Postcards

[GWF1967]

30 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said:

 

I think I can make out four MM ribbons and an MSM ribbon amongst them.     Pete.

Thanks. I thought there was more than one, but the front man was the only one I was sure of. 

[Andrew Upton]

4 hours ago, gunnerwalker said:

A postcard of an unnamed soldier of the Northumberland Fusiliers. Lovely clear examples of his Machine Gunner's Proficiency Badge, good conduct stripe, wound stripes and overseas chevrons.

A beautifully clear shot - clear enough to make out his Good Conduct Stripe is the larger braid type that's technically only supposed to be used on the greatcoat (but as demonstrated also crops up occasionally being utilised on SD jackets).

[GWF1967]

Albert James Tolhurst. M2/175576. Army Service Corps

[GWF1967]

Pte. Abraham Harrison. 12266. 9th Northumberland Fusiliers.  

K.I.A. 31/8/1915. Buried. Ridge Wood Military Cemetery.

[gunnerwalker]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

Albert James Tolhurst. M2/175576. Army Service Corps

Nice card. That cot doesn’t look terribly strong though!

[GWF1967]

Pte. Isaac Bell. 22738.  7th Hussars.

Served with 14th Hussars overseas - Mediterranean Expeditionary Force. 

[GWF1967]

Montgomeryshire Yeomanry.

Fife & Forfar Yeomanry.

[aodhdubh]

On 26/10/2023 at 14:47, FROGSMILE said:

A great tragedy to lose fine men from the educated echelons of a relatively small island community.

Bermudians tend to somewhat New Worldy attitudes, and would not hold those deaths a greater sorrow than those of less privileged islanders. The Trimingham family certainly has been a prominent one throughout the colony's history, starting with Captain John Trimingham, who filled various official roles and, from his military rang, must have been the commander of the militia company of Paget Parish circa the English Civil War...The Royalist had the advantage in Bermuda...Trimingham is most remembered for having been elected Governor: "The Country then put forward John Trimingham and Thomas Burrows to the Council as candidates for Turner's replacement. The Council members elected Trimingham. On Thursday, the 27 September 1649, the Army brought downe the new Gour and he tooke his oathe in the Church according to the usuall forme and vppon ffryday they marched awaye out of the towne (of St Georges) into the mayne."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_overseas_possessions_in_the_Wars_of_the_Three_Kingdoms#The_Chesapeake_Colonies_and_Bermuda

On the subject of education, Wentworth Gray Trimingham  and Joseph Lightbourn Trimingham had a brother named Harold Gilbert Lutyens Trimingham who was studying at Oxford University when the war began, and serving in the the University's OTS, evidently. He enquired about engaging for the Front and was told he could wait some months for a commission or elist as a private. Wanting to go immediately, he enlisted into the 16th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (Queen's Westminsters), was promoted to Corporal, commissioned...wounded in late 1915 and returned to Bermuda to recuperate, and was attached from 18th January, 1916, to the Second Contingent of the Bermuda Volunteer Rifle Corps, which he led to join the Lincolnshire Regiment in September, 1916 (first to Grimsby, then to France), before he transferred to the Tank Corps. Another brother, baptised John Trimingham Trimingham in 1886, and is identified elsewhere as the third soldier in the full version of the second photograph above (see far left below), but was not listed as a member of the contingent when it proceeded overseas in May, 1915, he was actually commissioned and went to France in 1916 as a Second-Lieutenant in the Bermuda Contingent of the Royal Garrison Artillery. Sister Emma Ogilvy Trimingham married Corporal William Dickman 2/4 East Yorkshire Regiment in Paget, Bermuda, in 1918.Two cousins, Eldon Harvey Trimingham and James Harvey Trimingham were both commissioned into the RNVR during the war (their sister, Hilda Trimingham wed Major EH Farmer, RMLI, in 1918).

 

Second photograph below is Harold Gilbert Lutyens Trimingham, and the third is members of the first BVRC Contingent to the Lincolns, including Joseph Lightbourn Trimingham, sitting front row, second from right. Fourth is the 2nd Contingent of the BVRC to the Lincolns, which joined the 1st in France in 1916, with Lieutenant Harold Gilbert Lutyens Trimingham, 16th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (Queen's Westminsters), at centre.

 

Edited 29 October , 2023 by aodhdubh

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, aodhdubh said:

Bermudians tend to somewhat New Worldy attitudes, and would not hold those deaths a greater sorrow than those of less privileged islanders. The Trimingham family certainly has been a prominent one throughout the colony's history, starting with Captain John Trimingham, who filled various official roles and, from his military rang, must have been the commander of the militia company of Paget Parish circa the English Civil War...The Royalist had the advantage in Bermuda...Trimingham is most remembered for having been elected Governor: "The Country then put forward John Trimingham and Thomas Burrows to the Council as candidates for Turner's replacement. The Council members elected Trimingham. On Thursday, the 27 September 1649, the Army brought downe the new Gour and he tooke his oathe in the Church according to the usuall forme and vppon ffryday they marched awaye out of the towne (of St Georges) into the mayne."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_overseas_possessions_in_the_Wars_of_the_Three_Kingdoms#The_Chesapeake_Colonies_and_Bermuda

On the subject of education, Wentworth Gray Trimingham  and Joseph Lightbourn Trimingham had a brother named Harold Gilbert Lutyens Trimingham who was studying at Oxford University when the war began, and serving in the the University's OTS, evidently. He enquired about engaging for the Front and was told he could wait some months for a commission or elist as a private. Wanting to go immediately, he enlisted into the 16th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (Queen's Westminsters), was promoted to Corporal, commissioned...wounded in late 1915 and returned to Bermuda to recuperate, and was attached from 18th January, 1916, to the Second Contingent of the Bermuda Volunteer Rifle Corps, which he led to join the Lincolnshire Regiment in September, 1916 (first to Grimsby, then to France), before he transferred to the Tank Corps. Another brother, baptised John Trimingham Trimingham in 1886, and is identified elsewhere as the third soldier in the full version of the second photograph above (see far left below), but was not listed as a member of the contingent when it proceeded overseas in May, 1915, he was actually commissioned and went to France in 1916 as a Second-Lieutenant in the Bermuda Contingent of the Royal Garrison Artillery. Sister Emma Ogilvy Trimingham married Corporal William Dickman 2/4 East Yorkshire Regiment in Paget, Bermuda, in 1918.Two cousins, Eldon Harvey Trimingham and James Harvey Trimingham were both commissioned into the RNVR during the war (their sister, Hilda Trimingham wed Major EH Farmer, RMLI, in 1918).

 

Second photograph below is Harold Gilbert Lutyens Trimingham, and the third is members of the first BVRC Contingent to the Lincolns, including Joseph Lightbourn Trimingham, sitting front row, second from right. Fourth is the 2nd Contingent of the BVRC to the Lincolns, which joined the 1st in France in 1916, with Lieutenant Harold Gilbert Lutyens Trimingham, 16th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (Queen's Westminsters), at centre.

 

A fascinating rundown of a distinguished family that somehow epitomises the sacrifice of many families of the old empire.  I’ve mentioned before that I hope you might write and publish a history of the military and naval connections with Bermuda, you certainly have the knowledge and abiding interest to do so and would no doubt do the subject great justice.

The second photo showing a solitary officer is interesting in that he appears to have 3 wound stripes on his left cuff, and wears Stohwasser gaiters rather than puttees or long boots.  I cannot make out the details of his cap and collar badges that are unusual and I assume must be associated with Bermuda.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

57 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

A fascinating rundown of a distinguished family that somehow epitomises the sacrifice of many families of the old empire.  I’ve mentioned before that I hope you might write and publish a history of the military and naval connections with Bermuda, you certainly have the knowledge and abiding interest to do so and would no doubt do the subject great justice.

The second photo showing a solitary officer is interesting in that he appears to have 3 wound stripes on his left cuff, and wears Stohwasser gaiters rather than puttees or long boots.  I cannot make out the details of his cap and collar badges that are unusual and I assume must be associated with Bermuda.

Thanks. Running to work or I might write a longer reply. I believe the cap badge is Machine Gun Corps. The BVRC Second Contingent trained as Vickers machine gunners, with guns paid for by local subscription, but on arrival at Grimsby found Vickers guns had been taken from infantry battalions and pooled in the new MGC. They were stripped of their Vickers, merged with the dozen or so remaining of the First Contingent, and the whole re-equipped and trained as Lewis light machine gunners. I surmise Trimingham, due to his training with a Vickers equipped unit was attached to the Machine Gun Corps serving on tanks, wearing the MGC cap badge but still wearing his 16th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (Queen's Westminsters), though it is not clear enough to be certain what the collar badges are. I neglected to mention he was a Rhodes scholar. http://www.rhodes.bm/rhreg.htm

[FROGSMILE]

12 minutes ago, aodhdubh said:

Thanks. Running to work or I might write a longer reply. I believe the cap badge is Machine Gun Corps. The BVRC Second Contingent trained as Vickers machine gunners, with guns paid for by local subscription, but on arrival at Grimsby found Vickers guns had been taken from infantry battalions and pooled in the new MGC. They were stripped of their Vickers, merged with the dozen or so remaining of the First Contingent, and the whole re-equipped and trained as Lewis light machine gunners. I surmise Trimingham, due to his training with a Vickers equipped unit was attached to the Machine Gun Corps serving on tanks, wearing the MGC cap badge but still wearing his 16th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (Queen's Westminsters), though it is not clear enough to be certain what the collar badges are. I neglected to mention he was a Rhodes scholar. http://www.rhodes.bm/rhreg.htm

The collar badges are not 16th London, I don’t think, and the cap insignia appears to be crossed Vickers gun barrels overlaid on a star shape, or perhaps maple leaf.  Maybe a Canadian connection?

[aodhdubh]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The collar badges are not 16th London, I don’t think, and the cap insignia appears to be crossed Vickers gun barrels overlaid on a star shape, or perhaps maple leaf.  Maybe a Canadian connection?

Not clear enough to be certain, alas. Bermuda's garrison had been part of that of Nova Scotia's until Bermuda was left out of the 1867 confederation, of course, and the CEF was garrisoning Bermuda when the 2nd BVRC Contingent was training for France, but there is no obvious reason he would have a Canadian badge. Medal cards and the Army List only show the QWR and Tank Corps.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, aodhdubh said:

Not clear enough to be certain, alas. Bermuda's garrison had been part of that of Nova Scotia's until Bermuda was left out of the 1867 confederation, of course, and the CEF was garrisoning Bermuda when the 2nd BVRC Contingent was training for France, but there is no obvious reason he would have a Canadian badge. Medal cards and the Army List only show the QWR and Tank Corps.

I’ve had another careful squint and I think you were correct that he wears a mixture of MGC cap badge and 16th London’s (QWR) collar badges.  It’s quite unusual to see that combination, but it appears that he was an early entrant to the MGC Heavy Section that subsequently became the Tank Corps, which eventually received its own discrete cap badge.  The 16th London’s officers collar badge was the portcullis surmounted by a crown.

It’s interesting that the MIC is annotated to say he was commissioned into the 5th London’s, which suggested an attachment to the 16th.  He also wears the ball buttons favoured by many rifle regiments, although in this case they do not appear to be black.  Apparently they were produced in both white metal and black for the 16th.  The former intended for certain Elcho Grey uniforms (e.g. greatcoat and ORs tunic) and the latter for khaki service dress.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

I’ve had another careful squint and I think you were correct that he wears a mixture of MGC cap badge and 16th London’s (QWR) collar badges.  It’s quite unusual to see that combination, but it appears that he was an early entrant to the MGC Heavy Section that subsequently became the Tank Corps, which eventually received its own discrete cap badge.  The 16th London’s officers collar badge was the portcullis surmounted by a crown.

It’s interesting that the MIC is annotated to say he was commissioned into the 5th London’s, which suggested an attachment to the 16th.  He also wears the ball buttons favoured by many rifle regiments, although in this case they do not appear to be black.  Apparently they were produced in both white metal and black for the 16th.  The former intended for certain Elcho Grey uniforms (e.g. greatcoat and ORs tunic) and the latter for khaki service dress.

I noted the reference to the 5th Bn., also, but wondered if 215.3.19 might be meant to be a date in 1919, indicating he was RTUd not quite to his original unit after the cessation of hostilities? This is from Oxford's roll of honour.

[FROGSMILE]

16 minutes ago, aodhdubh said:

I noted the reference to the 5th Bn., also, but wondered if 215.3.19 might be meant to be a date in 1919, indicating he was RTUd not quite to his original unit after the cessation of hostilities? This is from Oxford's roll of honour.

It clearly states he was commissioned into the 5th.  The numbers that follow are purely a documentary reference rather than a date.  He must have transferred quite early on to the 16th, as it then became his parent unit and thus appears alongside Tank Corps mentions as per convention accordingly.  The natural outcome being it recorded as still his permanent unit at the point of demobilisation.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It clearly states he was commissioned into the 5th.  The numbers that follow are purely a documentary reference rather than a date.  He must have transferred quite early on to the 16th as it clearly became his parent unit and thus appears alongside Tank Corps mentions as per convention accordingly.  The natural outcome being it recorded as still his permanent unit at the point of demobilisation.

Perhaps he enlisted into the 5th and moved to the 16th after receiving his commission?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, aodhdubh said:

Perhaps he enlisted into the 5th and moved to the 16th after receiving his commission?

No, because he’s shown on the MIC as a Private and then Corporal whilst with the 16th London’s, unless there’s been a clerical error.  The medal roll sometimes shows previous units if you can access it (although not always).  @aodhdubh Looking at the medal roll you posted above, in the remarks column it shows his unit as 2/5th London’s on 25th March 1915.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

No, because he’s shown on the MIC as a Private and then Corporal whilst with the 16th London’s, unless there’s been a clerical error.  The medal roll sometimes shows previous units if you can access it (although not always).  @aodhdubh Looking at the medal roll you posted above, in the remarks column it shows his unit as 2/5th London’s on 25th March 1915.

Ah..so it does. Thanks. I missed that entirely. I suppose the Oxford University OTC, previously the Oxford University Rifle Volunteer Corps, would not have been counted as part of his military service? It obviously does not appear on his records.

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, aodhdubh said:

Ah..so it does. Thanks. I missed that entirely. I suppose the Oxford University OTC, previously the Oxford University Rifle Volunteer Corps, would not have been counted as part of his military service? It obviously does not appear on his records.

No, it was an auxiliary and training organisation and so not formally a part of his military service unless and until mobilised by act of parliament.  He was a civilian undergoing education but with an auxiliary military commitment whilst there.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

8 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

No, it was an auxiliary and training organisation and so not formally a part of his military service unless and until mobilised by act of parliament.  He was a civilian undergoing education whilst there.

I noted that not even the University mentioned it in his service record. On attestation documents in Bermuda, at least, I've noticed they generally noted prior service in cadet corps or OTCs, though they did not count towards service. I suppose as cadet corps were meant to encourage adult enlistment, some idea that such prior service was valued must have worked to encourage youths to join cadet corps.

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, aodhdubh said:

I noted that not even the University mentioned it in his service record. On attestation documents in Bermuda, at least, I've noticed they generally noted prior service in cadet corps or OTCs, though they did not count towards service. I suppose as cadet corps were meant to encourage adult enlistment, some idea that such prior service was valued must have worked to encourage youths to join cadet corps.

The more traditional purpose of the service record was to count attributable service that reckoned towards things like promotion and beneficial terms including a military pension.  Cadets and other youth service did not count towards these and so were not accounted for.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

Another photograph of Bermudian soldiers...a bit more often reproduced. I have pondered if this is a dockface, but it seems a mite too high, and there's no obvious reason for it to be stepped. Members of the Bermuda Contingent of the Royal Garrison Artillery and other personnel.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by aodhdubh

[FROGSMILE]

54 minutes ago, aodhdubh said:

Another photograph of Bermudian soldiers...a bit more often reproduced. I have pondered if this is a dockface, but it seems a mite too high, and there's no obvious reason for it to be stepped. Members of the Bermuda Contingent of the Royal Garrison Artillery and other personnel.

Perhaps a construction and refurbishment dock in which water can go in and out.

[aodhdubh]

45 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Perhaps a construction and refurbishment dock in which water can go in and out.

That would be interesting given how many of the Bermudian servicemen left employment with the Admiralty at the Royal Naval Dockyard in Bermuda....although Bermuda, of course, is a porous limestone cap atop a volcano. Constructing a conventional dry dock had proven impractical, if not impossible, so the dockyard had been equipped with a floating dry dock since 1869, or thereabouts. Richard Smith, by example.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by aodhdubh

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, aodhdubh said:

That would be interesting given how many of the Bermudian servicemen left employment with the Admiralty at the Royal Naval Dockyard in Bermuda....although Bermuda, of course, is a porous limestone cap atop a volcano. Constructing a conventional dry dock had proven impractical, if not impossible, so the dockyard had been equipped with a floating dry dock since 1869, or thereabouts.

I think it’s a dock somewhere.  If you look at the rope at bottom right it’s fixed through a huge steel securing ring on a pivot.