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Remembered Today:

Postcards


trenchtrotter
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Early days for the 7th Bedfords. NCO's of 'C' Company at Mandora Barracks Aldershot. Major Everard Digby with his men. Digby sitting front center was from NSW in Australia. Many missing cap badges and I particularly like the tall Cpl in the flat cap.

 

Mandora Smallbones 2L 2Row.jpeg

Edited by Raster Scanning
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21 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said:

Early days for the 7th Bedfords. NCO's of 'C' Company at Mandora Barracks Aldershot. Major Everard Digby with his men. Digby sitting front center was from NSW in Australia. Many missing cap badges and I particularly like the tall Sgt in the flat cap.

 

Mandora Smallbones 2L 2Row.jpeg

Another splendid photograph, thank you for sharing it.  The officers are flanked by the CSM and CQMS, who at that time were still wearing the same badge of rank (WOII introduced in July 1915).  There’s another Colour Sergeant present in the front row, perhaps the Orderly Room Clerk, but it’s impossible to know for sure.  Most interesting to me is the instructor from the School of Musketry seated over to the right.  Unfortunately his badge of rank is obscured but given his relative youthfulness he’s probably a Staff Sergeant Instructor (SSI).

8FAAC925-5C04-4BE2-B54D-62F5CD2EFEA5.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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This came in a collection of Belgaum & Salonica postcards. It was printed in Belgaum.

The man seated middle front row with sock marked, is described as “my dancing partner”. His wide belt has INDIA on it.

One pcd. is of RMS Royal George with note: “Embarked at Kantara, Egypt, Sat. Dec. 14th. 1918. Disembarked Dec. 19th. 1918 at Salonica. Other postcards are of BELGAUM & SALONICA. Some are addressed to daughter Doreen.

 

Doreen Dad Rough and Ready photo Belgaum1.jpg

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1 hour ago, Kath said:

This came in a collection of Belgaum & Salonica postcards. It was printed in Belgaum.

The man seated middle front row with sock marked, is described as “my dancing partner”. His wide belt has INDIA on it.

One pcd. is of RMS Royal George with note: “Embarked at Kantara, Egypt, Sat. Dec. 14th. 1918. Disembarked Dec. 19th. 1918 at Salonica. Other postcards are of BELGAUM & SALONICA. Some are addressed to daughter Doreen.

 

Doreen Dad Rough and Ready photo Belgaum1.jpg

A super photograph Kath, with a couple of big but barely discernible clues to regimental ID. First and foremost is the cloth pagris flash on their Wolseley helmets, which appears to be a light shade with a dark central vertical line.  The second clue is that where the field service caps are being worn sideways and tipped back on the head by two men we can see the baseline of the cap badge.  This appears to be quite wide and so indicating a wide badge.  One of the wider badges is that of the Prince of Wales’s Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment), but that’s just my initial impression.  Another might be the Manchester Regiment with their wide coat of arms badge.  Comparison of regimental ribbons will help to give corroborating evidence.  I wonder if @Mike_Hcan help, I recall that he had a reference booklet from the Heraldry Society (Waring Pamphlet)?  The best reference work for this subject is The Wolseley Helmet in Pictures by Stuart Bates and Peter Sucieu.

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Hello there

Could these chaps be members of the 2nd Batt, Nofolk Regt? They wore a yellow rectangle patch with a thin black strip, very similar to that seen here.

Here s a crop from a photo of a soldier of this battalion, showing the patch.

Willaim

2nd Batt, Norfolk Regt, India,.jpg

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17 minutes ago, Kath said:

Cap Badge

image.png.c03cf2faa758aa78dcf7a80456959959.png

Helmet 

image.png.610d2d3c2620d5b3267fbe0e6b340f57.png

Brilliant Kath, you’ve cracked it.  I’d completely forgotten that the Norfolks wore a different and much larger cap badge back then, enclosing their iconic Britannia in a Laurel wreath.  The lengthy title scroll, when looked at from the bottom, gave the wide impression apparent in your photo.

47B4CCC2-4F44-4D65-A0E7-ADA9A70BAF66.jpeg

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44 minutes ago, caladonia said:

Hello there

Could these chaps be members of the 2nd Batt, Nofolk Regt? They wore a yellow rectangle patch with a thin black strip, very similar to that seen here.

Here s a crop from a photo of a soldier of this battalion, showing the patch.

Willaim

2nd Batt, Norfolk Regt, India,.jpg

Well done William that’s an excellent spot.  I think you have correctly identified the unit.

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Thank you both, very smart, posters!

Now to find out about the Royal George's trip from Kantara to Salonica..

Edited by Kath
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A37DCF3C-890C-493C-9C83-37C07970E05A.jpeg.9cc7c6696a391a2de55f977ae5c12bd3.jpeg
 

This photograph of a surviving Wolseley helmet from the Norfolk Regiment Museum.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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12 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Another splendid photograph, thank you for sharing it.  The officers are flanked by the CSM and CQMS, who at that time were still wearing the same badge of rank (WOII introduced in July 1915).  There’s another Colour Sergeant present in the front row, perhaps the Orderly Room Clerk, but it’s impossible to know for sure.  Most interesting to me is the instructor from the School of Musketry seated over to the right.  Unfortunately his badge of rank is obscured but given his relative youthfulness he’s probably a Staff Sergeant Instructor (SSI).

8FAAC925-5C04-4BE2-B54D-62F5CD2EFEA5.jpeg

Thanks very much.

His rank/name was S.M. Instructor, Butler. Here he is again in a named group photo.

img351 copy.jpg

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3 hours ago, Raster Scanning said:

Thanks very much.

His rank/name was S.M. Instructor, Butler. Here he is again in a named group photo.

img351 copy.jpg

Thank you Raster, he is older than he looks and I remember seeing him in one of your earlier photos now.  I can just make out rank stripes on his upper arm and recall commenting previously that he’s fashioned his own cap insignia from a separate rank crown, and SAA crossed rifles badges.

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On 16/10/2022 at 17:51, Raster Scanning said:

Here is one by Scovell

33637120_2107727982828740_2625782811084193792_n.jpg

And here many of the same men are 6 months later, just before they went to France - http://bedfordregiment.org.uk/6thbn/6thbtnphotos2.html - less pride on their stripes on the whole and more relaxed in their own skin after months of basic was behind them. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

And here many of the same men are 6 months later, just before they went to France - http://bedfordregiment.org.uk/6thbn/6thbtnphotos2.html - less pride on their stripes on the whole and more relaxed in their own skin after months of basic was behind them. 

 

 

Yes I agree.  That is most likely the CSM with the ball ended stick, and CQMS (rather typically) with pipe.

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Bought this card which was advertised on the worlds most popular internet auction site as  West Yorkshire Regiment group, however think that the cap badge is actually Northamptonshire Yeomanry. Close ups show some interesting sleeve insignia ...Trumpeter and shoesmith/farrier? Any thoughts on N.hampton Yeo. and insignia.

 

The rear of the card shows list of names which I presume are the men on the front of the card. If anyone has a particular interest in them can post

 

Can't see any chevrons or stripes indicating war service so may be early in the war or even pre-war

 

northamptonshire yeomanrt.jpg

northamptonshire yeomanry close up.png

northamptonshire yeomanry close up 2.png

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On 26/10/2022 at 17:23, ilkley remembers said:

Bought this card which was advertised on the worlds most popular internet auction site as  West Yorkshire Regiment group, however think that the cap badge is actually Northamptonshire Yeomanry. Close ups show some interesting sleeve insignia ...Trumpeter and shoesmith/farrier? Any thoughts on N.hampton Yeo. and insignia.

 

The rear of the card shows list of names which I presume are the men on the front of the card. If anyone has a particular interest in them can post

 

Can't see any chevrons or stripes indicating war service so may be early in the war or even pre-war

 

northamptonshire yeomanrt.jpg

northamptonshire yeomanry close up.png

northamptonshire yeomanry close up 2.png

Yes you’re bang on correct, they are Northamptonshire Yeomanry.  Trumpeters and farriers badges plus collar badges, as well as cap badge refer.

783AEC90-706E-419E-9A47-699B3412EE4A.jpeg

 

9D871F14-1EF5-464A-8866-0DE9F264B25D.jpeg

 

3FBCB3DD-889B-476C-96B9-E340CD2E515B.jpeg

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Just now, FROGSMILE said:

Yes you’re bang on correct, they are Northamptonshire Yeomanry.  Trumpeters badge and collar badges as well as cap badge refer.

Thank you, always good to have confirmation The West Yorkshire horse is different but I suppose some may confuse it with the Northampton steed.

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33 minutes ago, ilkley remembers said:

Thank you, always good to have confirmation The West Yorkshire horse is different but I suppose some may confuse it with the Northampton steed.

Yes most horse insignia is specifically related to the Royal House of Hanover, for whom the white horse was their primary device of recognition (and commonly worn as insignia), but I don’t know if that has any relationship to the horse favoured by the Northamptonshire Yeomanry.  The Regency period involved the rather corpulent Prince of Wales (and later King) touring around Britain and as he went from county to county, and crossing the borders between them, their respective Yeomanry frequently vied with each other to meet, pay homage, and provide him with a blinged up escort.  He often repaid the displays of devotion with special honours.  As a regiment the Northamptonshire Yeomanry’s final full dress uniform styled them as Dragoons (heavy cavalry). 

E398E2F5-6B41-467B-A0A8-07B4678C2E5F.jpeg

539681BA-0FFC-47F4-B9B6-1073EAE3D411.jpeg

5E1D4169-CB4C-4164-A1E1-E5A1DFB93674.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes most horse insignia is specifically related to the Royal House of Hanover, for which it was their primary device of recognition, b

In heraldry it was traditionally the symbol of Intellect, speed and virility. Not sure which of the Hanoverians monarchs would have fitted the bill for all three attributes.

 

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13 minutes ago, ilkley remembers said:

In heraldry it was traditionally the symbol of Intellect, speed and virility. Not sure which of the Hanoverians monarchs would have fitted the bill for all three attributes.

 

Well they get a bad press for a variety of misfortunes and misjudgements, but on a more favourable note they do include in their number the last British monarch to personally lead a British Army into battle.  Perhaps they can be better remembered for that.

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The state of Lower-Saxony (Niedersachsen) in today´s FRG with its capital Hannover, the successor of the Prussian province of Hannover which was itself the successor (by and large) of the main body of land of the Kingdom of Hannover still has the white horse on red ground as its crest.

GreyC

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5 hours ago, GreyC said:

The state of Lower-Saxony (Niedersachsen) in today´s FRG with its capital Hannover, the successor of the Prussian province of Hannover which was itself the successor (by and large) of the main body of land of the Kingdom of Hannover still has the white horse on red ground as its crest.

GreyC

Thank you GreyC, I think I can remember seeing the crest as a road sign when crossing boundaries into that area.  I notice that the horse is used by Westphalia too.

0DDC5516-7876-4ED2-973E-01613DE237E5.png

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I wonder if the white horse emblem was used by any regiments of the German Imperial Army during WW1?

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4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 I notice that the horse is used by Westphalia too.

Both stem from Saxon origin. In that they are "cousins" to the horse featured in the crest of Kent. Do note: to distinguish Hannover and Westfalen crest: tail of Hannover horse down, Werstfalen up. I know of no regiment during WW1 that had a regimental crest eith reference to the white horse. WW2 different story.

GreyC

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2 hours ago, GreyC said:

Both stem from Saxon origin. In that they are "cousins" to the horse featured in the crest of Kent. Do note: to distinguish Hannover and Westfalen crest: tail of Hannover horse down, Werstfalen up. I know of no regiment during WW1 that had a regimental crest eith reference to the white horse. WW2 different story.

GreyC

The Saxon connection is fascinating and epitomises the common link from the so-called Dark Ages. As well as the white horse connection with various Kent regiments, the white horse was also awarded to the King’s (Liverpool) Regiment, the West Yorkshire Regiment and the 3rd (King’s Own) Hussars.  All were the result of favour from the Hanoverian King’s of the U.K.

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