Postcards

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Raster Scanning said:

Annual camp of the Bedford Grammar School Officer Training Corps. This unit was affiliated and badged to the Royal Engineers.

Interesting to see the old system of bedrolls blocked outside the tent for inspection each day.  Here’s an example of the shoulder title seen in the photograph.

[Raster Scanning]

12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Interesting to see the old system of bedrolls blocked outside the tent for inspection each day.  Here’s an example of the shoulder title seen in the photograph.

Not quite the same. This is the Bedford Modern School. They are wearing the Grammar School, which was a different school and is a much harder one to find..

[Raster Scanning]

The only one I can see on line is a damaged one. Later they changed to simply Bedford School with 'Grammar' removed.

 

Edited 15 November , 2023 by Raster Scanning

[Raster Scanning]

There was also one that just said Bedford School. Both Bedford School and Bedford Modern School are still thriving to this day.

Edited 15 November , 2023 by Raster Scanning

[FROGSMILE]

40 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said:

There was also one that just said Bedford School. Both Bedford School and Bedford Modern School are still thriving to this day.

Thank you Raster, very interesting.  OTC titles are clearly a subject all of their own.

[poona guard]

Glad my book was of use.

[poona guard]

2 minutes ago, poona guard said:

Glad my book was of use.

My grammar school was affiliated the the East Yorks and wore their badges.

[Raster Scanning]

33 minutes ago, poona guard said:

Glad my book was of use.

Hi there, what book is that? Always happy to add something new to my reference library.

[Raster Scanning]

As can be seen 5 recruits of the Bedfordshire Regiment at Kempston Barracks after 2 months of training. They have SMLE's but a mixture of equipment. I am estimating this to be around 1910 or a little earlier. These men would have formed part of the BEF in 1914.

[FROGSMILE]

57 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said:

As can be seen 5 recruits of the Bedfordshire Regiment at Kempston Barracks after 2 months of training. They have SMLE's but a mixture of equipment. I am estimating this to be around 1910 or a little earlier. These men would have formed part of the BEF in 1914.

Super photo, the squad appears to be wearing drill order, which was waist belt plus one pouch and bayonet.  I think the date is after 1907 but not much later, as they and the corporal are still wearing leather leggings.

Edited 15 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[poona guard]

5 hours ago, Raster Scanning said:

Hi there, what book is that? Always happy to add something new to my reference library.

My book on Kitchener's Army badges.

[GWF1967]

Training Reserve Men. 

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, GWF1967 said:

Training Reserve Men. 

 

Super photo, even with a man rocking Elton John sunglasses at the back.  I’ve been collecting an illustrative file of TR men for a while now.  I think that the polished GS button on a red felt disc made for a very smart cap insignia.

[GWF1967]

7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Super photo, even with a man rocking Elton John sunglasses at the back.  I’ve been collecting an illustrative file of TR men for a while now.  I think that the polished GS button on a red felt disc made for a very smart cap insignia.

I wasn't sure if Elton was wearing sunglasses or sporting a pair of shiners!

Edited 15 November , 2023 by GWF1967

[GWF1967]

Aberystwyth University Officer Training Corps.

[PRC]

12 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Aberystwyth University Officer Training Corps.

Any idea when the picture was taken?

In the British Army Monthly list for August 1914 The University of Wales, Aberystwyth University College OTC is stated to be 1 Infantry Company, and the permanent officers are Captain J.W. Marshall and Lieutenants T.C. James and H.H. Paine – all Unattached List, Territorial Force. (Column 1893) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103633922

Captain J.W. Marshall

London Gazette May 14, 1909 has Lieutenant John W. Marshall of Aberystwyth University Officer Training Corps promoted Captain with effect from the 17^th July 1909. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28250/page/3656/data.pdf

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a 53 year old University Professor, John Wilson Marshall, recorded as the unmarried head of the household at 6 Marine Terrace, Aberystwyth.

Not the greatest of pictures but he appeared in a group shot of the staff of the college taken c1884/85. He is recorded as the Professor of Classics, subsequently Professor of Greek and was still at the University when he died in 1923. He appears also in staff pictures for 1890, 1891 and 1892-93. Cropping him out and doing a side by side comparison, does he look like a match for the OTC Captain?

No New IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owners.

All known images of John Wilson Marshall courtesy Library of Wales. https://www.library.wales/fileadmin/docs_gwefan/new_structure/catalogues/specialist_catalogues/nlw_journal/cgr_erth_XXXVrh1_2010_4.pdf

Although he may have been a stalwart of the OTC the same source adds “Marshall was a very popular member of staff but he showed in 1914 that he did not flinch from being unpopular in a righteous cause. When the mob were baying for the blood of the German Ethé (another member of staff) after the start of the First World War, Marshall was one who tried unsuccessfully to persuade them of the madness of their ways and was physically assaulted for his pains.”

Lieutenant T.C. James.

The Library of Wales article also has a members of the College Senate photograph from 1926-27 which includes a T.C. James, Professor of Chemistry.

Crop from an image courtesy Library of Wales https://www.library.wales/fileadmin/docs_gwefan/new_structure/catalogues/specialist_catalogues/nlw_journal/cgr_erth_XXXVrh1_2010_4.pdf

On the 1921 Census of England & Wales there is a Thomas Campbell James indexed as born Llanelly c1879 and recorded in the Aberystwyth district. What looks like the same man was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales as an unmarried University Lecturer at the University College living at home with his widowed mother Hannah at 4 Belmont Terrace, Llanelly.

Lieutenant H.H. Paine

London Gazette 17 December, 1912 Henry Howard Paine to be Second Lieutenant, for service with the Aberystwyth Univesity College Contingent, Senior Division, Officers Training Corps. Dated 11^th November 1912. (Under Unattached List for the Territorial Force).
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28672/page/9583/data.pdf

Henry Howard Paine, born 1883, went to school at the Newport High School in Monmouthshire and continued his education at the University College of Wales in Aberystwyth. In 1905 he moved to the University of Cambridge and after graduating worked in the Cavendish Laboratory under Sir J.J. Thomson. In 1908 he published his first paper, in collaboration with W.C.D. Dampier and others, in the Proceedings of the Royal Society of London. It dealt with the electrolytic conductivity of diluted sulphuric acid. By 1914 he had returned to the University College of Wales to teach physics. Meanwhile he had published several papers on colloids during 1911-1914, some in German journals, based on his work in the Cavendish Laboratory. His academic career was interrupted by World War I (1914-1918) when he joined the Royal Welsh Fusiliers in 1914. Later he was transferred to the Royal Engineers in France for research on sound ranging. He held the rank of Captain and was awarded the Military Cross.Subsequently moved to South Africa and became Professor of Physics at Johannesburg University College, (renamed University of Witwatersrand shortly after he joined) and continued teaching into his nineties.
https://www.s2a3.org.za/bio/Biograph_final.php?serial=2105

Cheers,
Peter

[GWF1967]

43 minutes ago, PRC said:

Any idea when the picture was taken?

 

In the British Army Monthly list for August 1914 The University of Wales, Aberystwyth University College OTC is stated to be 1 Infantry Company, and the permanent officers are Captain J.W. Marshall and Lieutenants T.C. James and H.H. Paine – all Unattached List, Territorial Force. 

 

 

Cheers,
Peter

 

Many thanks once again Peter.  
 Unfortunately no details are recorded on the card, it took me quite a while to identify the cap badge.  The photograph was clearly taken at the old college on the promenade, now undergoing restoration. 
 The photographs of John Wilson Marshall look a good fit, especially the 1891 & 1892 pictures. 
 I had read about the treatment of Ethé in “Aberystwyth and The Great War” - William Troughton,  but don’t recollect Marshall being mentioned. 
 The photograph of T.C. James is very hard to judge; the write up for H.H. Paine is a good match age wise and the fact he’d returned to Aberystwyth University by 1914 certainly makes him a strong candidate. 
 Perhaps @FROGSMILE can provide a likely date based on the uniforms and equipment shown. 

Edited 16 November , 2023 by GWF1967

[FROGSMILE]

29 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Many thanks once again Peter.  
 Unfortunately no details are recorded on the card, it took me quite a while to identify the cap badge.  The photograph was clearly taken at the old college on the promenade, now undergoing restoration. 
 The photographs of John Wilson Marshall look a good fit, especially the 1891 & 1892 pictures. 
 I had read about the treatment of Ethé in “Aberystwyth and The Great War” - William Troughton,  but don’t recollect Marshall being mentioned. 
 The photograph of T.C. James is very hard to judge; the write up for H.H. Paine is a good match age wise and the fact he’d returned to Aberystwyth University by 1914 certainly makes him a strong candidate. 
 Perhaps @FROGSMILE can provide a likely date based on the uniforms and equipment shown. 

It’s a photo taken as late as 1913-14, if based on the uniforms.  The cadets all have fixed shoulder straps, so after 1907, the captain wears an original 1902 SD jacket, but the two subalterns wear the open necked version of SD authorised in the 1913 amendment to 1911 Dress Regulations (although that was a year after the actual first introduction). 

Edited 16 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

26 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s a photo taken as late as 1913-14, if based on the uniforms.  The cadets all have fixed shoulder straps, so after 1907, the captain wears an original 1902 SD jacket, but the two subalterns wear the open necked version of SD authorised in the 1913 amendment to 1911 Dress Regulations (although that was a year after the actual first introduction). 

Many thanks. 

[PRC]

May be worth the admins cutting this one off into its own thread - most of the cadets featured will have been commissioned in the Great War and it may be possible to put a few more names to faces.

Cheers,
Peter

[poona guard]

15 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Training Reserve Men. 

Clearly shows that the TR was not just young men.

 

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, poona guard said:

 

Indeed not.  The age limit was raised several times from the original stipulation in Jan 1916 (MSA), and if I recall correctly, was raised to its final maximum in 1918, when for a short, but alarming period, our “backs were against the wall”.

Edited 16 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

"Bristolian" Army Service Corps.

A.S.C. man with black mourning button.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

"Bristolian" Army Service Corps.

A.S.C. man with black mourning button.

That’s one of the best views of a mourning button that I’ve ever seen.  It shows very clearly that there is black gauze stretched over the button as the shape of its design can be discerned beneath.

[GWF1967]

 

Rev. Albert Evan Pickard, Chaplain 4th Class.  Royal Army Chaplain's Department.  18/10/1917   (L.G. 10/11/1917). 

France. 26/2/1918.