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Remembered Today:

Postcards


trenchtrotter
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Very interesting. The importance of horses and horsemanship in Hannover can be deduced from this: after the Prussians annexed the Kingdom of Hannover and made it a Prussian Province (in contrast to Bavaria or Saxony, who were treated more lenient by victorious Prussia after 1866 and kept their status as Kingdom), the Prussian incorporated the Hannoveranian units into their army. And although the Prussians had a famous tradition with horses like the Trakehner from East Prussia, the Prussian military riding institut was resituated from Schwedt/Oder to Hannover because of the enormous wealth of knowledge about horses and the numbers of good horses (Hannoveraner)available in that area. Under a different name (Kavallerie-Schule) the institut continued to train cavalry personnel after 1918 until 1935. In the 1936 Olympic games all six possible gold medals for riding were awarded to riders of that school.

GreyC

Edited by GreyC
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6 hours ago, GreyC said:

Both stem from Saxon origin. In that they are "cousins" to the horse featured in the crest of Kent. Do note: to distinguish Hannover and Westfalen crest: tail of Hannover horse down, Werstfalen up. I know of no regiment during WW1 that had a regimental crest eith reference to the white horse. WW2 different story.

GreyC

The relationship is a long-standing one! See, for example, Hengist (Old English hengest = stallion; Old High German hengst = stallion) and Horsa (OE hors = horse; OHG hros = horse), the brothers of the Anglo-Saxon foundation myth. 

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2 hours ago, GreyC said:

Very interesting. The importance of horses and horsemanship in Hannover can be deduced from this: after the Prussians annexed the Kingdom of Hannover and made it a Prussian Province (in contrast to Bavaria or Saxony, who were treated more lenient by victorious Prussia after 1866 and kept their status as Kingdom), the Prussian incorporated the Hannoveranian units into their army. And although the Prussians had a famous tradition with horses like the Trakehner from East Prussia, the Prussian military riding institut was resituated from Schwedt/Oder to Hannover because of the enormous wealth of knowledge about horses and the numbers of good horses (Hannoveraner)available in that area. Under a different name (Kavallerie-Schule) the institut continued to train cavalry personell after 1918 until 1935. In the 1936 Olympic games all six possible gold medals for riding were awarded to riders of that school.

GreyC

Thank you for explaining the importance set on horsemanship by Hannover and Prussia, it’s of particular interest to me because I was based for 6-years in what had once been Britain’s cavalry school in Wiltshire, England.  It had been set up by a senior British cavalry officer, Baden-Powell (subsequently originator of the Boy Scout Movement) who felt that British cavalry had performed sub par in the 2nd Boer War (1899-1902). He also began the formal training of military Scouting (reconnaissance) skills for both cavalry and infantry.  By German standards the British school was minuscule, but it inspired and instilled a far greater degree of professionalism in sufficient time to prepare for WW1.

Interestingly this had all been an old lesson relearned, as the principal Victor of the 1815 battle at Waterloo (albeit with crucial support from Blucher), the Duke of Wellington, did not rate British cavalry, much preferring the professionally trained mounted arm of the King’s German Legion (Hanoverians) for duties of scouting, skirmishing and outposts.  He felt that British cavalry regiments were fixated on headlong (but undoubtedly gallant) charging, to the detriment of their other duties.  In essence the Hanoverians were considered by him the exemplars in the sometimes boring, but utterly essential disciplines of cavalry tactics and procedures.  It’s one of the fickle fates of fortune that almost exactly a century later, Hanoverian trained cavalry were for a time at least, in conflict with the now better trained than previously British cavalry, on the same fields of the European continent. 

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F6D4B010-4AB8-4940-95BC-6E63E2C7818E.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Two cards that belonged to and probably include Pte. A W Goodege, 13706, 7th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment.

The first shows them in 1914 while still in tents at Aldershot. The second shows cooks in Spring 1915 at Codford. Goodege was killed when a shell hit the battalion cook house 19-7-1916.

 

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s-l1600-4.jpg

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Although there's a tendency to identify Germans in the ancient world with seaborne raiders, fighting as infantry after landing from longboats, there was a tradition of fighting mounted which predates that period and the age of migration (before which, many of the tribes later associated with what is now the BRD, as well as parts of the low countries, modern France, Italy, et cet. were in Scandinavia) , which may be the source of the prevalence of the horse as an image in northern Germany...it is not just a symbol in heraldry...you'll find horseheads as architectural features on roofs, by example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice_of_Lake_Vänern

 

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21 hours ago, Raster Scanning said:

Two cards that belonged to and probably include Pte. A W Goodege, 13706, 7th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment.

The first shows them in 1914 while still in tents at Aldershot. The second shows cooks in Spring 1915 at Codford. Goodege was killed when a shell hit the battalion cook house 19-7-1916.

 

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Cooks???. Blimey, the bloke on the far right looks as though he's just carried out the full overhaul and servicing of a traction engine!!!.        Pete.

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On 28/10/2022 at 20:42, Raster Scanning said:

Two cards that belonged to and probably include Pte. A W Goodege, 13706, 7th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment.

The first shows them in 1914 while still in tents at Aldershot. The second shows cooks in Spring 1915 at Codford. Goodege was killed when a shell hit the battalion cook house 19-7-1916.

 

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s-l1600-4.jpg

Evocative photos with excellent resolution to reveal details.  The thing that strikes me the most about the scene is the maturity of the men.  It’s like a whole working community between the ages 25 and 35 in uniform.  It also epitomises the shortage of insignia and modern uniform at the time, with the men reduced to wearing forage caps and scarlet frocks that have almost certainly come from the regimental depot and that before the war were used by soldiers walking-out from barracks.  Depressingly, I’m 100% positive that if the U.K. were mobilised on the same scale as WW1 now, because of an escalation in the Ukraine situation, the exact same shortage would occur again.  Think NHS PPE scandal, but on steroids.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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9 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

Cooks???. Blimey, the bloke on the far right looks as though he's just carried out the full overhaul and servicing of a traction engine!!!.        Pete.

Not a hair net in sight haha

 

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8 hours ago, Raster Scanning said:

Not a hair net in sight haha

 

 

What amazed me was their hands, those that are visible! When was the last time they actually washed them?

Edited by RNCVR
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4 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

 

What amazed me was their hands, those that are visible! When was the last time they actually washed them?

I was wondering what was the purpose of the heavy looking gloves on the man seated centrally on the ground.  Perhaps protection for an oven but they look quite incongruous in that setting, unless he’d just been called over directly from his oven to appear in the photo.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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There’s a pair of shovels on the floor in front of the chap with gloves. Indicative of an open fire or coal oven of some sort?  And perhaps the two gents with ties/cravats standing left are mess waiters of some sort…..

58 DM.

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42 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I was wondering what was the purpose of the heavy looking gloves on the man seated centrally on the ground.  Perhaps protection for an oven but they look quite incongruous in that setting, unless he’d just been called over directly from his oven to appear in the photo.

A butcher perhaps?

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27 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

A butcher perhaps?

I thought it might be a butcher behind him stood over a block (in table form) brandishing a carving knife and steel (sharpener), but I’m not aware of butchers wearing protective gloves.

30 minutes ago, 58 Div Mule said:

There’s a pair of shovels on the floor in front of the chap with gloves. Indicative of an open fire or coal oven of some sort?  And perhaps the two gents with ties/cravats standing left are mess waiters of some sort…..

58 DM.

Yes I suppose an oven might fit the bill but all speculative of course.

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1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

I thought it might be a butcher behind him stood over a block (in table form) brandishing a carving knife and steel (sharpener), but I’m not aware of butchers wearing protective gloves.

 

You're right, I think: I started an apprenticeship as a butcher when I left school back in the early 80s, and gloves were never worn as they weaken the grip on the knife handle and thus risk accidents. Same when I came to work in the countryside e.g. hedgelaying and billhooks, axes, etc. (chainsaws, being an altogether more capricious tool, are an exception to this rule as you need the protection!)

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1 hour ago, Pat Atkins said:

You're right, I think: I started an apprenticeship as a butcher when I left school back in the early 80s, and gloves were never worn as they weaken the grip on the knife handle and thus risk accidents. Same when I came to work in the countryside e.g. hedgelaying and billhooks, axes, etc. (chainsaws, being an altogether more capricious tool, are an exception to this rule as you need the protection!)

Butchers and slaughter-men now often wear a chainmail glove on the non knife hand. 

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Interesting - don't recall those from back in the day, but it seems a reasonable precaution! I saw a couple of really nasty accidents in the less-than-a-year it took me to fail as an apprentice.

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7 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

Interesting - don't recall those from back in the day, but it seems a reasonable precaution! I saw a couple of really nasty accidents in the less-than-a-year it took me to fail as an apprentice.

The thing with a boning knife is, it does exactly what it says on the tin. 
 

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1 minute ago, GWF1967 said:

The thing with a boning knife is, it does exactly what it says on the tin. 
 

:D

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Times have changed I think.  My maternal grandfather established a large butcher’s shop in Camberwell (one of few family members not a soldier, although he joined a VB), that as a boy I visited regularly in the 1960s. Not one of the staff ever wore gloves as I watched them chop and fillet.  It’s all to do with modern health and safety at work regulations I suspect.

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"615 Coy M.T. R.A.S.C. "

Front row right, has overseas service stripes, but no medal ribbons, the man to his left has medal ribbons and wound stripes, but no o/s stripes. 

615 Coy ASC.jpg

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47 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

"615 Coy M.T. R.A.S.C. "

Front row right, has overseas service stripes, but no medal ribbons, the man to his left has medal ribbons and wound stripes, but no o/s stripes. 

615 Coy ASC.jpg

The man front row far right is wearing the ribbon of the BWM.       Pete.

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16 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I was wondering what was the purpose of the heavy looking gloves on the man seated centrally on the ground.  Perhaps protection for an oven but they look quite incongruous in that setting, unless he’d just been called over directly from his oven to appear in the photo.

On my part I was speculating a little on this picture. The picture came with the collection of Pte. Goodege who was a Cook (or at least worked in the cookhouse). He was mortally wounded when the battalion cookhouse was shelled in 1916. I also noted the man with the carving knife and steel, the man with the skillet and another with the draining ladle and the chopping table, along with the cutlery and crockery. I thought the gloves were for when they were removing hot pans off the cooker?

I have some questions.

Does anyone recognize what the man seated second left is holding?

At least one man is wearing civilian clothes (this was taken long after the battalion had uniform shortages) Mess waiter as has been suggested?

 

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Looks like a rolling pin, or the roller  for the old type of roller towel, the end fitted in a hole on one end and a slot on the other. 

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2 hours ago, bigjohn said:

Looks like a rolling pin, or the roller  for the old type of roller towel, the end fitted in a hole on one end and a slot on the other. 

I wondered about a rolling pin but thought making pastry was maybe a bit too fancy. 

 

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