Postcards

[GWF1967]

"Ian with the Australians 1916 or 1917." Gordon Highlanders.

[GWF1967]

On 17/09/2022 at 10:45, kenf48 said:

 Stephen Charles Horder - enlisted in the 1/5 Queen's 1910 and re-enlisted for one year in July 1914

I wonder if that is him in front of his section (?)

 

Looking at his photograph on a family tree on Ancestry, I'd say the man sitting right hand front, next to the regimental sign in picture 2

[kenf48]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

I'd say the man sitting right hand front, next to the regimental sign in picture 2

Very much so!

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Looking at his photograph on a family tree on Ancestry, I'd say the man sitting right hand front, next to the regimental sign in picture 2

This reenactment group show how the 4th Queen’s full dress looked when they were the 1st Volunteer Battalion pre-1908 and makes clear the origin of the black insignia.

Edited 18 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

 

General Service Cap Badge, V. Lincs shoulder title.  Photograph by Welchman & Brown, Silver St. Gainsborough.

[FROGSMILE]

55 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

 

General Service Cap Badge, V. Lincs shoulder title.  Photograph by Welchman & Brown, Silver St. Gainsborough.

He’s a member of the newly resurrected Volunteer Force (VF).  The VF were renamed from the Volunteer Training Corps (VTC) and initially issued with the GS cap badge when authorised and funded by the War Office (the VTC had technically been a civilian organisation).  Once the units had been accepted most subsequently adopted the cap insignia of the regular regiments to which they were aligned upon acceptance by the WO, but the Armistice was declared before this could be fully carried out and some units never received their new insignia.  Your photo clearly shows an auxiliary soldier of the Lincolnshire Volunteer Regiment.

Edited 18 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[themonsstar]

The Manchester Territorials postcard is possible from 1908 and the move from Volunteer Battalions to Territorial Battalions, the cap badge on the soldier on the right of the postcard looks to be wearing the old Volunteer cap badge.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, themonsstar said:

The Manchester Territorials postcard is possible from 1908 and the move from Volunteer Battalions to Territorial Battalions, the cap badge on the soldier on the right of the postcard looks to be wearing the old Volunteer cap badge.

Very well spotted. I agree.  The Manchester’s were not a popular regiment for high society, but they established a significant number of their battalions from young men in the city and its surrounds.  There was rather a lot of sneering that their cap badge at that time was almost identical to that of the Manchester Tramways Corporation, but nonetheless they formed 5 volunteer battalions whose headdress insignia were very similar apart from the number on the oval plate at the bottom.

Edited 19 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Raster Scanning]

As it states. A company of men of the 2/4th Norfolk Regiment march past Sandy Town Hall, Bedfordshire, April 29th 1915. The 2/4th were a second line unit that did not serve abroad. Their little mascot, Roy Henry Edwin Kemp, is just five years old. Kemp emigrated to Australia in 1929 and served in the Royal Australian Air Force in WW2. His parents, Henry and Minnie Kemp had a Hairdresser and Tobacconist shop in The High Street, Sandy.

[PRC]

3 hours ago, Raster Scanning said:

A company of men of the 2/4th Norfolk Regiment march past Sandy Town Hall, Bedfordshire, April 29th 1915. The 2/4th were a second line unit that did not serve abroad.

Believe it reads No.5 Supernumerary Company - so likely made up of older men fit for home service only. The age side seems to be borne out by the faces on view. The few individuals I've had cause to research were either moved over to the Royal Defence Corps when that formed, or were released to Army Reserve W so they could resume their normal line of work.

Thanks for posting,
Peter

[Raster Scanning]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Believe it reads No.5 Supernumerary Company - so likely made up of older men fit for home service only. The age side seems to be borne out by the faces on view. The few individuals I've had cause to research were either moved over to the Royal Defence Corps when that formed, or were released to Army Reserve W so they could resume their normal line of work.

Thanks for posting,
Peter

Hi Peter.

My pleasure to post. I basically was a bit lazy and cut and pasted the caption from my "Military Bedfordshire" FB page. The captions on there are not so detailed, as many of the people who follow are not so interested in the details as they are here. I appreciate your additional comments.

[Raster Scanning]

7468 Company Sergeant Major, Samuel Armstrong DCM (seated), was a regular in the army pre war . He served in the 1st, 8th , 7th and 2nd Battalions during WW1. His Distinguished Conduct Medal was announced in the New Years Honours 1917. He was from Thurleigh, Bedfordshire.

[FROGSMILE]

27 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said:

7468 Company Sergeant Major, Samuel Armstrong DCM (seated), was a regular in the army pre war . He served in the 1st, 8th , 7th and 2nd Battalions during WW1. His Distinguished Conduct Medal was announced in the New Years Honours 1917. He was from Thurleigh, Bedfordshire.

The photo shows him as a warrant officer class 1 (RSM) and the overseas service stripes and a medal ribbon suggests a photo taken 1917-1918.  He also, unusually for that time, wears regimental collar badges.  A fine photo, thank you for posting it.

Edited 20 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Raster Scanning]

'A' Company 7th (S) Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment, Codford, prior to departure for France July 1915.

Back row 14th from left is Pte Christopher Cox  who went on to be awarded a VC in 1917. Sitting middle front (with cane) is Arthur E Percival who in WW2 became infamous for surrendering Singapore to the Japanese. Next to him (on left as we view) is 3/7996 CSM Albert Pearce

[aodhdubh]

[GWF1967]

Royal Artillery Officer Cadets.

Driver, Royal Field Artillery. 

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Artillery Officer Cadets.

Driver, Royal Field Artillery. 

The suit of white overalls is associated with the Royal Garrison Artillery and commonly seen on their personnel undergoing training even before the war.  Is there any clue to location on the back of the card?  The hutment behind suggests perhaps No2, or No3 Officer Cadet School at Bournemouth and Weymouth, respectively.

Edited 23 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:Is there any clue to location on the back of the card? 

Unfortunately not. 

[charlie962]

The younger man seated 2nd from right has a bronze cap badge. All the others in overalls have brass/ gilt. What does this tell us?

[FROGSMILE]

30 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

The younger man seated 2nd from right has a bronze cap badge. All the others in overalls have brass/ gilt. What does this tell us?

He’s wearing the correct OSDB badge for wear with officer pattern service dress.  I imagine he’s transferring over from another part of the RA and having to do a specific module of the RGA course.  A course add on.  The other cadets are still wearing OR cap badges.

NB.  The picture below shows RHA officer cadets and instructions staff.

Edited 23 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

This (previously posted) card shows Royal Field Artillery Officer Cadets in training at Larkhill. The group includes 2/Lt. later A/Capt.  Josiah Dean M.C. - Commissioned 2/Lt. West Lancashire Brigade, R.F.A. 25/11/1916.  Served overseas with 55th W/Lancs Division, Jan.1917. Gassed, May + June 1917.  Military Cross awarded for actions in the defence of Givenchy, 9/4/1918 - (L.G. 16/9/1918)

[FROGSMILE]

52 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

This (previously posted) card shows Royal Field Artillery Officer Cadets in training at Larkhill. The group includes 2/Lt. later A/Capt.  Josiah Dean M.C. - Commissioned 2/Lt. West Lancashire Brigade, R.F.A. 25/11/1916.  Served overseas with 55th W/Lancs Division, Jan.1917. Gassed, May + June 1917.  Military Cross awarded for actions in the defence of Givenchy, 9/4/1918 - (L.G. 16/9/1918)

I’ve always wondered if the white suits were used by other branches of the RA because all the images I’d seen had been of coastal, or other large garrison guns, so it’s interesting to see that image, thank you.  The white suits seem to have been common wear during both, gun drills and gun maintenance, which the officers had to undergo so that they had practical experience of what was required of their men.  Presumably they were to protect their service dress uniforms from gun oil, grease and other residues.  Perhaps the paucity of images outside of the RGA was just a coincidence.

Edited 23 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

13 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I’ve always wondered if the white suits were used by other branches of the RA because all the images I’d seen had been of coastal, or other large garrison guns, so it’s interesting to see that image, thank you.  The white suits seem to have been common wear during both, gun drills and gun maintenance, which the officers had to undergo so that they had practical experience of what was required of their men.  Presumably they were to protect their service dress uniforms from gun oil, grease and other residues.  Perhaps the paucity of images outside of the RGA was just a coincidence.

Not shown are the shoes worn in coastal batteries to avoid sparks, though perhaps they had stopped wearing those by that point.

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, aodhdubh said:

Not shown are the shoes worn in coastal batteries to avoid sparks, though perhaps they had stopped wearing those by that point.

Yes, I’ve read of them in several iterations of clothing regulations, but never seen any.  I imagine that they might be like bootees.  They were apparently made of heavy duty Fustian (later called moleskin), but were originally made from thick felted wool (like Norwegian slippers).  

Edited 24 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

On 27/08/2022 at 18:45, ianjonesncl said:

The Bermuda Contingent RGA moved from France to England in April 1919, returning to Bermuda 11th July 1919.

They were therefore in the UK on Empire Day, May 24th 1919, pending repatriation.

A comparison of a BCRGA Officers / Sergeants photograph taken in the UK and the Repatriation Camp photograph would seem to show the BCRGA Sergeants.

I hope I have identified the men correctly. Sharper eyed Pals maybe able to confirm.

I wrote something on the identities of those as shown on the ex-Bermuda Police Service website a year or so ago...I do not recall if that was in this forum or elsewhere...I'll dig it up and copy it here. I had also compared the faces to those in this photograph of Bermuda Militia Artillery warrant officers and sergeants before the war (dated 1909 or 1912, depending on the source). The only person I am reasonably certain is in all of these photographs is the one numbered 3 above, whom the police identified as Sergeant Sheridon H. Ryan (1060 Sergeant Sheridan Hilgrove Ryan), who looks to be standing, second from the right of frame of this photograph. I suspect he has not been identified correctly, or else the 1909-1912 date for this photograph is well off. Ryan's 9th of February, 1916, attestation as a temporary regular (with the rank of Gunner...appointed Lance-Bombadier, acting Bombadier, on 26th of December, 1916...a 9 May, 1918, record shows him as a Bombadier. An undated statement of service records "promoted Sergeant") shows a lengthy break in service as it records his previous service as 1900-1905. Possibly the photograph dates from that period, but he would not have been a sergeant when discharged in 1905. That requires either that the Sergeant in the 1909-1912 photograph is not the same person shown in the other two photographs, in which case the person in the other two photographs could be Ryan, or if it is the same person in all three photographs, then he must have been misidentified as Ryan.

 

On the subject of the photograph from the ex-Bermuda Police Service website (http://expobermuda.com/~bermyxpo/index.php/lia/903-the-brave-blue-line-) with the names captioned, it has been artificially coloured, of course. This reminds me of watching "Edwardian Britain in Colour", I think it was (https://www.channel5.com/show/edwardian-britain-in-colour), and being unable not to notice that khaki uniforms were consistently coloured green. I wondered how they could make such an error. More recently I realised they must have coloured each frame using software, and no human was involved in choosing the colour of a garment. I tried similar software on a free trial on the My Heritage website and it rarely applied the correct colour to British khaki serge or cotton khaki drills. The former usually made green or blue, and the latter usually a tie-dye of sand and red, and some blue. I have been slowly redoing all of the images I tried "manually" with Photoshop.

Edited 24 September , 2022 by aodhdubh