The Buffs Database is complete

[jim_davies]

Mick,

Fantastic job.

Jim

[Michael]

There were 3 Reginald Baileys

One was a regular who transferred to the MGC so its unlikely to be him

The second was a New Army man with the 6th and 8th Battalions so no service in India

The third was Reginald Alfred who was with the 4th Battalion. He arrived in Gallipoli with the Kent Composite Battalion on 18/7/1915 and then served with the 4th Battalion in India. His number was T507 indicating a number allocation to the 4th Battalion in 1908 or 1909 (can't get closer I'm afraid at the moment). He went overseas as a Sergeant and was allocated number 200043 during the 1917 renumbering exercise. He was awarded the India General Service Medal with clasp "Afghanistan, North West Frontier, 1919" and discharged on 31/3/1920

Mick

[Michael]

Neil

Arnell joined the Buffs at Chichester on 14/10/1902 aged 18 yrs 5 months. He was born at St Pancras, Chichester, Sussex. He was a brickmaker

He stood just under 5ft 4ins and weighed 122lbs and was posted to the 2nd Bn.

He was discharged early to reserve on 9/2/05

He received a shell wound to the scalp on 3/3/1915 and was sent home on 6/3/1915. On return to France on 26/5/1915 he joined the 2nd Buffs.

He was with A Company when he went missing on 28/9/1915.

He was married in 1907 and widowed in 1909. His daughter Nellie (born 1907) was living in a Franciscan Convent in Littlehampton under the guardianship of Mrs Dorothy May Drewitt of Drayton House in Chichester . She was to hold onto his medals until Nellie was old enough to appreciate their value. His Mother made a claim to the medals but was told by the war office that she was not entitled to them. He had 2 brothers Walter and Richard.

One last thing - he was in hospital in Dover 19/11/04 to 19/12/04 with Gonorrhoea (sic)

Mick

[Repulse]

Thanks Mick !

I remember now, it was Reginal Alfred. I will pass this on to my mother who will be interested to know.

Excellent !

[Neil Clark]

Mick,

I just returned from Gambia working and came across this thread. Sorry to have missed it nearer the time of posting.

It's up to you what you do with the database but in my humble opinion you should consider placing it on the web for all and sundry to view and use. If it was me I wouldn't try to make money from it but that's your decision. Although I think the database is an important step forward from the Buffs point of view, it's unlikely you will ever make much money marketing a database like this. I would guess that you never intended to make money from the project anyway?

My work together with Dave Hughes and Kyle Tallett's is available to all and sundry online. It contains 6GB of research which has taken the 3 of us 5 years to complete. I derive an enormous degree of satisfaction knowing that ALL the work is available to anyone completely free of charge or obligation.

The worst thing to do would in my opinion would be to do nothing with it... Now that would be criminal.

You are always more than welcome to use kentfallen for ANY purpose? It's quite easy to design and set up your own website although it takes time to get it listed by the major search engines etc...

Whatever you choose to do with it, I wish you well...

Well done!

Neil

[Paul Nixon]

There were 3 Reginald Baileys

His number was T507 indicating a number allocation to the 4th Battalion in 1908 or 1909 (can't get closer I'm afraid at the moment).

Mick

Mick, it would have been 1908, pre November.

[gateway]

Mick,

Congratulation on the completion of your database. It's a tremendous achievement. Could I ask you to do a lookup please?

Sgt. Arthur William North, S/582, The Buffs (East Kent Regiment) Died: 04/06/1915.

Regards,

Tom

[WhiteWolf]

Mike

First off congratulations on your achievement, just means I still have a lot of work to do

Can I ask, have you got any other information regarding:

Towers William

Sergeant / 2nd Lieutenant

15/907

The 15th (Service) Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment

29/01/1918 Commissioned in to the East Kent Regiment as a Second Lieutenant

Thanks in advance

Andy

[Black Watch]

Neil

One last thing - he was in hospital in Dover 19/11/04 to 19/12/04 with Gonorrhoea (sic)

Mick

Thanks Mick, fascinating stuff. (BTW sic should be spelt sick

He seems to have had an eventful war.

[Hett65]

Mick

Well done on the database. I have two men who served with the East Kent Regiment.

1. John William Bryant A/C/Sjt G1168 who was awarded a 15 Star trio, entered France 7.10.1915.

2. John McAllister L/Cpl G6912 3rd Batt who also served with the RGA before transferring to East Kent Regiment. Served as a drill instructor at Citadel Barracks, Dover for 20 months then posted to A Coy 1/4th Batt, Multan, Punjab, India. Possible only entitled to BWM, do you have any information on this man.

I have the history of both men, (1) Durham policeman (2) Northumberland policeman. Would you like the history I have on the above men to add to your files.

John

[stiletto_33853]

Mick,

Not sure if these are any use to you, but digging through a few of the casualty lists that have cropped up in soldiers records a couple of Buffs have popped up, might be useful for your database, who knows.

8354, Pte., Powell, W.L., 3rd att'd 6th East Kents

Sick, admitted Kent Nursing Inst., Tunbridge Wells 20/6/16

List H.B. 7284

7598, Pte. Orford, A., 1st East Kents,

Boronchitis, transfered to England 1/5/15.

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

One more for you

203144, Pte. O'Hara, A.E.V., 8th East Kents

Sick

Admitted Mil. Hos. Old Park, Canterbury 2/8/17

List H.B. 7284

Andy

[Michael]

Paul

Thanks for the correction. I haven't got to grips with TF enlistment dates yet.

Tom

AW North. He was a Special Reservist who joined the Buffs in the 3rd week of September 1914. A lot of the SR men who joined after the war started were ex regulars who wanted to do their bit. Some were given terms that meant that they were for home service only (I make this comment for the Buffs only - other units may have had different arrangements !). North didn't go overseas and may have been in this class. He died of heart failure on 4/6/1915. He was born in Longford, Ireland. He previously served with the Buffs with service number L2872 meaning that he joined sometime in 1889. He was entitled to the India Medal with clasps Chitral (Private) and Punjab Frontier 1897-98 (Lance Corporal). He was awarded the Long Service Medal on 1/7/1907 (Sergeant).

Leeds Andy

I think we've spoken about Towers before. I haven't any other info other than that he was awarded the BWM/VM and that on 20th June 1918, four patrols were sent to try and identify the German units in front of them at Aveluy Wood following an artillery bombardment. The bombardment had missed several German positions which opened up heavy machine gun fire on the Buffs. One officer and four other ranks were killed. Towers and nine men were wounded.

John

Bryant JW. He joined the Buffs on 7/9/1914. He went overseas to join the 8th Buffs as an acting sergeant on 7/10/1915. He was discharged para 392 on 28/11/1917. My records show that he was then commissioned into the 4th Buffs on 19/12/1917 but I doubt if he went overseas with them.

McAllister J. He joined The Buffs in Oct 1914 (I think - this is a tricky set of numbers in late 1914) He joined the 4th Buffs as Private and ended up as a Lance Corporal. He was only awarded the BWM which was returned and it appears to have been reissued in 1923.

Yes I would be very interested in their police history.

Andy P

Thanks for the details - every scrap is valuable. I will add them to the database.

Mick

[WhiteWolf]

Hi Mick

Yes we had spoken before (mind like a sieve), if I had a brain that worked I would a threat to the known world.

Thanks again for the info.

Regards

Andy

[the brainless one]

[Hett65]

Mick

John McAllister L/Cpl G6912 East Kent Regiment

Born 20.12.1892 at Cambois, Bedlington, Northumberland. Lived 14 1/2 (yes fourteen and a half)

Sinkers Row, Cambois. Left school at 13 years of age and worked at the local mine as a trapper below ground then as a labourer on bank, his father was a chargeman at the same mine. When he applied to join the police he was a single man, 6'1 in height, occupation miner at Cambois Colliery.

Appointed Northumberland County Constabulary 21.10.1912 as 3rd class PC165. Served Wallsend and Broomhill.

By his Army Form Z18 on his file he did not join the army until 13.4.1915, you thought he joined late 1914. Enlisted into RGA and on 28.5.1915 transfered to the 3rd Battalion, East Kent Regiment as drill instructor for 20 months at Citadel Barracks, Dover, Kent. Then posted as Acting Serjeant to A Coy 1/4th Battalion, Multan, Punjab, India.

14.4.1919 Returned to police service stationed Wallsend.

2.11.1919 Married Doris Wilson of 11 Vine Street, Wallsend

8.10.1934 Promoted Sergeant to Broomhill living above the police station

12.2.1940 Commended at Durham Crown Court for the manner in which he gave evidence in the case of a fatal accident at Broomhill on 6.3.1939

24.1.1947 Retired on pension

28.5.1947 Moved from the police station at Broomhill to 188 Disraeli Street, Blyth

1950 Married Bessie Margaret Dunn, Albert House, Haydon Bridge (Not known what happened to 1st wife)

24.3.1961 Died at Blyth and cremated at Cowpen on 2.4.1961

John William Bryant A/C/Sjt G1168

His police file records him as having served in the East Kent Regiment, although there is no form Z18 on file. The date on his police file is that he joined HMF 30.6.1915 but your records have him as joining on 7.9.1914, I just wonder whether we have the same man or there were two Bryants serving.

John

[Simon Jones]

Mick

Can I ask you about men transferred from the Buffs that I have on my database of tunnellers in 179th and 185th Tunnelling Companies? I have had some success in reconstructing drafts from infantry units into the tunnelling companies using the RE numbers. Can you confirm any battalions for these men? The men are usually miners and I am trying to confirm whether they were from the Kent coalfields.

The following two men were KiA with 185 Tunnelling Coy:

Stone, C T, Spr 79099 (E Kent G/9291)

Crawford, William, Spr 79100 (E Kent 6922)

I believe that these three men were also transferred to 185th Coy at the same time as they have adjacent RE numbers:

Greener, Robert, Spr 79101 (E Kent 6928)

Heslop, Robert H, Spr 79102 (E Kent 6565)

Robinson, Charles, Spr 79103 (E Kent S/10719)

This man was recorded as wounded in the War Diary of 179th Tunnelling Coy 31/12/1915 (the MIC apparently shows him as with 174th Tunnelling Coy):

Adams, George C, Spr 86193 (E Kent S/9990).

These two men were possibly also transferred to 179th Coy as the same time as they have adjacent RE numbers:

Black, Edward, Spr 86194 ( E Kent S/10148).

Pittman (or Pettman), Robert, A/Sgt 86195 (E Kents SR/178).

Also I am particularly interested in (and may have asked you before):

Dunn, Thomas, Spr 139467 (E Kent 1955). SWB N/309672. Enlists 8/9/14 Disch. 6/3/19, through sickness.

I may have asked you about Dunn before, he is involved in the story of ‘Sapper Dorothy Lawrence’ and is mentioned in her book as he helped her to live in Albert for ten days in September 1915.

I assume he is 7th Bn from his date overseas. He was apparently a Lancashire miner but I don’t know whether he was working in the Kent coalfield when he joined. I note that an adjacent Buffs number was born Wigan and enlisted Woolwich:

Cranston, William Thompson Sgt G/1959 (KiA 3/5/17). Was there a batch of men from Lancashire in 7th Bn?

Many thanks for anything you have.

Simon

[Michael]

John

Thanks for the very valuable extra info. I stand corrected on McAllister's enlistment date but I am sure that Bryant's is correct.

Simon

I will do some work on your men over the next few days

Mick

[eyman]

Mick

Congratulations on your labour of love - you must find a way to make it available to researchers and others. Might I ask if there are any Essex Yeomen listed in it, to assist my researches? I can't immediately recall anyone who served with the Buffs but it is not impossible that some did so.

Happy to have a reply by private message or by email to exyeoman@yahoo.co.uk

Many thanks

Ian

[grantowi]

Mick,

Well done on "finishing", incentive for the rest of use :-(

Heres one for your list

Grant

Surname Hurst

Name William James

Number L/6553

Rank Corp

Batt 2nd

Reg Buffs""East Kent R"

Dod 11/05/1915

Trade (GWR) Labourer

Shop (GWR) No 1

Dept (GWR) Loco/Carr

Service (GWR) 3mt

Enlisted Ramsgate, Kent

Born Garlinge, Margate, Kent

Note "Kia at ""Hill 60"""

Memorial YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL Panel 12 and 14. -1

[Michael]

Ian

Only one from the Essex Yeomanry. Private DA Williams with Buffs number 265307 (post 1917 TF). He was transferred from the 1/1 Battalion Essex Yeomanry where he had number 1580. He enlisted on 6/11/1914 and was discharged with wounds on 1/2/1919 aged 28 from the Buffs Depot. I don't think he went overseas with the Buffs.

Grant

I have a liitle more info for you on Hurst. He arrived in France with the 2nd Buffs on 2/5/1915, only 9 days before he died. He either joined them on 4/5/1915 or 8/5/1915 at Poperinghe. He joined the Buffs in March 1901. They moved to take over a portion of advanced trench line south of Verlorenhoek on the Zonnebeke Road on 10/5/1915 at 10pm (Not Hill 60). They found the trenches to be in a poor state, the parapet much blown in by shell fire. They were ordered to hold onto the trenches at all costs. On the 11th they were shelled intermittently and Hurst was killed along with three others.

I notice that he had an address in Kent when he died. I wonder how he managed to work on the GWR.

Mick

[Marc Thompson]

Mick,

Late on to this thread so apologies. Just wanted to say 'well done' - I know exactly how much work you must have put in.

Marc

[grantowi]

Mick,

Thanks for the extra info.

The address might have been his parents, he was only at Swindon for 3 months before he joined up

Grant

[Michael]

Cheers Marc

I uncovered only 12 men from the Hampshire Regiment in the Buffs BWM/VM Roll. If you send me your email address I'll forward them to you.

[John Garnett]

Mick,

I am nearly ready to publish my website for the Sturry Memorial. One of the men I have little information about is Charles Henry Jones, G/9590, 6th Buffs, died Friday 4th August 1916.

Any more info would be well received.

Thanks,

John

[Michael]

Simon

Because the men transferred out of the Buffs I don't have them on my rolls. I can help with enlistment dates if you want them. BUT I am about to give you a headache! Charles Thomas Stone was not killed in action. He enlisted with the Buffs on 30/11/1914 with number G4846. He went to France to join the 1st Bn on 1/4/1915. He transferred to the RE as a tunneller on 9/10/15 and his civilian trade was noted as miner. However, in January 1916 it was noted that he had flat feet and debility. The debility was deemed to make him unfit for a tunnelling company. He agreed to a transfer back to the Buffs and he rejoined them when he got back to the UK on 14/2/1916. He was discharged on 23/9/1916.

I'm not aware of any batches of men coming from Lancashire but that's not to say that there wasn't any. I'm always a bit wary of assuming a Battalion by the date of proceeding overseas. However Dunn's number does fit with the 7th Buffs and if he went overseas on 28/7/1915 then you are probably correct to assume he was with the 7th. I don't recall looking at Dunn before but his story looks interesting. Can you tell me about Sapper Dorothy Lawrence please - I'm intrigued.

John

I look forward to the website, please keep me posted with the address. Jones joined The Buffs in the last week of March 1916 although he may have been a Derby Scheme man who had been on reserve for a few months before being mobilised. He died during the succesful attack on Ration Trench (between Thiepval and Pozieres) over the night of 3/4 August 1916 so he won't have been in France for long. This attack was in stark contrast to their debacle at Ovillers a month before. The artillery barrage was better and they used the fire and movement tactics that they had trained for since July 3rd. If you want more info on the attack let me know. I'd also be happy to help with any other Buffs you have on your memorial.

Mick