Casualty Lists

[brianmorris547]

On 18/08/2022 at 04:55, hazelclark said:

Hi,

I’m afraid I am not very active on the Forum these days and as a result I’m finding it hard to remember how to do certain things.  In any case, I have been trolling backwards through these casualty lists for the last two nights and am only at page 58! I’m wondering if there is a more expeditious way of going about looking for someone. I’m looking for my grandfather Andrew Clark when he was with the 1st Seaforth #10260 in 1914/15, and a great Uncle James Clark #8284 in 1915/16 when he was with the 9th Seaforth. I found my grandfather in the Scotsman in 1917 when he lost his arm with the 8th Seaforth but can’t find his first wound record. The Uncle I can’t find in any of the Scottish newspapers at all. I had the idea that if I could find one of the original records I might be able to trace their movements through the evacuation process.

Is there somewhere one can look at Battalion casualty lists?

Thanks,

Hazel C.

Hazel

FMP has indexed all the names on these casualty lists and the best way to find them is by searching FMP with the Service Number or surname and initial. By putting in 10260 we get a record for an Andrew Clark (which turns out to be a Silver War Badge Index Card - many mistakes on names in SWB records) and an Alexander Clark who was awarded the MM in 1917 serving with 8 Bn Seaforths. This A Clark is named as Sgt A Clarke in the Routine Orders dated 18/07/1917 of 15 Div A&QMG under Honours and Rewards, with five other Seaforth Highlanders. 

8284 brings up a Pension Record in WO 364 for James Clark of Haddington who enlisted in 1900 age 18 and was wounded by shrapnel in the left arm on 24/07/1915. From his papers he may have been serving with 9 Bn Seaforths who were 9 Div (Pioneer Bn).

There is no record of either being named on a casualty list. These lists appear at random in service or pension records and as re used papers in some medal rolls. 

I'll have another look later.

Brian

Edited 6 May , 2023 by brianmorris547

[brianmorris547]

Dink

Many thanks for the 1916 REs on (EDIT) H 7373. This list escaped me some years ago. I posted 7374 p 30, 7375 p 26 and 7379 p 33.

Brian 

Edited 19 August , 2022 by brianmorris547
typo

[hazelclark]

22 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

Hazel

FMP has indexed all the names on these casualty lists and the best way to find them is by searching FMP with the Service Number or surname and initial. By putting in 10260 we get a record for an Andrew Clark (which turns out to be a Silver War Badge Index Card - many mistakes on names in SWB records) and an Alexander Clark who was awarded the MM in 1917 serving with 8 Bn Seaforths. This A Clark is named as Sgt A Clarke in the Routine Orders dated 18/07/1917 of 15 Div A&QMG under Honours and Rewards, with five other Seaforth Hioghlanders. 

8284 brings up a Pension Record in WO 364 for James Clark of Haddington who enlisted in 1900 age 18 and was wounded by shrapnel in the left arm on 24/07/1915. From his papers he may have been serving with 9 Bn Seaforths who were 9 Div (Pioneer Bn).

There is no record of either being named on a casualty list. These lists appear at random in service or pension records and as re used papers in some medal rolls. 

I'll have another look later.

Brian

Thanks Brian. There was a page missing from the 9th battalion Seaforth for 1915 and the NA sent me the entire diary together with a complete list of their casualties for the war.  I wondered if it was normal practice for each regiment? It had not been with the original diary I had downloaded but just came along with the rest of the diary including the missing page which in fact listed my Uncle as wounded on that day. However, it differs from much of the information you have which often seems to give hospital or CCS info. I think I pretty well have everything available on line regarding both of these men but was trying for more specific wound evacuation.

You have over the years helped me with info about my grandfather. This uncle I knew nothing about until recently when I found his service and pension records.

Thanks again,
Hazel

[Jim Strawbridge]

Thank you, dink999. Another one for me.  791 Dvr. Broughton, A. A.S.C.  I have the 1914 15 star trio to T-791 DVR. A. BROUGHTON. A.S.C. (with oak leaf to victory ribbon).   As an aside I found the enclosed with some paperwork and hope that it helps with your project.

[brianmorris547]

7 hours ago, hazelclark said:

Thanks Brian. There was a page missing from the 9th battalion Seaforth for 1915 and the NA sent me the entire diary together with a complete list of their casualties for the war.  I wondered if it was normal practice for each regiment? It had not been with the original diary I had downloaded but just came along with the rest of the diary including the missing page which in fact listed my Uncle as wounded on that day. However, it differs from much of the information you have which often seems to give hospital or CCS info. I think I pretty well have everything available on line regarding both of these men but was trying for more specific wound evacuation.

You have over the years helped me with info about my grandfather. This uncle I knew nothing about until recently when I found his service and pension records.

Thanks again,
Hazel

I'm confused.com Hazel.

From looking at the Rolls and SWB records I think that 10260 was Alexander Clark MM. His 1914 Medal Roll shows a disembarkation date of 12/10/1914 with 1 Bn and a discharge date of 02/03/1918. The SWB card and SWB Roll for Andrew Clark 10260 also shows a discharge date of 02/03/1918. There are two other Seaforths named Andrew Clark, S/7959 and S/25635. How sure are you that your Andrew was 10260.

Brian

EDIT. S/7959 Andrew Clark was awarded the DCM with 7 Bn Seaforths. LG 31225 12/03/1919. NOK address shown as Edinburgh.

Edited 19 August , 2022 by brianmorris547
additional info

[hazelclark]

1 hour ago, brianmorris547 said:

I'm confused.com Hazel.

From looking at the Rolls and SWB records I think that 10260 was Alexander Clark MM. His 1914 Medal Roll shows a disembarkation date of 12/10/1914 with 1 Bn and a discharge date of 02/03/1918. The SWB card and SWB Roll for Andrew Clark 10260 also shows a discharge date of 02/03/1918. There are two other Seaforths named Andrew Clark, S/7959 and S/25635. How sure are you that your Andrew was 10260.

Brian

EDIT. S/7959 Andrew Clark was awarded the DCM with 7 Bn Seaforths. LG 31225 12/03/1919. NOK address shown as Edinburgh.

Hi Brian,

 I m quite positive that 10260 is my grandfather. The “Alexander”confused me too for a while. I have the battalion diaries and divisional diaries for both the 1st Seaforth with which he was serving in the Debra Dun Brigade when he first landed in France in 1914. Somewhere between October and early 1915 it seems he was wounded. He and my grandmother married in Cromarty in August 1915. I don’t think he went to France again until April of 1917. Think he must have been involved with training at the base. 
 

When he went to France again he was with the 8th Bat. and I have the list from the diary in which he was awarded the MM in July.  I also have a cutting from the “Scotsman” in which there was a short write up about him being awarded the medal for bravery in the field (Gazetted August 1917 )He apparently was one of three brothers also in the army. James and John were the others. Also, it was rather serendipitous that a Forum member told me about a Diary by an officer named Turing who was involved in the raid for which my grandfather was awarded. When I was home one time I went to Fort George and copied it. One of the reasons I have pursued this wound business is an attempt to find in which Company he served.

He then lost his arm after lying in no man’s for three days after being wounded on July 31st.  It would be neat to track that trip. All I know from my grandmother was that the first she knew was that he was in a convalescent hospital in Orpington. 
 

This is all down to sleuthing with a LOT of help from Forum members as my grandparents parted company in 1925 and my grandmothers family wouldn’t allow contact.

I’m sure you didn’t need to know all this but I really feel confident about which Man was my grandfather. My grandmother did know about the M.M. All the Edinburgh Andrew Clarks threw out many many red herrings as did the 1911 census in India.

Didn’t mean to write a book!

Hazel

[dink999]

H7390 different from id 211, id 496 and id 5214

 

2 H7391 lists, different from id 549, id 2735, id 4553 and id 5143

 

H7392

 

3 H7394 lists all different from id 547 & id 5230

 

H7395 different from id 151, id 551 & id 3557

 

H7397

 

H7398, @brianmorris547 may have posted this RE list without the number. Lightening the image shows it to be H7398 but then you cannot see most of the other text.

 

[dink999]

H7401 different from id 433 on page 24

 

H7404 different from id 565 on page 32

 

2 H74113 lists

 

H7414 a clearer image of id 445 on page 25

 

H7416 different from id 404 & id 5423

 

H7420

 

H7429

 

H7433 different from id 3579 on page 54

 

[brianmorris547]

Dave

I did post the above Lists H 7394 and H 7395 showing the RE names on p 31. They are the same. Can you tell me on which page I may have posted H 7398. 

I no longer have my index of RE names on these 1916 lists. I confined my RE research to the men, like my gf, who enlisted into the County Palatine RE (30 Div) but did not go to France in November 1915. Some 200 were kept back at Larkhill as reserves. I like to look at any new lists to check for CPRE numbers.

Brian

[dink999]

1 hour ago, brianmorris547 said:

I did post the above Lists H 7394 and H 7395 showing the RE names on p 31. They are the same. Can you tell me on which page I may have posted H 7398. 

Brian, I think I assumed that you had posted this RE list and not noted the prefix & number as it was virtually unreadable in its original form. If it was posted by you it would have been in the page range 20-30 which is where I was checking most of the ones I posted earlier against those that had already been posted and listed on David's database.

Dave. 

[brianmorris547]

Dave

I remembered the name Batham, because of an excellent pint I once had in Dudley. I did post this on 25/05/2018. It is on the Partial Casualty List thread in Soldiers. This thread used to be called Royal Engineers Sick and Wounded 1916. I started it so that the main thread could be for lists we could identify by number.

Cheers

Brian

[brianmorris547]

23 hours ago, hazelclark said:

Hi Brian,

 I m quite positive that 10260 is my grandfather. The “Alexander”confused me too for a while. I have the battalion diaries and divisional diaries for both the 1st Seaforth with which he was serving in the Debra Dun Brigade when he first landed in France in 1914. Somewhere between October and early 1915 it seems he was wounded. He and my grandmother married in Cromarty in August 1915. I don’t think he went to France again until April of 1917. Think he must have been involved with training at the base.

Hazel

I thought that the most likely place to look for a record of the wound was in the Times Official Casualty Lists that reflect the 105 wounded that the Bn had at Neuve Chapelle, 10 to 13/03/1915. I can not find a list in the Times and I have checked from 01/04/1915 to 15/05/1915. There are some other 1 Bn names in various lists e.g Hutcheson 104440 J (OCL 26/04/1915) and Buchanan 5333 J (OCL 15/05/1915). 

McKee 6767 G is also on the 15/05/1915 OCL and he has papers to show that he was wounded on 22/04/1915.

J Buchanan is on this list 20697 and J Hutchison is on this list 21095.

Stiletto posted some corrections to 20697 on p 21 and TEW posted some corrections to 21095 on p 65. 

I will keep looking for the OCL that shows the 1 Bn wounded at Neuve Chapelle and go even further back if necessary.

Brian

Edited 20 August , 2022 by brianmorris547
typo

[hazelclark]

15 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

Hazel

I thought that the most likely place to look for a record of the wound was in the Times Official Casualty Lists that reflect the 105 wounded that the Bn had at Neuve Chapelle, 10 to 13/03/1915. I can not find a list in the Times and I have checked from 01/04/1915 to 15/05/1915. There are some other 1 Bn names in various lists e.g Hutcheson 104440 J (OCL 26/04/1915) and Buchanan 5333 J (OCL 15/05/1915). 

McKee 6767 G is also on the 15/05/1915 OCL and he has papers to show that he was wounded on 22/04/1915.

J Buchanan is on this list 20697 and J Hutchison is on this list 21095.

Stiletto posted some corrections to 20697 on p 21 and TEW posted some corrections to 21095 on p 65. 

I will keep looking for the OCL that shows the 1 Bn wounded at Neuve Chapelle and go even further back if necessary.

Brian

That is extremely kind of you Brian. I have tried following up others in same Bat. but didn’t get anywhere.
Thanks,

Hazel

 

 

[dink999]

H7437 diffreent from id 1810  on page 46

 

H7438 different from id 511 on page 29

 

2 H7452 lists different from id 456 (page 26) & id 3952 (page 56)

 

H7457

 

H7460

 

H7461

 

H7465

 

H7467

 

H7468

[dink999]

H7634

 

H7473

 

H7476 different from id 3556 on page 54

 

H7477

 

H7482

 

H7486

 

H7488

 

H7499

 

H8133 different from id 2964 on page 50

 

H8237

 

[brianmorris547]

14 hours ago, hazelclark said:

That is extremely kind of you Brian. I have tried following up others in same Bat. but didn’t get anywhere.
Thanks,

Hazel

 

 

I have seen lists in the 1915 Times which are shown as lists from earlier in the year not previously published. He is probably on one of those. I will keep looking as I am checking 1915 Gallipoli lists.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

HB 8314 not on the July index.

[hazelclark]

9 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

I have seen lists in the 1915 Times which are shown as lists from earlier in the year not previously published. He is probably on one of those. I will keep looking as I am checking 1915 Gallipoli lists.

Brian

Thanks Brian. Sometimes I think that I have reached the end of the trail with my family’s military history and another door will open.

Because I am finally going to the Western Front next year(world events permitting) my interest has again been perked up. In reading I have always concentrated on the Ypres area and the last year of the war but now I becoming more interested in the Somme.

H

[dink999]

H8274

 

H8333

 

H8756

 

H9024

 

H9040

 

2 H9088 lists. The 1st one is confirmed by the records of 132385 Harling with a date of 26 May 1916 which @brianmorris547 may have posted as a partial list

 

H9103

 

H9159 different from id 1959 on page 47

 

H9232

 

H9241

[dink999]

H9413

 

H9421

 

H9462

 

H9217

[brianmorris547]

Re H 9088. I did post the RE partial list on 07/07/2016 (p 23) and also dated it to May 1916. It shows the name of 81720 Spr H Wormwell who, like my gf, enlisted into the County Palatine RE but has no 1914-15 Star. He was swallowed up into the system and ended up at 126 FC, most likely via 4 General Base Depot RE Rouen. I have it in my CPRE records.

Brian 

[Jim Strawbridge]

Thank you, dink999. Another one for me. A 307 Pte. Palmer, T.A. K.R.R.C.  I have the victory medal to A-307 PTE. T.A. PALMER. K.R. RIF.C.

[brianmorris547]

22 hours ago, hazelclark said:

Thanks Brian. Sometimes I think that I have reached the end of the trail with my family’s military history and another door will open.

Because I am finally going to the Western Front next year(world events permitting) my interest has again been perked up. In reading I have always concentrated on the Ypres area and the last year of the war but now I becoming more interested in the Somme.

H

Hazel

A list of over ninety wounded from 1 Bn Seaforth Highlanders in the Times OCL 05/06/1915. No A Clark unfortunately so I will press on. 

Allan 600 J on the OCL is on this list 20697 and Brand 2284 J on the OCL is on this list 20687. Also on the OCL is Campbell 186 A who is Alexander Campbell from Dundee. He has papers which record that he was wounded on 09/05/1915.

On Saturday I posted a continuation to 20697 and on 07/03/2022, p 61, I posted a continuation to 20687.

[David26]

Just to let you know that I have just posted an updated version of the index of all of these lists here:

Casualty Lists - an index - Other Great War Chat - The Great War (1914-1918) Forum (greatwarforum.org)

David.

 

[hazelclark]

2 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

Hazel

A list of over ninety wounded from 1 Bn Seaforth Highlanders in the Times OCL 05/06/1915. No A Clark unfortunately so I will press on. 

Allan 600 J on the OCL is on this list 20697 and Brand 2284 J on the OCL is on this list 20687. Also on the OCL is Campbell 186 A who is Alexander Campbell from Dundee. He has papers which record that he was wounded on 09/05/1915.

On Saturday I posted a continuation to 20697 and on 07/03/2022, p 61, I posted a continuation to 20687.

I guess the problem is that the 1st Bat. arrived in Marseille in October 1914 so the fact is that I’m afraid he could have been wounded any time from then on. I’m assuming he would have spent some time convalescing after that but until the marriage in August 1915 in Cromarty it is a blank sheet.  In fact I have all the diaries relating to the Meerut Division and the Dehra Dunn Brigade as well as the Bat. Diaries but no clues. Interestingly, the Bn. Diary for Dec. 1914 is missing. The N.A. found me a missing PAGE  for the 9th Bn. so will ask if they have it.  I was able to get a fair bit of info. relating to his 8th Bat. experience but nothing from 1st Bn. other than medals and Census info. from India. I also have a lot of Bn. and Co. photographs from India which must contain his photograph but since none of us know what he looked like………

Thanks again,

Hazel