Postcards

[Jerry B]

unform insignia close ups

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, Jerry B said:

unform insignia close ups

Super photos Jerry, thank you for posting them.  They are wearing a type of scarlet frock not seen on regulars, with very squared off chest pocket flaps.  These seem to have become popular at home (i.e. in Britain) around the time of the 2nd Anglo/Boer War, as they were a lot cheaper than full dress.  They would have been funded by the County’s Territorial Association.  That period immediately after the war was very transitional with lots of different uniforms adopted by the auxiliaries, especially the yeomanry, before they eventually accepted and settled down to the use of universal drab service dress the same as the regulars.

Edited 1 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Raster Scanning]

On 29/10/2022 at 01:42, Raster Scanning said:

Two cards that belonged to and probably include Pte. A W Goodege, 13706, 7th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment.

The first shows them in 1914 while still in tents at Aldershot. The second shows cooks in Spring 1915 at Codford. Goodege was killed when a shell hit the battalion cook house 19-7-1916.

 

With regard to the top picture I have been contacted by someone who has a copy of same and identifies the man (boy) 3rd right back row as a relative, Seth Gammons from Beeston in Bedfordshire. Seth was KIA with the 2nd Londons as Private 233511, previously 4609 5th Beds. Initially I thought they were wrong and had misidentified his brother Herbert who also served in the 7th Battalion. Then I came up with what I think is a plausible hypothesis. In 1911 Seth was 13 years old. So here he is 16 (and he looks it). I suggest he was transferred out of the 7th Battalion to serve in the 3/5th Bedfords on home service while underage. Once old enough he transferred to France and joined the London Territorials. He was killed in action 26-10-1917. His entry in the NRGW mentions he joined up in 1914 and was retained in UK until drafted to France in 1916 (when he would have been 18).

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said:

With regard to the top picture I have been contacted by someone who has a copy of same and identifies the man (boy) 3rd right back row as a relative, Seth Gammons from Beeston in Bedfordshire. Seth was KIA with the 2nd Londons as Private 233511, previously 4609 5th Beds. Initially I thought they were wrong and had misidentified his brother Herbert who also served in the 7th Battalion. Then I came up with what I think is a plausible hypothesis. In 1911 Seth was 13 years old. So here he is 16 (and he looks it). I suggest he was transferred out of the 7th Battalion to serve in the 3/5th Bedfords on home service while underage. Once old enough he transferred to France and joined the London Territorials. He was killed in action 26-10-1917. His entry in the NRGW mentions he joined up in 1914 and was retained in UK until drafted to France in 1916 (when he would have been 18).

That all sounds entirely feasible.  Forum members such as @kenf48and @PRCmight be able to put some flesh on your hypothesis.

[Ron da Valli]

Earlier this year I bought, separately, 2 postcards of the same man in a sanitats battalion. Recently I saw a group photo & the man sitting in the right hand window looked like him so I bought it. When it arrived I compared the writing on the back & found that the name & address was the same for all 3.

[GreyC]

They wear the typical cap for Krankenträger. By the way there were no Sanitätsbsataillone in the German Artmy during WW1. Only Kompanien. At the end of the war 314 of them. Could you post the backsides of the cards?

GreyC

[Ron da Valli]

54 minutes ago, GreyC said:

They wear the typical cap for Krankenträger. By the way there were no Sanitätsbsataillone in the German Artmy during WW1. Only Kompanien. At the end of the war 314 of them. Could you post the backsides of the cards?

GreyC

Here you go. I assumed the S B stood for Sanitats Bataaillone. The point was the 3 postcards are of the same soldier.

Edited 1 November , 2022 by Ron da Valli

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Ron da Valli said:

Here you go. I assumed the S B stood for Sanitats Bataaillone. The point was the 3 postcards are of the same soldier.

Ron, I imagine that one of the German speakers would try to translate the writing for you if you post better views of the back.

Edited 1 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[GreyC]

SB=Soldatenbrief (letter by soldier) which means the rules of army postal service delivery apply. The unit is Sanitätskompanie 3 of 18th Inf. Div.

GreyC

 

[Ron da Valli]

1 minute ago, GreyC said:

SB=Soldatenbrief (letter by soldier) which means the rules of army postal service delivery apply. The unit is Sanitätskompanie 3 of 18th Inf. Div.

GreyC

 

Thanks for the extra details  GreyC.  

[GreyC]

Pleasure :-)

GreyC

[charlie2]

On the reverse of the second card is a note that the sender and presumably the soldier in the photo is „Käthe‘s father Paul Fiegler“

Charlie

[GROBBY]

From October 1915 until June 1916 the 18th Division was in the Champagne district in the Souain area

[Ron da Valli]

5 hours ago, charlie2 said:

On the reverse of the second card is a note that the sender and presumably the soldier in the photo is „Käthe‘s father Paul Fiegler“

Charlie

Thanks very much for the information Charlie.

1 hour ago, GROBBY said:

From October 1915 until June 1916 the 18th Division was in the Champagne district in the Souain area

Thanks for the information Grobby.

[GWF1967]

Gnr. Edward John Fereday. 73855 

France. 16/8/1914.  - 56 Battery, 44th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery.

[GWF1967]

On 31/10/2022 at 00:12, CorporalPunishment said:

The man front row far right is wearing the ribbon of the BWM.       Pete.

Good spot. It's harder to make out on the original card.

[GWF1967]

"Yours as usual, Stanley"   He wears a shoulder title of a Territorial Battalion of The Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Unfortunately, I can't make out which. 

Photo by - Pollard Graham & Co. Branches everywhere. 

Edited 2 November , 2022 by GWF1967

[Jerry B]

19 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

"Yours as usual, Stanley"   He wears a shoulder title of a Territorial Battalion of The Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Unfortunately, I can't make out which. 

Photo by - Pollard Graham & Co. Branches everywhere. 

Stunningly detailed card.  I would say T4, but only uncertainly 

Edited 2 November , 2022 by Jerry B

[GWF1967]

3 minutes ago, Jerry B said:

Stunningly detailed card.  I would say T4, but only vaguely 

I thought T4 as well. 

 

Posted from Bridgend, 5th May,1917.  "Fondest Love, Maff"  

Royal Welsh Fusiliers. 

 

[GWF1967]

Royal Engineers Signallers with blue and white armbands sewn to the jacket sleeves, then rank stripes sewn over the top. 

 Front row, far left, has medal ribbons but no overseas service stripes, as does the man second from right. The man second left has o/s stripes, but no ribbons. 

Echo?   @CorporalPunishment 

[CorporalPunishment]

53 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Engineers Signallers with blue and white armbands sewn to the jacket sleeves, then rank stripes sewn over the top. 

 Front row, far left, has medal ribbons but no overseas service stripes, as does the man second from right. The man second left has o/s stripes, but no ribbons. 

Echo?   @CorporalPunishment 

Very odd!! 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Engineers Signallers with blue and white armbands sewn to the jacket sleeves, then rank stripes sewn over the top. 

 Front row, far left, has medal ribbons but no overseas service stripes, as does the man second from right. The man second left has o/s stripes, but no ribbons. 

Echo?   @CorporalPunishment 

New jackets I think.  Medal ribbons were often worn by the end of the war by using metal brooch formers with long pins that facilitated the easy movement from one garment to another.  Overseas service stripes were commonly stitched on and so not so readily done if a jacket was new.  The other chap had his overseas stripes stitched on, but for some reason his medals not available.

Edited 4 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Raster Scanning]

On 16/10/2022 at 22:31, FROGSMILE said:

Super photos, thank you for sharing them.  I especially like the group.  It’s relatively unusual to see drab puttees worn with scarlet home service frocks.  There’s a shortage of insignia with only a few wearing collar badges and several without cap badges too.  Also the front row are showing their military inexperience by folding their arms, something that in a regular army unit would generally only be done by sports teams.

Hi there. As an addition to same. It is really striking how many men have buttons missing. At least one man has only the top and bottom in place. It appears as a problem with both styles of uniform (of course the buttons were the same). There must have been some temporary fix to prevent gaping.

Edited 5 November , 2022 by Raster Scanning

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Raster Scanning said:

Hi there. As an addition to same. It is really striking how many men have buttons missing. At least one man has only the top and bottom in place. It appears as a problem with both styles of uniform (of course the buttons were the same). There must have been some temporary fix to prevent gaping.

Extraordinary, I’ve never seen that before with any previous unit photos.  I’m surprised that the battalion’s quartermaster didn’t order a system of which buttons to leave out uniformly, which would’ve been possible with the 7-button pattern of home service frock, but access to a devoted unit tailor was needed to do that.  

Edited 5 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[aodhdubh]

On 16/10/2022 at 17:31, FROGSMILE said:

Super photos, thank you for sharing them.  I especially like the group.  It’s relatively unusual to see drab puttees worn with scarlet home service frocks.  There’s a shortage of insignia with only a few wearing collar badges and several without cap badges too.  Also the front row are showing their military inexperience by folding their arms, something that in a regular army unit would generally only be done by sports teams.

I've wondered about the missing capbadges in this 1914/1915 photograph of the first overseas service contingent of the Bermuda Volunteer Rifle Corps training at Warwick Camp in Bermuda for the Western Front. Though badge-free helmets were also worn in Bermuda, the khaki service dress peaked caps had been on issue to the unit for years before the war, and the cap badge with it, so the lack of cap badges would not have been down to recent introduction of service dress caps.

 

My assumption is that the contingent, having been rapidly formed in December 1914 by volunteers already serving on local-service terms, and either former soldiers who re-enlisted or civilians with no prior service (other than perhaps the cadet corps) who enlisted specifically for overseas service, the overall strength of the BVRC must have been rapidly increased and they simply did not have enough cap badges on hand to meet the demand.

 

You note something similar during the Second World War with uniforms, with photographs showing personnel of the local territorials, which were rapidly brought up to war-time strength, and were further boosted by the introduction of conscription, wearing khaki drills (with shorts) year round...even when regular army personnel in the same photograph are wearing serge uniforms (with long trousers). Normally, serge uniforms were worn during the cooler months and cotton drills during the summers. This came on the heels of the introduction of Battle Dress, and the local service units did not receive Battle Dress 'til about 1942/3. I have seen contemporary correspondence on the issue of the lack of availability of Battle Dress in Bermuda at the time.

Edited 5 November , 2022 by aodhdubh