Kath Posted 6 May , 2022 Share Posted 6 May , 2022 Marriages 1914 CARLTON Ada & GILL William George Births Sep 1917 After William died Gill, Evelyn Ada UK, Royal Navy and Royal Marine War Graves Roll, 1914-1919 Name: William George Gill Rank: Ldg Smn Birth Date: 28 Jan.1885 Birth Place: Brentford, Middlesex Branch of Service: Royal Navy Cause of Death: Killed or died as a direct result of enemy action Official Number Port Division: 211402. (Ch) Death Date: 2 May 1917 Ship or Unit: HMS Derwent Location of Grave: Not recorded Name and Address of Cemetery: Body Not Recovered For Burial Relatives Notified and Address: Widow: Ada V 115, Bayonne Road, Fulham Cross, Hammersmith, SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 6 May , 2022 Share Posted 6 May , 2022 34 minutes ago, Kath said: Marriages 1914 CARLTON Ada & GILL William George Births Sep 1917 After William died Gill, Evelyn Ada UK, Royal Navy and Royal Marine War Graves Roll, 1914-1919 Name: William George Gill Rank: Ldg Smn Birth Date: 28 Jan.1885 Birth Place: Brentford, Middlesex Branch of Service: Royal Navy Cause of Death: Killed or died as a direct result of enemy action Official Number Port Division: 211402. (Ch) Death Date: 2 May 1917 Ship or Unit: HMS Derwent Location of Grave: Not recorded Name and Address of Cemetery: Body Not Recovered For Burial Relatives Notified and Address: Widow: Ada V 115, Bayonne Road, Fulham Cross, Hammersmith, SW Wow! What a poignant card. He put the ship's name on the front of the card, the same ship in which he lost his life. Also, his widow's address aligns with the details of the RN & RM War Graves Roll. Another life cut far too short, and another family left to pick up the pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 6 May , 2022 Share Posted 6 May , 2022 HMS DERWENT - Destroyer of 1903, Sunk by mine off Le Havre on 2 May 1917. Very poignant card, thanks for posting Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 May , 2022 Share Posted 6 May , 2022 (edited) She went down with 58 officers and men from a full complement of 70. It is indeed an extraordinary card to survive all this time. She was a nippy looking little thing at full revolutions! A very exposed looking bridge and the 70-men must have had very cramped quarters by the look of her proportions forrard. Edited 6 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 7 May , 2022 Share Posted 7 May , 2022 a mix of RWF cap badges and one with a SWB badge, but he appears to have T7 RWF titles as do the others I can makeout, at camp I imagine c. 1910 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May , 2022 Share Posted 7 May , 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Jerry B said: a mix of RWF cap badges and one with a SWB badge, but he appears to have T7 RWF titles as do the others I can makeout, at camp I imagine c. 1910 All RWF, but the fellow with the odd badge must presumably be a recent transferee, albeit that it does seem odd. The recruiting boundary between the 23rd and 24th Regimental District’s overlapped down on the border between Monmouthshire, Brecknockshire, and Montgomery and Merioneth. At first I thought he might’ve been a young fellow on a university cadetship, and wearing the cap badge of the university of Wales, but I can see the Sphinx in the centre so it does appear to be SWB, as you say. The fact that he’s wearing RWF shoulder titles and is at camp with an RWF battalion does suggest that it’s his new allegiance, rather than the other way around. Given the significant number of men with signaller badges the group is almost certainly the battalion’s signal section. NB. I love the Army issue mallet, steel pail (forming an ad hoc seat) and white enamel mug, all of which were still in common usage when I enlisted over 50-years later. Edited 7 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 7 May , 2022 Share Posted 7 May , 2022 4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: NB. I love the Army issue mallet, steel pail (forming an ad hoc seat) and white enamel mug, all of which were still in common usage when I enlisted over 50-years later. The well dressed soldier in the centre forking out pickles from the pickle jar (it would be worth a few bucks today!) his cup looks like an unofficial issue as it appears to have what appear to be children (or possibly his children) on the mug, very interesting I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May , 2022 Share Posted 7 May , 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RNCVR said: Yes I spotted that too Bryan, it looks like an earthenware tankard going by its handle. He also has something white inside his jacket collar, either a white shirt or more likely a neck scarf. It was those features plus his cap badge that made me wonder if he might be a university cadet. Edited 7 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 7 May , 2022 Share Posted 7 May , 2022 I'm not certain it's earthenware, it appears to be possibly porcelain to me, but porcelain would not be a great choice for outdoor camping! Inside his jacket collar could be a white detachable collar similar to those worn by RN officers with their dress uniforms. To me this fellow has the look of a potential officer candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 May , 2022 Share Posted 8 May , 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, RNCVR said: I'm not certain it's earthenware, it appears to be possibly porcelain to me, but porcelain would not be a great choice for outdoor camping! Inside his jacket collar could be a white detachable collar similar to those worn by RN officers with their dress uniforms. To me this fellow has the look of a potential officer candidate. Yes I think that he must indeed be a university officer cadet sponsored by the South Wales Borderers but attending annual summer camp “attached” to 7th RWF (Territorial Force) in order to qualify for his cash bounty and meet the terms of his cadetship. The SWB at that time only had the Brecknockshire Battalion allocated as its T.F. unit, plus an affiliation with the otherwise entirely separate Monmouthshire Regiment, none of which units wore the SWB cap badge, but instead a badge based on the Dragon of Wales. It’s very interesting that to mark his training arrangement he appears to wear the shoulder title of the unit to which he’s attached, plus the cap badge of the regiment sponsoring him (probably issued the jacket by the RWF Quarter-Master). There can be no other explanation really. Thank you @Jerry Bfor posting the image. Edited 8 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 8 May , 2022 Share Posted 8 May , 2022 Another angle worth considering (if only for a moment) is that the 7th (Merionethshire & Montgomeryshire) Bn. RWF (TF) was prior to 1908 the 5th (Volunteer) Bn. South Wales Borderers. Scope perhaps for an old badge to creep in if the photo was taken in that changeover period? It doesn't mean that the man couldn't be affiliated to the 7th RWF, and the shoulder titles and possible Aberystwyth OTC badge might confirm that explanation, but it would help if someone could confirm that after 1908 the College OTC was specifically affiliated to 7th RWF? At Bangor the College OTC was affiliated to the town's 1st Welsh (Carnarvonshire) Heavy Battery RGA (TF). Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 May , 2022 Share Posted 8 May , 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, clive_hughes said: Another angle worth considering (if only for a moment) is that the 7th (Merionethshire & Montgomeryshire) Bn. RWF (TF) was prior to 1908 the 5th (Volunteer) Bn. South Wales Borderers. Scope perhaps for an old badge to creep in if the photo was taken in that changeover period? It doesn't mean that the man couldn't be affiliated to the 7th RWF, and the shoulder titles and possible Aberystwyth OTC badge might confirm that explanation, but it would help if someone could confirm that after 1908 the College OTC was specifically affiliated to 7th RWF? At Bangor the College OTC was affiliated to the town's 1st Welsh (Carnarvonshire) Heavy Battery RGA (TF). Clive You raise an excellent point Clive. The gilding metal (brass alloy) shoulder titles were relatively new at the time of the photo and had only begun to be worn at the same time as the Territorial Force was established to replace the old Volunteer Force (which wasn’t disbanded but placed in abeyance). As for the University of Wales at Aberystwyth, I’ve not heard of it being aligned with any specific RWF battalion. What puzzles me is that he should be wearing both sets of insignia that are in essence conflicting and it’s that aspect that makes me think he’s being sponsored by the SWB but probably given an SD jacket to wear by the 7th RWF Quartermaster. Otherwise it’s difficult to square the “mixed dress”. Edited 8 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 8 May , 2022 Share Posted 8 May , 2022 he is definietly wear a SWB cap badge. I like his pottery mug, with the children on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 May , 2022 Share Posted 8 May , 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jerry B said: he is definietly wear a SWB cap badge. I like his pottery mug, with the children on it Yes I agree. So he can only be a trainee officer cadet, as there were no TF SWB battalions wearing the SWB regular badge. Edited 8 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 Unknown soldier More unknown soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 On 01/05/2022 at 22:11, Jerry B said: Yours sincerely Percy August 11th 1916 E E Egypt, if anyone recognises his helmet flash? I assume no one had any idea on the helmet flash, I think he is Egyptian expeditionary force, but not what the flash is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jerry B said: I assume no one had any idea on the helmet flash, I think he is Egyptian expeditionary force, but not what the flash is? I’m sorry, but no idea in this case. There were so many of these pagri flashes during the course of the war and no comprehensively definitive study appears to have ever been published or recorded. Have you tried consulting @poona guard? Edited 9 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, themonsstar said: Unknown soldier More unknown soldier The uppermost fellow is Devonshire Regiment, in the centre a very fine image of a Garrison Military Policeman** in a hot climate (perhaps somewhere like Egypt) and at bottom a soldier from the Essex Regiment with a long lee enfield rifle. A coloured edging to the helmet’s pagri was a distinction adopted by a number of regiments so unfortunately it’s not definitive evidence as to regiment. The armlet has been fashioned using locally made up brass lettering, which was a popular, smart method for some regular army units in particular. **men so appointed were usually automatically given the appointment and authority of lance corporal so ambitious men would sometimes volunteer for the duty. In peacetime it was usually a requirement that at least one good conduct badge was in possession as a marker of good standing. Edited 9 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said: I’m sorry, but no idea in this case. There were so many of these pagri flashes during the course of the war and no comprehensively definitive study appears to have ever been published or recorded. Have you tried consulting @poona guard? thanks, it is as I expected from my own research but sometimes someone will know these obscure flashes from a known photo or relative who served Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 1 minute ago, Jerry B said: thanks, it is as I expected from my own research but sometimes someone will know these obscure flashes from a known photo or relative who served Yes I understand, I had a good look through everything I have, but don’t recognise it. David (Poona Guard) might know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, themonsstar said: Unknown soldier More unknown soldier It would be good for continuity and reference if you could also post or move the image of your Garrison Military Policeman to the following thread that shows a diverse selection of such photographs: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/175861-regimental-police/ Edited 9 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: The uppermost fellow is Devonshire Regiment, in the centre a very fine image of a Garrison Military Policeman** in a hot climate (perhaps somewhere like Egypt) and at bottom a soldier from the Essex Regiment with a long lee enfield rifle. A coloured edging to the helmet’s pagri was a distinction adopted by a number of regiments so unfortunately it’s not definitive evidence as to regiment. The armlet has been fashioned using locally made up brass lettering, which was a popular, smart method for some regular army units in particular. **men so appointed were usually automatically given the appointment and authority of lance corporal so ambitious men would sometimes volunteer for the duty. In peacetime it was usually a requirement that at least one good conduct badge was in possession as a marker of good standing. The lower man is Dorsetshire Regiment, not Essex Regiment. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 May , 2022 Share Posted 9 May , 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said: The lower man is Dorsetshire Regiment, not Essex Regiment. Pete. Thank you, noted. Edited 9 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 13 May , 2022 Share Posted 13 May , 2022 T4 welsh regiment at camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 May , 2022 Share Posted 13 May , 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Jerry B said: T4 welsh regiment at camp That’s a super and very natural looking image of typical young Territorials Jerry. Some good views of long lee enfield rifles, with the old style buff leather slings, and both p08 and Slade-Wallace waistbelts. There are also some rather youthful lads standing at left, who look under 17. Edited 13 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now