the unsprung weight considerably greater than usual and would probably adversely affect the ride. Keith Keith & Tim, Wheel trims/covers were used at that time, however, they appear to have been made of solid metal. This can be clearly seen from the wheels on King George V's Rolls Royce. The wheels on his car are either solid, or have metal covers. Looking at the inside of the front left wheel, the wheel appears solid, and spokes are not visible from the underside. I doubt that fabric/canvas would give that appearance or the required durability. Attached is a photo of another 1914 Vauxhall D Type Military Staff Car, again with solid wheels or metal wheel covers. Regards, LF These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 If you look closely at the spare wheel on the Vauxhall Staff Car in post #1150, that spare wheel has a canvas cover ( note the ripples in the canvas ), and that cover is completely different to the car's road wheels. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 You can see why covering a spoked wheel on both sides would make sense. Unsprung weight needs to be kept to a minimum and any build-up of mud around the spokes would add weight and mean the wheel would not move up and down as quickly as it should over rough ground. Covers need not add much weight, though, as they could be made from thin steel sheet. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 I think the solid wheel approach also had much to do with simply helping to make the wheels easier to clean. Once caked in dried mud, spoked wheels are a nightmare job, especially without the aid of a jet-wash. By the 1940's (if not earlier) 'easy clean' wheel were being advertised i.e. pressed metal as opposed to spoked. I have spoked on a 1937 Morris 8 and whilst the easy-cleans might have been easier, they are not half as attractive as the spoked. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Eggs Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 (edited) In my opinion wheel discs were for style ,may well keep the appearance of the wheel looking good but all the muck will still get to the inside of the wheel. Crimson Rambler. Edited 16 January , 2014 by crimson rambler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 Talk about reinventing the wheel. If you look at my profile picture, you will see a soild rear wheel. I don't think keeping the wheels clean helps, a spooked wheel will shed mud easily. A canves cover if anything would trap mud inside it if anything. Vanity I think as trucks etc did not have such frippery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 16 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2014 The photo shows a damaged and overturned Austin Armoured Car, with its detached right turret lying nearby. Depending on the logistics, a vehicle recovery unit from the ASC or possibly the Tank Corps, would have salvaged this armoured car for repair or spare parts. Unfortunately, there is not date or location for this photograph. LF IWMQ3576 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Eggs Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 Hello LF Sorry to see my favourite armoured car in serious trouble but they did take a bashing at times and as you say salvage was very important for cars and tanks. I have attatched part of a report covering this, may be of interest. Crimson Rambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 16 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2014 salvage was very important for cars and tanks. I have attatched part of a report covering this, may be of interest. Crimson Rambler. Many thanks, and yes it is always very important and interesting to see a written report. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 17 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2014 Here are 2 further photos, which adequately show that solid metal road wheels were used on WW1 cars. Both the photos were taken at one of the Army's main transport depots at Etaples, which was both a coastal port town and important railway link in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of Northern France, located 63 miles east of Lille, and some 50 miles north west of Arras. The photos show VAD ( Voluntary Aid Detachment ) volunteer mechanics working on vehicles with solid metal wheels, one of which is a Vauxhall D Type. We can clearly see both the fronts ( which are metal not canvas ) and the backs of the wheels, which are also of solid metal construction. LF IWMQ9050/47 These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifanlloyd Posted 17 January , 2014 Share Posted 17 January , 2014 This has become an absolutley fascinating thread. With the staff cars,some are obviously black but what other colours would they have been?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 17 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2014 This has become an absolutley fascinating thread. With the staff cars,some are obviously black but what other colours would they have been?? Pleased to hear you are enjoying this Thread. Many of the vehicles purchased directly by the WD from the large vehicle manufacturers under Government contracts, would have been painted in the usual ' Army ' green ( see attached photo of a restored Vauxhall D Type Staff Car ), other vehicles, which had been previously civilian vehicles, could have been painted in other colours, mainly black, however, as we can see from the attached rare WW1 coloured photo which shows a Vauxhall D Type, that vehicle looks to be painted grey. Regards, LF These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War Truck Posted 17 January , 2014 Share Posted 17 January , 2014 I am sorry but I still disagree with you. Both sets of wheel trims have rivets in them. You are not going to be able or need to rivet a solid metal wheel. If the wheel was riveted like that then it would be rather difficult to balance it properly, especially for a speedy D Type. The second photo definitely has metal wheel trims (as opposed to canvas ones) inside and out. The trim on the Vauxhall is clearly buckling where it is riveted and you can see how thin it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 17 January , 2014 Share Posted 17 January , 2014 Third para under the heading 'Wheel Design' sheds some more light on solid wheel discs or rims. David http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2010/01/01/hmn_tips2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 17 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2014 (as opposed to canvas ones) inside and out. Great War Truck, I appreciate the follow up. All that is absolutely certain, is that the road wheels were not canvas covered, only the spare wheel had a canvas cover. You can only imagine the problem of a canvas covered road wheel interacting with the roads on the Western Front, mud, water, debris or every kind, etc., canvas would have not lasted too long, and having falling apart and shredded, as they would, they could have easily become entangled in the wheels. As to metal wheel trims/covers/solid metal wheels, David's excellent reference ( post # 1172 ) details what is clearly shown in posts # 1168 & 1159. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 17 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2014 Third para under the heading 'Wheel Design' sheds some more light on solid wheel discs or rims. David, Many thanks for researching an excellent reference, as you say it sheds some ' bright ' light on early metal wheel designs. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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