The Buffs Database is complete

[sitsinthestands]

Your database sounds amazing. I wonder if you have any information about my great uncle. This is what I have in addition to the fsct that he is Franvillers Cemetery.

Name: WILLIAMS, Thomas

Regiment, Corps etc.: Buffs (East Kent Regiment)

Battalion etc.: 6th Battalion.

Surname: Williams

Forename(s): Thomas

Initials: T

Birthplace: Llandrillo-yn-rhos, Denbighshire

Enlisted: St. Pancras, Middx.

Residence: Colwyn Bay, Denbighshire, Wales

Rank: PRIVATE

Number: G/1107

Date died: 09 August 1918

How died: Killed in action

Theatre of war: France & Flanders

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Thanks in anticipation

Bryn Jones

[Michael]

Lars. Thanks for the offer of the scans but there's no need to send them because I'll just add a note in the database that they are available.

Darin. Harris was in the Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment, not the Buffs (East Kent Regiment) who I am researching. There are people on the forum far more qualified than me to comment on the West Kents, eg Jonathon Saunders who is doing a similar database to myself. Try sending him a message or reposting your query with 'West Kents' in the title to attract their attention

Mick

[Michael]

Bryn. Your great uncle enlisted in the Buffs as an early volunteer during the first week of September 1914. He was posted to the 8th Battalion but for some reason didn't go overseas with them in 1915. At some stage he transferred to the 6th Battalion.

It would be nice to find his service record because I'd like to know

a - Why did a Welshman choose the East Kent Regiment

b - Why didn't he go overseas until after 1/1/1916

At 17:00 on the 9/8/1918 the 6th Buffs moved off to capture the village of Morlancourt and consolidate on the ridge beyond. The Brigade was preceeded by 7 tanks. The enemy were surprised and despite heavy machine gun fire from Villers Chapel, The Buffs reported that they had reached their objectives and that the enemy were in full retreat at 20:00. The Germans counter attacked at 03:30 the following morning but were beaten back. The Buffs casualties were fairly modest given the success of the attack. Three officers were killed and 11 wounded. Other ranks casualties were 168 including 17 killed.

Do you have any family details of him?

Mick

[sitsinthestands]

Thanks for the extra information, Mick. I have very little information about Thomas. Until last year I didn't even know of his existence. I have a surviving aunt but she was not born until 1923 so has no knowledge of him. The family simply didn't talk about him as was the way then. Thomas was the youngest child in a family of eight. He had two older brothers: William born 1878 and Robert born 1884. I don't know what they did in WW1.

Thomas was born in Colwyn Bay in 1890. At the time, the family were living at Scarisbrick House on Abergele Road. This was about the time when Colwyn Bay started to blossom as a fashionable resort. By 1901 they had moved to a new house in Grove Park. Thomas' father was William Williams and was born in 1846 and died in 1894. Before moving to Colwyn Bay "town" where he worked as a carter, William farmed at Llwydcoed Isaf just to the south of Colwyn Bay. He had previously been a gardener on the Bodnant Estate. William was the younger brother of Thomas Williams of Gorsedd Grucyn near Llanrwst who achieved a degree of fame in the area. You can find out much about him at www.melin-y-coed.co.uk

[LarsA]

Mick,

I have just found out that Pte Bartlett of the 1/5th along with a number of others was attached to to 1st Duke of Wellington's Regiment (West Riding.

Thanks again for your help!

/Lars

[AndrewBelsey]

Mick,

I've held off for a while and hope you're not too bogged down with replies? I have a number of relatives who were with the Buffs. (Not surprising coming from East Kent!) Do you have anything on the following -

33915 Pte Alon Francis Belsey, 2nd Batt, Buffs

25305 Pte Sidney H Barham, Buffs

2253 & 6257 Pte RCS Burgess, Buffs

L/8522 Sgt John R Bones, 2nd Batt (& 1st Batt?) Buffs (Became Coy Sgt Maj & got MM.)

G/4926 Pte Walter Bones, 2nd Batt, Buffs (Died of wounds 31 May 1915)

Thanks,

Andy

[Michael]

Andy

Belsey. Could this be AF Belsey L8995? He is the only AF Belsey on the database. If so, he joined the Buffs in Nov 1908. During WW1 he was in the 2nd Bn, going overseas with them on 17/1/1915. In 1917 he was recorded as a POW in Soltau. He was discharged to the reserve on 6/3/1919.

Barham. He was transferred to the Army Service Corps so I don't have any Buffs Battalion details. He was a 1917 entry to the Buffs (MID December I think). It looks like he was one a batch of 18 year olds who were transferred from the 98th Training Reserve Bn.

Burgess. A late Aug/early Sept 1914 4th (and later 5th) Battalion Territorial who arrived in Aden on 5/8/1915. He was disembodied on 25/4/1919.

JR Bones. Joined The Buffs in June 1907. Went overseas with the 2nd Buffs on 17/1/1915 and later transferred to the 1st Bn. Continued to serve after WW1 and was renumbered 6278102. His MM was gazetted on 1/5/1919 as a CSM in the 1st Battalion. He was from Chilham.

WJ Bones. Joined the Buffs in early December 1914. He went overseas to join the 2nd Battalion on 12/5/1915 and died of wounds 19 days later.

Do you have any family details for the database?

Mick

[John Butt]

Mick,

I am still digging into the Sandwell family from Thanet. I would be grateful for any information that you might have. I might then be able to match up some old photographs.

Here's hopoing!

John

[Michael]

John

Would this be Stephen Jethro and Victor?

Mick

[AndrewBelsey]

Mick,

RE. Belsey, Bones, Burgess, Barham

I cannot THANK YOU enough for the information that you have given me. You have created a marvelous resourse. I have short histories of some of them that I can send you and photos of most of them. I will update my histories with the new information. PM me with an email address that I can send to you.

THANK YOU again,

Andy

[John Butt]

John

Would this be Stephen Jethro and Victor?

Mick

Victor is definitely one of ours. We haven't been able to make a connection with Stephen Jethro's side yet but the info would be useful.

We have a phot of Victor and other male members of the family - Victor is now in the Royal Irish Rifles but the others look as though they are in the Buffs but could be in reserves, we don't have enough info.

Having moved my mother from Cornwall to Kent I've been sorting through old boxes and have come across boxes of postcards sent from Victor and others to his sister, my grandmother. In due course I'll scan them and let you have copies if you like.

Thanks

John

[Michael]

Andy, you're welcome. I will send you a message with my email address.

John. Victor's MIC states that his Buffs number was 13535 but Soldiers died says that he was formerly 1630. Both these numbers are vacant in the database so I'm not sure which one is true. Do you have any further details? An approximate enlistment date will help identify the number.

There was also Ernest Edward Sandwell who joined the 4th Buffs at Margate on 14/11/1914. He didn't go overseas and was discharged at Tonbridge being no longer physically fit for war service (CARDIAC DEBILITY) on 30/4/1916. He lived in St Johns Rd Margate.

Mick

[John Butt]

Andy, you're welcome. I will send you a message with my email address.

John. Victor's MIC states that his Buffs number was 13535 but Soldiers died says that he was formerly 1630. Both these numbers are vacant in the database so I'm not sure which one is true. Do you have any further details? An approximate enlistment date will help identify the number.

There was also Ernest Edward Sandwell who joined the 4th Buffs at Margate on 14/11/1914. He didn't go overseas and was discharged at Tonbridge being no longer physically fit for war service (CARDIAC DEBILITY) on 30/4/1916. He lived in St Johns Rd Margate.

Mick

Victor's Medal Index Card has him as Pte 13535 then Royal Irish Rifles 40163. His death certificate has him as L/C 13535 12th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles so a bit confusing really.

Ernest Edward doesn't appear on our tree so he could be the other lot! I'll look into it.

Thanks

John

[Lindsay46]

Hi,

I hope it's ok dropping in out of the blue, but I've just latched onto your thread regarding the Buffs and wonder whether you have anything on a Pvt Benjamin Goldstraw, from Staffs, (14634) who I believe transferred from the York Reg to the 7th Bn. He was KIA on the 26/8/1918 (buried at Quarry Cem, Mountauban). I've only recently started to track him and would be especially interested if you have any pointers on where the 7 Bn may have been around the date of his death. Many thanks.

Lin

[Michael]

Lin

Goldstraw's previous service was as S/4/056337 10th Field Bakery ASC and 33931 13 Bn Yorkshire Regt. He arrived in France on 20/7/15

On 26/8/18 the Battalion were continuing their pust eastwards from Albert. They advanced from south of Mametz Wood to Montauban. By 6pm they were pushing patrols through Montauban and had taken 50 prisoners and 4 MG's. The enemy counterattacked at 7pm but were repulsed. Six men were killed from the Bn and 4 of them are laying next to each other in Quarry Cemetery.

Mick

[Lindsay46]

Hello Mick,

Many thanks for the information, which is very much appreciated.

Lin

[sandiep]

C" Company 29th Training Reserve Battalion The Buffs

I am trying to find the death of my grandmothers first husband which she said was in 1918,

the information for his being a Corporal in above battalion comes from a birth certificate in Dec 1916

His name was Richard Walter Howe born 1888 Deptford.

have you any information in your database about the above please

sandie

[Michael]

Sandie

The only reference to this battalion I have seen is the Long Long Trail. To my knowledge the 9th Buffs were originally formed as a New Army battalion but ended up as a draft finding unit. It became the 52nd Battalion of the Queen' RWS in July 1917. If you ever find his service record I would be very interested to see it. The fact that both Chris and yourself have references to the 29th TR Bn must mean that it has some attachment to The Buffs but as I say, there is no reference to it in my collection. There are 2 men on the database who served with the Buffs then the 29th TR Bn. They were both given different numbers on their transfer.

I have checked the database and there are no Richard Howes who went overseas with the Buffs. There was a Thomas Howe G13983 who transferred to a Training Reserve Battalion and then the RE. I don't suppose there has been a mix up with the forename has there?

Mick

[sandiep]

thank you for looking for me, its a bit of a mystery, the only ref I have to his army service is that one I gave from his sons birth cert.................I dont think that Thomas could be him he was a Richard Walter and I am not aware of him being called anything else except Dick . His occupation was a photographer I dont know if he would use this in the army.

When I can I shall certainly have a look for his service record and send you a copy...........thank you again for looking sandie

[martin barsley]

Mick

seems a fantastic effort. I have only recently started to look at my families involvement in the First War and know how much time this has taken me so far. To do what you have done is quite an achievement.

I am trying to find out more about my Great Uncle, Private Cecil Harry John Barsley, G/15547 A Coy 7th Bn The Buffs. I am shortly going to Arras with some work colleagues and hope to use him as an example to link our group to the memorial. Some additonal information on him would be most gratefully received.

I have found that he died on 3rd May 1917 during the battle of Arras with no know grave. However, it seems he was wounded in December 1916 but I can find no more on that incident.

Anything you can add would be welcome.

Thanks

Martin

[dutchbarge]

Thanks Mick for the excellent achievement. Also thanks again for the extensive information about Lt. Charles William Laing 2/Buffs. Cheers, Bill

[Michael]

Martin

Barsley was formerly in the 2/1st Kent Cyclist Battalion with number 969 but he didn't go overseas with them. He joined the Buffs in September 1916 and only served with the 7th Battalion. He died with A Company. He was born in Midhampstead, Herts; enlisted at Tunbridge Wells and had an address in Walworth when he died

Here is an excerpt from the Regimental History

"While the 6th Battalion of the Buffs was suffering as briefly described above, their brethren of the 7th, on the night of the 2nd/3rd May, were opposite the village of Cherisy preparing for the attack: A and B were the assaulting companies, C the supporting company, and D was in reserve, in shell holes, in rear of the support trench. The Buffs were on the right of their brigade with the 54th Infantry Brigade on their right and the 8th East Surrey on the left. The Royal West Kent supported both Buffs and East Surreys, and the 7th Queen's were brigade reserve. The orders given to our battalion were to advance in conjunction with the 54th Brigade and to capture Keeling Copse.

It must be admitted at once that the attack was a failure, due, in the opinion of all, to the intense dark¬ness at 3.45. The attack of the Buffs and East Surreys was successful in itself, however, and both units showed great dash, but failure on the flanks led to a subsequent retirement, and it is sad to think that, taking part in what Sir Douglas Haig describes as a successful battle, both the brigades in which battalions of the Buffs were serving failed in the part allotted to them. There seems to be no doubt that the front waves reached their objectives, but the 12th Middlesex and 11th Royal Fusiliers, both of the 54th Brigade, failed to get past the wire covering the German front line. Little opposition was experienced at first, but the second and subsequent waves came under very heavy fire, causing their progress to be slow, so that the men who started first were more or less cut off for a time. The Germans, being unable to reinforce in masses owing to our guns, dribbled up men from their rear in very small parties. As regards details of the Buffs' advance: all companies of the battalion got clear of the front trench before the enemy's barrage commenced, but, owing to the dark¬ness, sections, platoons and companies soon got mingled up together and at one time part of the Middlesex be¬longing to the 54th Brigade came across the Buffs' front in the dark, but the error was skilfully rectified.

At the first glimpse of dawn the village of Cherisy was reached and passed through. As it was entered the right company had touch with the Middlesex, but on reaching the bed of the Sensee river, which is just be¬yond, its officer, Captain Black, discovered that this touch was lost and that the flank was in the air, though the other was in proper prolongation of its left-hand neighbouring company. He therefore determined to halt and form a defensive flank along the road which runs south-east from the village across the stream. Be-fore this could be done he was heavily attacked, and the message he sent back to that effect failed to get through.

Meanwhile the left assaulting company, reinforced by portions of C and in touch with the East Surreys, gained the first objective, or Blue Line. D Company had halted, according to order, in what was called the " Cable " trench, which was perfectly straight and which was found to be occupied at its right extremity by a considerable number of the enemy, some of whom the company destroyed or captured, together with a machine gun. However, the Germans still held one end and a bomb-stop had to be constructed and an attempt made to progress down the trench; but it was not until a Stokes gun was brought up that any progress was made, the work being deep, narrow and difficult to bomb. Thus the situation at 9 a.m. was that Captain Black's company (A) on the right was still open to assault and unable to move, thus causing the left, which had gained certain advantages, to lose ground for want of the support expected from the Middlesex battalion, while the reserve company was still struggling for pos¬session of " Cable " trench, and B and C Companies had both fought their way to the Sensee river.

A little afterwards came an order that the Buffs and East Surreys were to advance to the Red Line, the West Kents to consolidate the Blue Line. About 11 o'clock reports came that a general retirement was taking place, and the enemy established an intense bombardment of our front line and back area. " Cable " trench was now full of men in addition to D Company, who had not yet been able to emerge from the trench; but our own rescuing people were hopelessly intermingled with the enemy, so that it was impossible to open fire. The Englishmen, however, who passed over and beyond the trench in their retirement, were soon rallied and brought back to the original lines, so that in half an hour or so the situation was well in hand, though " Cable " trench had been evacuated. An attempt was made at 7.15 p.m. to retake this, the assaulting battalion being the Queen's supported by the Buffs, but the hostile machine-gun and rifle fire was too much and the attack failed. The Queen's fell back and the Buffs occu¬pied the original front-line trenches for the night, having suffered a casualty list of 2 officers killed, 6 wounded and 4 missing; 25 other ranks killed, 169 wounded and 174 missing."

Here is a picture looking from Cherisy towards the position that A Company held when they found themselves cut off.

and here is view from Cherry Bridge on the Sensee towards Cherisy ie the view that A Company had

Mick

[sylvie sillince]

Hi Michael

I was on site looking for information on my grandfather's transfer to the Labour Corp when I came across your labour of love!

What an acheivement!

I have the MRI and have consulted the Roll Books at TNA regarding my grandfather but if there is any other information I would love it. I don't think his records survived the bomb!

Henry Brown Pte 2nd Bedf R. 3/6553. France October 1914. (Joined Buffs about 1907 so presumable in reserves when war broke out). ? transferred to 3rd Reg at some stage, maybe temporarily.

His MRI also shows a Labour Corp number 561906.

I would be grateful for any information

Thank you

Sylvie

[Michael]

Sylvie

Sorry to disappoint but The Buffs were The East Kent Regiment. Henry Brown was in the Bedfordshire Regiment.

Mick

[sylvie sillince]

Sorry Michael - blame my Aunt who said her father was in the Buffs and then the Herts and Buffs.

I am now even more confused but thanks for the info.

Sylvie