The Buffs Database is complete

[Michael]

Brian

Unfortunately I have drawn a complete blank. He doesn't appear in any of the Boer War or WW1 medal rolls. Neither is he in any of the Indian medal rolls for the period. I would suggest contacting Jonathon Saunders who studies the QORWK.

Mick

[Guest hollowayranger]

Cheers will give it a go like i say herberts a blooming nightmare to find even his wife was tough to track down born elle kathrine shepherd married a livingstone then ran away to become hettie dawkins before marriying herbert and becoming finally a robertson!

i think my best bet will be to try and track down all the winners of dcm's in boer war or/and winners of a bar in ww1 then which ever one doesnt have a history before the wars or after might just be the one ...think that makes sense!

thanks again for checking

[huytonhoofer]

Hello Michael

I wonder if you could help with the following soldier.

206185 Pte Joseph Crooks, 6th East Kent Reg.

Formerly L/Cpl 2047 5th Durham Light Infantry.

This chap has proved enigmatic in attempts to pin him down to a specific location. He is named on our local war memorial Coxhoe & District war memorial, Co Durham, although spelt "Crookes", we have little information that places him in or around our village.

Reports in a local newspaper suggest he died of his wounds in a hospital in Southern England. His MIC lists him as KIA 27/8/1918.

Could this be our man? Do you have anything that would corrobrate what we already know or think we know about him?

Many thanks

Jack

[Droocoo]

Good work Mick. I'm in favour of an online database, which can always be edited.

[malangston]

Stephen Langston

We spoke some time ago and you gave me some information but you said at the time you couldn't be completely sure, you would need when he was captured.

I have since received this from the Red Cross.

The other question I have any ideas why as his death certificate said died in germany but the place of death is St Amand, which I believe in south west of Arras.

Cheers

Mike Langston

ATTESTATION

The International Committee of the Red Cross has received the following information:

Name, first name: LANGSTON Stephen

Date of Birth: 4.10.1882 or 4.10.1884

Place of Birth: Margate

Rank: Private

Unit: 6th East KEnt Comp. C. or 6th Buffs

Service Number: 92

Date and place of capture: 30.11.1917 at Cambrai

Place of internment

Prisoner of War in German hand, present in the camp Dulmen coming from Le Quesnoy (according to a list dated 17.12.1917)

Present in the camp Friedrichsfeld coming from the camp Dulmen (according to a list dated 6.4.1918 and 21.5.1918

Date and place of death Dead on 10.4.1918 at St Amand (according to a list dated 21.6.1918)

From: Three lists from the German authorities

[Michael]

Jack

This is the info I have on Crooks;

Born in Sunderland, lived in Wallsend-on-Tyne.

Originally overseas as 2047 1/5th Battalion DLI. Overseas with them on 10/7/1915.

Transferred to Buffs with service number 206158. This would have been after the change to 6 figure numbers in 1917

Served with 6th Battalion Buffs.

Killed in action 27/8/1918 along with 10 others during a succesful attack on Carnoy. Maricourt and Hardecourt.

Buried at Peronne Road Cemetery, grave IID13

1914/15 Star returned having been found by the police

Malangston

Thanks for the extra info on Langston. This is the first I have heard from the Red Cross. How long did they take to respond and did they charge for the info?

I've no idea why there is the contradiction on place of death but having looked at the CWGC details of the cemetery it looks like burials were concentrated from the Arras area after the war. It does seem strange that he was held as a POW in Germany and buried near Arras.

Can I suggest that you contact Terry Denham on this forum who is a CWGC expert. I would be interested to know what he says.

Mick

[huytonhoofer]

Thanks Mick.

The information helps and confirms that he may well be our man.

Jack

[friartuck]

Hi Mick,

Congratulations on completing the database.

If he appears within it, I would very much appreciate any information you can supply about G/5338, Corporal, Ernest Charles Tuck, 8th (Service) Battalion, East Kent’s.

Kindest regards,

Stephen.

[shorncliffe]

Hi Mick

On page 421 of Historical records of the Buffs 1914 -1919 it gives the names of those men who were still serving with the 1st battalion at the end of the war who were serving with the battalion when they left Fermoy at the beginning of the war.

One of these is a L-Corpl S Clover. I can find no record of this man and was wondering if he appears on your data base? the only one i can find is W A Clover that fits the requirements, as he was entitled to the 1914 star and was a lance corporal at the end of the war.

Another question i have is do you know where the war daires are for the 1st battalion as i don't seem to be able to track these down

Regards

Peter

[Michael]

Stephen

Tuck was born in 1885 at Trinity, Maidstone and was employed at Messrs Hall's cement works for 7 years. He previously served in the Boer War and joined The Buffs in Jan 1915. He went overseas with the 8th Battalion on 31/8/1915. He was reported missing in the Kentish Express and Ashford News of 23/10/1915 and later reported DOW in a Jan 1916 edition. He had actually died of wounds on 27/10/1915. He was buried in Leicester.

Peter

Yes it was WA Clover. He joined in May 1913. He served after the war and his wife Jennie was brought on to the married roll in March 1920. He was discharged in December 1934 but rejoined in 1939 and was commissioned into the Royal Pioneer Corps, serving in Europe commanding an airfield construction Company. He was released in 1947. He was a first class Army football referee. He died in 1965. I have his photo if you are interested.

Interestingly, he has 2 MICs; one for Glover with his VM and BWM and one for Clover with his Star. This is the same on his medal rolls. I wonder if he noticed it on his medals because there is no evidence that they were returned.

The 1st Battalion war diaries are at Kew and my pc.

Mick

[shorncliffe]

Peter

Yes it was WA Clover. He joined in May 1913. He served after the war and his wife Jennie was brought on to the married roll in March 1920. He was discharged in December 1934 but rejoined in 1939 and was commissioned into the Royal Pioneer Corps, serving in Europe commanding an airfield construction Company. He was released in 1947. He was a first class Army football referee. He died in 1965. I have his photo if you are interested.

Interestingly, he has 2 MICs; one for Glover with his VM and BWM and one for Clover with his Star. This is the same on his medal rolls. I wonder if he noticed it on his medals because there is no evidence that they were returned.

The 1st Battalion war diaries are at Kew and my pc.

Mick

Hi Mick and thanks for the info. You are right his BWM & VM are both named to GLOVER in fact his MID for 1945 was listed under GLOVER and had to be corrected in a later issue.

He served with the Buffs in Burma and was awarded the IGS medal with bar Burma 1930-32, Army Long Service & Good Conduct medal, and the Meritorious Service Medal.

I have attached two photos i have of him in later life but not sure what the uniform is.

I would love to see what photo you have of him and also where you got the information on him, was it from a copy of The Dragon Magazine? if so would it be possible to send a copy over?

I have sent you a PM with my email address.

Once again thank for your wonderful help.

Peter.

[malangston]

I believe all prisoners were repatriated to non German land to be buried, but could be wrong.

I sent an email after someone recommended the red cross last November and received an answer back in April 19th 2009, pretty good, certainly surprised me.

It was free of charge as well./

Jack

This is the info I have on Crooks;

Born in Sunderland, lived in Wallsend-on-Tyne.

Originally overseas as 2047 1/5th Battalion DLI. Overseas with them on 10/7/1915.

Transferred to Buffs with service number 206158. This would have been after the change to 6 figure numbers in 1917

Served with 6th Battalion Buffs.

Killed in action 27/8/1918 along with 10 others during a succesful attack on Carnoy. Maricourt and Hardecourt.

Buried at Peronne Road Cemetery, grave IID13

1914/15 Star returned having been found by the police

Malangston

Thanks for the extra info on Langston. This is the first I have heard from the Red Cross. How long did they take to respond and did they charge for the info?

I've no idea why there is the contradiction on place of death but having looked at the CWGC details of the cemetery it looks like burials were concentrated from the Arras area after the war. It does seem strange that he was held as a POW in Germany and buried near Arras.

Can I suggest that you contact Terry Denham on this forum who is a CWGC expert. I would be interested to know what he says.

Mick

[MSM]

Hi Mick,

Do you have any information on George Horace Terry?

He was born 1896 and I have his MIC and data from the CWGC - he was in 2nd Battalion, was a POW and died 21st October 1918, buried at Niederzwehren cemetry. I've seen his service number as S/10519 and SR/10519.

I would appreciate any information you have on him.

Regards,

Matthew

[friartuck]

Stephen

Tuck was born in 1885 at Trinity, Maidstone and was employed at Messrs Hall's cement works for 7 years. He previously served in the Boer War and joined The Buffs in Jan 1915. He went overseas with the 8th Battalion on 31/8/1915. He was reported missing in the Kentish Express and Ashford News of 23/10/1915 and later reported DOW in a Jan 1916 edition. He had actually died of wounds on 27/10/1915. He was buried in Leicester.

Mick

Hi Mick,

Thank you very much for the information, sorry I haven't replied sooner, just got back from holiday.

Very kindest regards,

Stephen.

[Michael]

Matthew

Terry was noted as a POW at Gottingen (Baracke 17A) in the Regimental Journal of June 1916. A list from May 1917 shows him at Hameln. He was born in Canterbury and joined the Special Reserve in Septemberish 1913. He went overseas to join the 2nd Buffs on 7/3/1915 as part of a reinforcement following 2nd Ypres. He died of influenza.

What is your interest in him?

Malangston

POWs were not returned to allied lines for burial as evidenced in the above query so his burial remains a mystery.

Peter

Thanks for the photos. The details were taken mostly from the Dragon but I made notes rather than copies so can't forward them to you. Here is a photo of him with the 1st Battalion in 1931

Mick

[MSM]

Thanks for the info on George Terry. His sister, Alice, was my G-G-grandmother.

His niece (my grandmother) was born after the war and didn't know George. She was told a story by her mother that the family were visited by a fellow PoW, who told them that George had had an eagle forcibly tattoed on his face whilst in captivity. Apparently George had told other PoWs that he did not want to return home with the tattoo on his face, the implication being that he may have committed suicide. Not a very nice story and I wasn't sure how accurate it might be - I'm glad to see the records don't support it.

Thanks again for the info.

Matthew

[Michael]

Matthew

I'm glad I've dispelled a nasty myth.

Mick

[shorncliffe]

Peter

Thanks for the photos. The details were taken mostly from the Dragon but I made notes rather than copies so can't forward them to you. Here is a photo of him with the 1st Battalion in 1931

Mick

Mick

Once again thank you very much for sharing the info you have put together over the years to form your excellent data base on the Buffs East Kent Regiment.

The photo is great as it is nice to have one of him as a young man. Could you confirm it was taken with the 1st Battalion as i have him serving with the 2nd Battalion at Shorncliffe in 1931 and being on tour in london in August of that year.

Also do you have dates from which copies of the Dragon you found the info on him, as i would then know which copy to look out for in future.

Once again thanks for you help

Peter

[dave ricketts]

Mick,

Do you have any additional info, above SDGW & CWGC, on Private ERNEST GEORGE CORRIE, G/20848, of the 7th Bn? He was killed in action on 3-May-17.

If you don't have an enlistment date, can you make an estimate from his number?

Thanks a lot.

Dave

[gnr.ktrha]

Hello,

Do you have any information on L-9828 Pte A W Sharp? I think he served with the 2nd Battalion in 1915 and had enlisted around 1912.

His first names was Albert William and he was from Upchurch in Kent. His MIC states 2nd Battalion, but his Character Discharge paper has him listed as 1st Battalion. Was he wounded during the war.

Many thanks for looking,

Stewart

[gnr.ktrha]

Do you have copies of all the medal rolls, I would be interested to know which battalions he served with.

Many thanks for your time,

Stewart

[Michael]

Dave

There is no further info on Corrie. He joined The Buffs in late 1916 or early 1917.

Mick

[dave ricketts]

Dave

There is no further info on Corrie. He joined The Buffs in late 1916 or early 1917.

Mick

Thanks for looking. I understand from the family that he was in France in February 1917.

Cheers,

Dave

[gnr.ktrha]

Mick,

Do you have any further information regarding Pte Sharp? I have not had his medals for very long, so I am very keen to explore all avenues of research.

Many thanks for your time, hope to hear something from you.

Regards,

Stewart

PS I have some bound copies of the Edinburgh Evening News from the Great War, if I come across any Buff's men, would you like me to send you the details and any photographs?

[David643]

I've now completed the transcription of the BWM and VM rolls for the Buffs. After a five year slog I now have the 1914 star, 1914/15 star and SWB rolls. Combined with the MIC index, SDGW/CWGC and various other tables there are now 1,032,880 cells populated on the database. I am confident it includes every man who served overseas with the Buffs.

Now I need to decide what to do with the database. Do I publish it, put on the internet, etc? In the meantime, I have previously offered lookups for completed rolls and am now offering the same for the BWM / VM roll. There are obviously a lot of men who transferred into the Buffs from other Regiments / Corps so if you send me your email address I can supply a small spreadsheet with your area of interest. Do not send me a private message as the inbox gets filled up quickly. Look ups for individuals can be posted on this thread.

Mick