Postcards

[Drew-1918]

On 24/09/2010 at 07:00, john gregory said:

Unknown 24 London, MM winner, x chevrons, 4 overseas chevrons, bomber, spade battle patch.

 

 

On 24/09/2010 at 16:55, Andy Wade said:

Just looking at all these items, you'd think that it might be possible to identify this man, how many MM winners did 24 London have? Perhaps his name could be narrowed down a bit given that he's gone on to be a corporal and has overseas chevrons. Assuming that the information could be found in the first place of course...

 

I have always liked this photo from the start of this great thread. Reading The Lambeth & Southwark Volunteers, by J. M. A. Tamplin, I notice he has traced 181 names of 24th Londons MM winners in the Great War. I started to look into narrowing down the names as Andy suggested was possible. The detail available in the London Regiment medal rolls makes this relatively easy to do. However, something occurred to me after I started trying to calculate the overseas service. Is it accrued only for every calendar year you were in France? For example, there are many men who were in France at some point in 1915, 16, 17, 18 (and even 1919), but this did not always add up to 4 calendar years. They might have only been in theatre for a few months in any given year. I have searched the Forum and think I understand that the regulations are pretty clear that it must be a calendar year, but I wondered how far this was always adhered to? I would be grateful if anyone has any input on this as it would help in having a look.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[Drew-1918]

I have some cross-checking to do, but there is only one name that sticks out at the moment: Cpl. James Benjamin Parry, 2354, 720567. His service record is here: J. B. Parry, though I have not had chance to look at it properly. I got this name using a strict understanding of how the rules for the overseas service chevrons should apply. As the 1/24th Londons landed on the 15th March 1915, this actually gives quite a tight window to accrue 4 years service and so helps to narrow it down. This and the fact that not many men went through the whole show, makes it highly likely that this is the only 1/24th London gentleman it could be. Of course, some would have transferred out, and perhaps accrued 4 stripes, but would they have been wearing 24th Londons insignia in the photo at the end? I suppose there is a chance that the gentleman in the photo transferred into the 24th Londons, but this is my best guess at the moment. I hope this is of some help.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[Grovetown]

On 02/12/2018 at 00:45, Drew-1918 said:

However, something occurred to me after I started trying to calculate the overseas service. Is it accrued only for every calendar year you were in France? For example, there are many men who were in France at some point in 1915, 16, 17, 18 (and even 1919), but this did not always add up to 4 calendar years. They might have only been in theatre for a few months in any given year. I have searched the Forum and think I understand that the regulations are pretty clear that it must be a calendar year, but I wondered how far this was always adhered to? I would be grateful if anyone has any input on this as it would help in having a look.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

 

Chris

 

It's not per calendar year; it's per aggregate 12 months.

 

You qualified for your first one upon leaving home or August 5th 1914 if based at an overseas establishment; and then acquired another one per 12 months service - which was allowed to include leave periods totalling one month.

 

Thus: you could arrive in 1914, and serve overseas every subsequent year and still only be entitled to one OS chevron if that total time failed to aggregate to 12 months.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

[Toby Brayley]

An unknown Northamptonshire and his family. 

Edited 4 December , 2018 by Toby Brayley

[Beechhill]

On 29/11/2018 at 21:30, GWF1967 said:

A cabbage guillotine?

Reminds me of an old-fashioned bread slicer standing on its side. It just *could* be a loaf placed in the holder. 

[Drew-1918]

5 hours ago, Grovetown said:

 

Chris

 

It's not per calendar year; it's per aggregate 12 months.

 

You qualified for your first one upon leaving home or August 5th 1914 if based at an overseas establishment; and then acquired another one per 12 months service - which was allowed to include leave periods totalling one month.

 

Thus: you could arrive in 1914, and serve overseas every subsequent year and still only be entitled to one OS chevron if that total time failed to aggregate to 12 months.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

 

Thanks a lot, GT. An aggregate year is what I meant. I was using the wrong term😣, but actually I calculated it in the way you mention. Apologies.

 

Thanks very much for the clarification.

 

Chris

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, Beechhill said:

Reminds me of an old-fashioned bread slicer standing on its side. It just *could* be a loaf placed in the holder. 

 

Yes that’s a really good suggestion, and like the cabbage splitter quite feasible for ASC tradesmen responsible for rationing.

Edited 3 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Scalyback]

26 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Yes that’s a really good suggestion, and like the cabbage splitter quite feasible for ASC tradesmen responsible for rationing.

 

Even before the ACC, did the troops have the standard jokes about catering supplied by the cooks? 

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

22 minutes ago, Scalyback said:

 

Even before the ACC, did the troops have the standard jokes about catering supplied by the cooks? 

 

 

 

Yes I believe so according to anecdote.  There were also infantry cooks trained for each company under the Sergeant Master Cook, one of the dozen or so battalion HQ staff sergeants.

[Toby Brayley]

Seeing as my previous bedspace Postcard was so popular, here's another gem. Scots Guardsman and his bedspace. The card was sent home to Liverpool in 1908. Lots to see here including an SMLE Mk1, a mix of 1888 and 1903 Bandolier Equipment.

 

 

Edited 4 December , 2018 by Toby Brayley

[GRANVILLE]

What do we think the bag over his left shoulder will contain?

 

David

[Muerrisch]

Lovely bed plate. I collect early ones.

[Toby Brayley]

Just now, GRANVILLE said:

What do we think the bag over his left shoulder will contain?

 

David

 

David, I am guessing his Bearskin.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Toby Brayley said:

 

David, I am guessing his Bearskin.

 

Yes it’s his bearskin in its issued cloth case.  Similar drawstring  bags were issued for helmets in line regiments and cavalry.

Edited 4 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[robins2]

 

not a very clear photo 

[Toby Brayley]

Very nice,rarely do you see chargers of ammunition on a kit displays of this era. 

Edited 5 December , 2018 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

NCOs of Queen's Own Royal West Kents. An interesting mix of QVC and KC on their insignia. A number of them are India and 2nd Boer War Veterans. There is a lone Army Gymnastic Staff  Instructor.

 

 

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

What a cracking photo Toby!  The front row has the big hitters; Sgt Maj of Battalion, QMS and ORQMS, flanked by 4 colour sergeant.  The Gymnastics Staff chap is extremely rare to see in formal uniform. He has a row of gold Russia braid at the base of his collar and around the shoulder straps to mark his status as 2nd Class Staff Sergeant in the unit HQ.  I’m unsure if all the sitters are wearing the last, late 1890s pattern frock in just blue, or if some of them are scarlet.  The officers dropped their scarlet version in 1902 in favour of the dark 3/4 length frock coat, but SNCOs seem to have kept theirs until closer to WW1.  Thereafter the blue was used by both, most especially when overseas.

[Muerrisch]

I think this is a "wing" or half-battalion's worth of SNCOs, and in blue. The absence of sashes suggests that to me.

[sueburden]

There is no absence of moustaches.

Sue

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

I think this is a "wing" or half-battalion's worth of SNCOs, and in blue. The absence of sashes suggests that to me.

 

Yes the absence of sashes is a really good point that I missed.

[Andy Wade]

9 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

NCOs of Queen's Own Royal West Kents. An interesting mix of QVC and KC on their insignia. A number of them are India and 2nd Boer War Veterans. There is a lone Army Gymnastic Staff  Instructor.

 

His collar also looks somewhat darker than the rest of his frock/tunic. Is it a different colour, perhaps red?

[Muerrisch]

I noticed that too. Red should be darker than blue, but I am terminally ignorant on matters physical , gymnastic and exercise. An expert will be along soon ......

[MBrockway]

6 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

What a cracking photo Toby! 

 

Hear hear!

[FROGSMILE]

45 minutes ago, Andy Wade said:

 

His collar also looks somewhat darker than the rest of his frock/tunic. Is it a different colour, perhaps red?

 

This is what confused me too, several of the other frocks look a similar shade (regardless of collar) and might well be red/scarlet.  It would be quite correct for the AGS to have worn scarlet with blue collar, as along with the School of Musketry, they wore scarlet with blue facings and were generally dressed and accoutred as infantry.  He might well be wearing scarlet, but as Muerrisch noted it would be unusual for sergeants sashes to not be worn.

Edited 6 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE