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Remembered Today:

Casualty Lists


stiletto_33853

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I echo that.  Although the Mods were publicly silent on our concerns, I was pretty sure much work was going on behind the scenes.

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Yes, me too - a good, workable and fair response to a difficult issue. 

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On 29/03/2023 at 06:49, GWF TEAM said:

It has now been decided to allow the thread to be re-opened but in order to ensure that we try our best to comply with copyright restrictions all new posts should clearly list the appropriate image attribution in line with forum rules. These already clarify that members should acknowledge sources when quoting or using material sources otherwise these items may be removed without notice. Members should also ensure that any images being posted comply with fair dealing under copyright law.

We would also ask that as far as is practical members should ensure that all images already posted are correctly attributed to reduce the risk of future issues.

Thanks again to the Administrators for reopening this thread. I hope to post some more lists in due course, I will ensure that each one is attributed with a source. I will also go back over my posts and add an attribution to them, though that may take a while.

As for "fair dealing under copyright law" my thoughts are this.

The majority of lists are to be found on FindMyPast under WO363 & WO364, a total of 4,237,548 records. About 5,000 lists from FMP have been posted, if we work on a list having 20 names then that is 100,000 records which equates to around 2.5%. 

The ICRC lists that have come to light amount to around 2,100. I will not be posting these but intend to rename them with the list number (usually HB or X) and list the "R" reference that it links to on the free ICRC site. These details will then be added to the index of lists that has been created.

Hope that's all ok with those looking after the site.

Dave

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So the Mods statement on thread closure as to being deemed unnecessary has proved erroneous then. This is the wording I took exception to, and still do!

These lists are extremely useful! I agree wholeheartedly with Dink999 post as to 2.5% and fair dealing. Some of these lists have not even been indexed supposedly by FMP and none by Ancestry. 

So the question that still needs to be asked is what are the Mods going to do about the very numerous threads/posts using IWM, Ancestry or FMP sources and no credit given whatsoever. What is good for one thread is good for another thread surely.

I thank the Mods for re-opening this thread, however, I do feel that this has been managed badly. What with no mention of the nature of this complaint and the re-opening of the thread leads me to believe that possibly it could be from a member?

Andy

Edited by stiletto_33853
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  • 3 weeks later...

Here are a few more lists not on the March index. 

The images are courtesy of Find My Past

HB 642

image.jpeg.8bbd4f99697aa1be6d920ead02af610f.jpeg

 

HB 660

image.jpeg.02d73a86e8893c3ac877702c1486fdd8.jpeg

 

HB 1879

image.jpeg.f314df6a8ee42a78d1c93b9f590cfa85.jpeg

 

HB 2914

image.jpeg.7adf25f7a7655de190b1e5b1cf31d72a.jpeg

 

HB 2987

image.jpeg.95d57200a4717b31b049ccc2810350ae.jpeg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Four more not on the March Index.

HA 23381

HA 31380

HB 8848

P 109231

HA 23381.jpg

HA 31380.jpg

HB 8848.jpg

P 109231.jpg

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Diane

In the past I always used to mention WO 363 or WO 364 and show the Ancestry Filmstrip number. I thought we had established that since the vast majority of these lists came from WO 363 or WO 364 it was no longer necessary to quote these references and there was only a need to acknowledge other lists e.g the ones in the SWB Rolls initially found by SteveE and following his lead myself, (still TNA) or the Newfoundland Lists which were not in TNA.

However, in order not to rock the boat,

HA 23381 TNA WO 363 Emile Mahy (Ancestry Filmstrip Mah 15452)

Another HA 31380 TNA WO 363 George Thomas Wilkinson (Wil 384289) different to yesterday TNA WO 363 Nicholas Mahey (Mah 15613)

HB 8848 TNA WO 363 William Smith TNA WO 363 (Smi 571440)

P 109231 TNA WO 363 William Smith  TNA WO 363 (Smi 570859)

I will revert to my old system for any other lists I find.

Brian

 

HA 31380.jpg

Edited by brianmorris547
typo
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7 hours ago, Bardess said:

Brian, I think it's only necessary to state whether they are from Ancestry or FMP really

Ok wilco

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Here are a few more HA lists, images courtesy of Find My Past

HA15680

image.jpeg.77c0ff275b2f55d089d0e10fddcdc710.jpeg

 

HA15687

image.jpeg.b16f9d95b867ceee8cb3e5528ce68ba7.jpeg

 

HA 15712 different from id 491 on page 28

image.jpeg.18fc1270cd9dec79757a84cc58b79efb.jpeg

 

2 different HA 15714 lists

HA15714_2.jpg.5e7e9a8963b2cf5159af1061ec0c80fd.jpgHA15714_1.jpg.9d940a5063e1a2518b409c9583ecc9d7.jpg

 

HA 15724

image.jpeg.b9d944bce4ce3bc763759793c8048981.jpeg

 

HA 15729

image.jpeg.f3b2e95af9c81ea257a5a74cfd800072.jpeg

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HW 2772

Courtesy FMP

HW 2772.jpg

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E 5083

FMP

E 5083.jpg

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On p 63 list HD 1028 was posted. I found a partial list with the same names but the service numbers are clearer.

Also HA 17284 not on the current index.

FMP

HD 1028 63.jpg

HD 1028.jpg

HA 17284.jpg

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A few more courtesy of Find My Past

HA15734

image.jpeg.c691bd81f19036e6b9dfa1df40f1ef31.jpeg

 

2 versions of HA 15737 each with different damage but together show all the information

HA15737.jpg.1de934b494cfe994cc67db312f5b2fc6.jpgHA15737(2).jpg.c8c296b357126855815e22c73123d062.jpg

 

HA 15738

image.jpeg.92eb1d1cd3a507d38164eb234dbb1133.jpeg

 

HA 15742

HA15742A.jpg.4c51be1fb5d31ab5bef8d8bb4ef3d997.jpg

 

HA 15746

image.jpeg.fc1261dc4c16965b1c8525023e39ee8b.jpeg

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When searching for a particular soldier, I came across this document stored by the National Library of Scotland.  I never knew such Lists were a formal publication.

 

 

Screenshot 2023-05-06 080013.png

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1 hour ago, John(txic) said:

When searching for a particular soldier, I came across this document stored by the National Library of Scotland.  I never knew such Lists were a formal publication.

Just to add to John's post

The First World War Weekly Casualty Lists from 1917-1919 published in four volumes by His Majesty's Stationery Office. These lists contain the names of British service personnel who were reported as wounded, missing, taken prisoner of war, or killed in action. From September 1914, several national newspapers published the Daily War Office Casualty Lists. This ended in August 1917, due to paper shortage and also the effect on public morale

The documents can be accessed on the following link

Link to document

 

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HB 8570

Not on the current index.

FMP

HB 8570.jpg

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Images courtesy of Find My Past

HA15749

image.jpeg.eba9f3d70a5208601ae5261bdf00d8d8.jpeg

 

HA 15753

image.jpeg.de52958ac32216f58af0d7acfcde0279.jpeg

 

2 different HA 15784 lists

HA15784_3.jpg.08a81782e791012cf81487f396830d5e.jpgHA15784.JPG.7912008b11dcf14bb01d94c6e14e16ee.JPG 

 

HA 15787

image.jpeg.fb6481d432e13da3773726881f454e8b.jpeg

 

HA 15789

image.jpeg.2bed7c04e23802d21cce40480ad719d0.jpeg

 

This list is HA 15790 thanks to the records of 25340 Pte Croughton

image.jpeg.ae952a0b20c297bdbf2005fb2ec9afc0.jpeg

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5 lists courtesy of Find My Past

H15791

image.jpeg.c2cbc03df14d506a1c75652db1b5e4e4.jpeg

 

HA 15794

image.jpeg.fede0743d4c72b94bfebac0e6fffcffd.jpeg

 

2 HA 15798 lists

HA15798.JPG.87ede5c29f520f00da715a892f5a06b8.JPGHA15798Large.jpeg.245e2080f1c7e8983b9cc3a8144f750d.jpeg

 

HA 15799

image.jpeg.66caae1cb5150f1a1c12dd10f4488055.jpeg

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Images courtesy of Find My Past

2 images of the same HA 15805 List, one of which shows the full details of a Government contractor.

 HA15805_2.jpg.0a04f15ba3a30ad60d22ada2d4d7753e.jpgHA15805_1A.jpeg.a4dd724add08d6e98f5801f4c3545bcc.jpeg

 

HA 15812

image.jpeg.fdd9d9dac48c2069b8d3857d931b5618.jpeg

 

HA 15813

image.jpeg.b1790f9eb9a10484c9a2020732513b3b.jpeg

 

HA 15822

image.jpeg.da6c5eb3bfcff40402c058ace7181b30.jpeg

 

HA 15824

image.jpeg.4d992d97e141ba2fb7406e538de85ce5.jpeg

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Having spent the last couple of days trolling backwards through this thread and reaching only page 75, I’m wondering if anyone has any better ideas for the search. As some of you who have previously helped me will know, I have been researching my grandfather (Andrew Clark #10260) 1st and 8th Seaforth for some years. I honestly think I already have most of the information available regarding him but it seems that snippets come up from time to time which suggest a new avenue. I have local newspaper articles stating that he was wounded three times. The first was December 1914 which must have been at Festubert and the third I know was July 31st 1917 at Ypres. 
 

I guess what I am wondering is, whether anyone knows if there are in fact any lists of 1 st or 8th Seaforth wounded in this thread. The first wounding would likely have involved the British 20th or 19th F. A. or the Meerut Division FA. The last time would have been the 15th Scottish Division F.A.  Does anyone know if any of these medical records exist?

Finally able to visit the Somme in a couple of weeks and have been doing some homework!

Thanks,

Hazel Clark

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Hazel

I assume that you have checked all the Newfoundland lists that Dink posted recently. The names on those do not come up on a FMP search.

Brian

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Thanks Brian,

I am not sure exactly which records I have checked as I am systematically scanning back through all of the lists on this thread and haven’t paid much attention to which hospital etc. lists I’m checking. I have noticed however, that so far there are few records for any Seaforth or Gordon’s men. It made me wonder if Scottish records were possibly destroyed .Since I have service records and personal information regarding my 1st Gordon’s uncle I pretty well know everything out there, but my grandfather has required more sleuthing (with which you helped enormously) since he had no contact with the family after about 1925 when he and my grandmother parted company. Everything about him was destroyed by my grandmothers family.  I know that he was in a hospital in Orpington in 1917 after 3rd Ypres and it is possible that it was the Canadian Hospital since there don’t seem to have been any others there. Those records may be available if one knew where they went.

Hazel

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Hazel,

If you have not already done so, it is worth downloading the index of these lists that has been compiled. See,  Casualty Lists an Index

From the dates you have mentioned the December 1914 one will have just a reference number in the range 4500 to 8000.

A wounding in late July 1917 would mean he could be on a list with an HA prefix in the range HA12300-HA13000

If he was later admitted to a UK hospital he would be on an HB list, possibly HB7260 onwards.

Dave

 

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