Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Casualty Lists - an index


David26
 Share

Recommended Posts

As promised, please find attached an index to the lists which have been posted on the Casualty Lists thread.  

It contains all unique lists posted up to the end of 26 February 2022.  (I will have to work out how best to update it periodically with the new postings that will inevitably occur over time).

It is in .csv format and anyone wishing to should be able to take a copy to sort and use for their own purposes.

I hope it proves useful,

David.

UPDATE 22 MAY 2022:

Here is an updated copy of the index.  It is posted here, as well as at the end of the thread, at the helpful suggestion of a forum member. 

This copy of the index has 248 new entries on it since the last version posted in April.   It also contains a number of improvements on the previous version, thanks in large part to very helpful observations from various forum members.   Most of these changes provide additional information in the comments, but it has also included a small number of corrections to list numbers and dates, and the removal of five entries which were duplicates of other entries.  If anyone would like a full list of the changes please PM me.

Casualty Lists as at 2022 05 21.csv

UPDATE 14 April 2022:  please find here a new version of the index with all of the additional lists which have been published on the Casualty Lists thread since 26 February.  There are now 5025 entries on the index.

Casualty Lists as at 2022 04 13.csv

Casualty Lists as at 26 Feb 2022.csv

Edited by David26
Providing updated information
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought it might also be interesting to include some initial analysis of the various numbering schemes we see in these lists.

Since @stiletto_33853 first started this thread in January 2008, a total of 33 different forum members have posted lists here and between us we have 4435 entries on the index. 

The following breaks down what we have as of this date:

Pre-fix

Nr of lists

Lowest

Nr seen

Date of lowest nr

Highest nr seen

Date of highest nr

Purpose

(none)

153

4363

1914 11 26

29811

1915 07 07

All-purpose casualty reporting list

B

8

688

1916 02 16

13269

1918 06 11

Balkan Force Casualties

C

23

516

1916.06.28

1725

1918 10 25

Casualties

E

53

477

1916 02 20

16063

1918 05 11

Egyptian Force Casualties

GHQ

11

602

1916 04 25

1303

1918 03 27

 

H

589

104

1915 07 06

9545

1916 06 09

Sick and wounded NCO's and men of (various) Expeditionary Forces

HA

2235

107

1916 06 09

37336

1919 07 22

Sick and wounded NCO's and men of the Expeditionary Force, France

HB

117

102

1916 06 10

16449

1918 12 29

Sick and wounded NCO's and men of the Expeditionary Force, France

HC

12

120

1916 05 31

2921

1916 12 15

Sick and wounded NCO's and men of the Expeditionary Force, Persian Gulf or Egypt

HD

6

343

1916 06 29

4790

1917 09 18

Sick and wounded NCO's and men of the Expeditionary Force, East Africa or Persian Gulf

HW

87

170

1917 04 22

3004

1919 03 18

Progress Reports Received by Post.  In certain cases the same information or a later report may already have been received by telegram and communicated to record offices.  Care should be taken to check this before notification.

HX

1

91406

1918 12 12

   

Comment: I think this is most likely a typographical error on the sheet and it was meant to be X.91406

IB

3

101

1916 12 08

243

1917 06 08

 

M

131

5608

1915 09 06

20892

1916 07 16

Mediterranean Force Casualties

OP

1

7097

1918 06 28

     

P

801

2001

1915 08 19

174259

1919 04 16

Progress report

PG

1

   

10876

1917 07 28

 

PM

12

149

 

614

1919 01 17

Official German List forwarded through Geneva Red Cross

PW

1

413

1918 05 18

     

unid

70

         

X

120

232

1915 06 30

95633

1919 03 16

For information only, not to be communicated outside the War Office, OR
List of Repatriated British Prisoners of War Arrived at ….

 

The lists we have will have an obvious bias towards those periods of time and theatres of war when units of the Newfoundland Expeditionary Force were engaged, given all of the excellent work of dink999 in finding such a large proportion of the lists we have at present from their records. But taking that into account, I think we can make some useful deductions as to when the numbering schemes were introduced and why.

It would appear that the first set of casualty lists are the ones which had no prefixes.  The earliest such list that we have (List No. 4363 on p.56) dates from 26 November 1914.  Given the rate at which these lists were issued over similar time-frames in the first half of 1915, it appears likely that these lists began at the outbreak of the war.  This numbering scheme continues until early July 1915 – the last we have is List No. 29808 of 8 July 1915 (on p.6). 

It is at about this time that the ‘H’ prefix lists appear to start so it may be that this new numbering scheme replaced the older unprefixed scheme.  It may be also that several other numbering schemes – including at least lists with the E, M, P and X prefixes – also started in about early July 1915.

This may best be seen in the attached chart which shows the periods over which the lists we have found so far are dated.  Within each coloured bar are the lowest and highest list number to help estimate when each numbering scheme might have started.  (Only numbering schemes where we have found at least 50 different lists are shown for ease).

image.png.bdf0785c5cd4a55fb6e67ae695d9a240.png

Incidentally, it is interesting to note that in none of the numbering schemes have we yet to find a list with a single or double digit number – the lowest we have are all just over 100, so it is not clear if each numbering scheme started at ‘1’ or perhaps they started at ‘100’. 

I’m sure these lists and numbering schemes have much more to offer and so look forward to further analysis by other forum members.

David.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks David,

Downloaded the csv which will keep me busy today!

TEW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, TEW said:

Thanks David,

Downloaded the csv which will keep me busy today!

TEW

Enjoy!  And I will of course welcome any corrections to any errors I may have inadvertently introduced into this and also any suggestions you or other members might have to make it better or more useful.

David.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I won't feel comfortable pointing things out and I'll avoid using the term 'errors'.

Two slip of the finger typos.

Your ref 1325, List HA 34277. Date reads 1919 91 18. Checked original and it should be 1919 01 18. Page 44, second image posted by Dave 3rd Dec 2021.

Your Ref 4180, List HA 35454. Date reads 1919 93 12.  As above, should read 1919 03 12. Page 57, sixteenth image posted by Dave 16th Feb 2022.

 

I'm hoping that contributors understand that editing earlier posts either to the text or images (removing or adding etc.) will at some point start to throw the page numbering out of kilter with the spreadsheet.

TEW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you TEW.  I'll get those changed.

That's a very good point I hadn't considered about page numberings - it's such a shame the post numbering facility was withdrawn by the hosting company.

And just to say that I'm very comfortable having things pointed out so that this can be as helpful a resource as possible. 

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 27/02/2022 at 09:47, David26 said:

I thought it might also be interesting to include some initial analysis of the various numbering schemes we see in these lists

David,

Meant to say well done with your analysis, I had been thinking of composing something similar but that would not have been as good as your efforts.

You should see from the main thread that I’ll be posting some IN and PG lists from Tuesday

Dave

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Dave, that's very kind. 

And I will look forward to the next set of lists from your very impressive collection!

David.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few more things.

Your ref 65. Spreadsheet has 1916 06 xx. Image does show dates in the range 20th 21st June 1916.

Your ref 154. An almost illegible list posted on page 10. Probably an HA list. No date given for this in the spreadsheet but it is dated 14th April 1917.

Your ref 115. A lo-res image, almost illegible.  The contributor also provided a transcription of this in another thread. SEE HERE. Spreadsheet dates it to 15th May while transcription is saying 18th May. I can't be certain but I don't think the 21002 list number is correct. Can't view the original but it maybe on FMP here.

Your ref 125. Contributor IDd this as 26262. can't be certain again but perhaps 26282? 26289 has the same date as '26262'.

Your ref 158. Perhaps something for the comments column? It's a list of 'died', all buried at various British Cemeteries in Greece.

 

I can see that dating lists from their number sequence is not likely to work, there are genuine ones that jump out of sequence. So for your refs 115 & 125 although they don't seem to fit correctly into the sequence that's not conclusive.

I notice in the opening post of Casualty Lists there's a mention of;  Following the recent thread on these lists. Does this mean the Casualty List topic has a precursor?

TEW

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks David. Very useful!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A simple typo.

Your refs. 3447-3451 are all progress lists all on one sheet/image. 3450 should be 1916 not 1917.

TEW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This maybe more of an observation as there maybe a mistake in the originals.

Page 42, Dink999 posted five lists 22nd Nov 2021 (first and last of these have duplicates).

Your refs. 910, 912, 913, 914 & 915. These are five pages from one long list of wounded officers, number 20892. The problem is the prefix changes from M to X!

  • 910 is M sheet 5 (two copies)
  • 912 is M sheet 4
  • 913 is X sheet 3
  • 914 is X sheet 2
  • 915 is X first sheet (two copies)

By coincidence?? this is the last M prefix list (see your graphic). Earlier M lists are of Mediterranean origin EG. Your Ref. 3772.

I've checked some of the units shown on pages of 20892 and they are based in France in July 1916. 

On Your Ref. 915 Lt. Col EHD Stracey 9th Norfolks signs the battalion diary at the end of June in France.

I'd say all are supposed to be X prefix. Lt LW Cadiac 2nd Essex on M 20892 sheet 5 could easily be one of the 22 officers wounded 1st July 1916 at Bertrancourt.

TEW

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's really helpful, thanks TEW!

I'll get on to those,

David.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TEW, just to follow up on these.  I have updated the spreadsheet I have either amending errors or adding in comments where it's not possible to be certain.  That includes the two lists given as 'M'20892 where I quite agree that these are almost certainly errors on the originals, so have amended these and added in a comment to that effect.

These changes will be available on the index when I next publish an update in a week or two's time.

Thank you again,

David.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

One more for the updated version.

Page 42, fourth image, Dink999, 24th Nov 2021, fourth image. Your refs 934-937 are four P lists on one sheet/image. P 133594 is the first one on this sheet but is missing from the spreadsheet. I’ve added it to my edit as 933.5.

Which leads me to my next query regarding column A your referencing sequence. I have my fingers crossed that this column is not going to be edited in anyway other than continuing the sequence from cell A4436 (your 4489) or added to using decimal points as in my 933.5.

 

Slipping lists in from page/image order by using 933.5 may not be the best way to progress?

TEW

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, TEW said:

Dave,

 

One more for the updated version.

 

Page 42, fourth image, Dink999, 24th Nov 2021, fourth image. Your refs 934-937 are four P lists on one sheet/image. P 133594 is the first one on this sheet but is missing from the spreadsheet. I’ve added it to my edit as 933.5.

 

Which leads me to my next query regarding column A your referencing sequence. I have my fingers crossed that this column is not going to be edited in anyway other than continuing the sequence from cell A4436 (your 4489) or added to using decimal points as in my 933.5.

 

 

Slipping lists in from page/image order by using 933.5 may not be the best way to progress?

TEW

 

Thanks TEW,

Missing a list number like that does cause its problems, doesn't it.  Your suggestion of a decimal seems the best solution so that when anyone sorts the index they can get back to the original order in which the lists were posted afterwards.  I have therefore also used 933.5, but I am always open to suggestions if there is a better, longer-term solution anyone can think of.

And yes, I can confirm that I have no intention of renumbering the reference numbers which is why, as I'm sure you'll have noticed, there are occasional gaps in the numbering sequence where I discovered duplicates late on in the day.  I decided not to try renumbering because I have used these reference numbers for all of the cross-referencing between lists and to have to re-do all that would drive me out of what few wits I still have!    

David.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When viewing and manipulating a speadsheet such as this I have a policy of first adding a column to the left. I then use Fill - Series to sequentially add numbering.

I can then always use it to restore the original sequencing.

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, RobertBr said:

When viewing and manipulating a speadsheet such as this I have a policy of first adding a column to the left. I then use Fill - Series to sequentially add numbering.

I can then always use it to restore the original sequencing.

Bob

Ditto

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David I can't think of a better way to add any missed lists other than the decimal point system. Glad to hear you have no intention of changing your number sequence (left hand column).

TEW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David,

Your ref 3836 is HA 5946, should read 13th Jan 1917 not 1916.

Second image in this composite

https://gwfattachments.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2022_02/E627B0FC-8853-4750-968E-18938662CC7B.jpeg.6a14b65751f17de517f81e32a6916017.jpeg

 

Your ref 2170 is HA 665, 655 should read 4th July 1916 not 4th June. Corrected my typo.

https://gwfattachments.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/9F4B915F-537E-44B9-A005-C65651D37232.jpeg.f3dad6b4448407bf958b61726c9109e0.jpeg

I only spot things like this when trying different sorting systems and things look too much out of kilter, then I check the original.

snip.png.4ae5453b1fee5f442e0152d10492fae8.png

TEW

Edited by TEW
Correcting typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks TEW - it's great having a second pair of eyes on this!

David.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just spotted my typo in my previous post!

I said HA 665 which should have been HA 655. Luckily there's no HA 665 as yet.

TEW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another possible.

Your 342 is an unid & undated list. Having found the list on page 21 the top half is a continuation sheet with no details but lower down the sheet does bear the date 1915 02 27.

Seems to be part of a group of three lists all dated 1915 02 27 which are in the same format.

upload.jpg.8d0efe0d7d3eb23c155c25d5d7d17a00.jpg

TEW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just found a full copy of a list, without the number cropped. Original from Ancestry WO329/3034.

Your ref 298 is 25663

TEW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I found some interesting forms within a WO363 file, will upload into different posts.

First one is a NOK AF W3040, I saw a few like this all used for the same purpose. I think it's a list of telegrams sent to NOK and they give in this case the HD/HB list numbers. this one has 10 list numbers. There's only 6 HD lists on the current spreadsheet although I see Dink999 has uploaded many more from page 60 of Casualty Lists topic. may be just something of interest or perhaps useable at some point to help date HD lists.

At present I've no idea if any of the lists have surfaced.

TEW

NOK.jpg.04d99681b449b94bd60cff286a23a24d.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...