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Mick

I am sorry I incorrectly re-posted your message earlier.

I am interested in information about two relatives who served with the Buffs during World War One.

Pte/Sgt Arthur Charles Cheeseman - He was a pre-war territorial and served in the Turkish campaign being wounded in action. Lived in Coxheath area of Maidstone. Service number L/8761. First served in theatre - France 17.1.15. In the remarks section of his medal card it states "See B. 17.4.19" I don't know what this means.

Joseph Watson - two service numbers G/22986 and L/12640.

Probably conscripted in 1916. Lived in Chatham Kent.

Thank you very much for any assistance you are able to give me with these enquiries.

Regards

David

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I've now completed the transcription of the BWM and VM rolls for the Buffs. After a five year slog I now have the 1914 star, 1914/15 star and SWB rolls. Combined with the MIC index, SDGW/CWGC and various other tables there are now 1,032,880 cells populated on the database. I am confident it includes every man who served overseas with the Buffs.

Now I need to decide what to do with the database. Do I publish it, put on the internet, etc? In the meantime, I have previously offered lookups for completed rolls and am now offering the same for the BWM / VM roll. There are obviously a lot of men who transferred into the Buffs from other Regiments / Corps so if you send me your email address I can supply a small spreadsheet with your area of interest. Do not send me a private message as the inbox gets filled up quickly. Look ups for individuals can be posted on this thread.

Mick

Am trying to trace a william Charles Foord who will believe served with the buffs...from ashford in kentI

Also a Richard George williams who served in the 20's with the buffs.I know this later but coud you give me anything clue on where I might be able to get any information..we know he served in Tin sin (china) many thanks

Susan

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David

The Cheeseman you refer to was a prewar regular soldier who joined in 1908, not a territorial. He served with the 2nd Buffs on the Western Front and by mid 1916 was a POW in Cassel.

There was another AC Cheesman ( I find the surname spelling changes) who was a prewar territorial served with the 5th Buffs in Mesopotamia from 9/12/1915 with numbers T1240 and T240198. He was disembodied on 21/3/1919.

Watson joined The Buffs in the first half of 1917 and served with the 7th Buffs on the WF. He was then transferred to the essex Regt where he served with the 10th and 15th Battalions. He signed up as a regular soldier after the war and served with The Buffs again.

Susan

The only one I can come up with is William Foord who was an old prewar regular soldier who was killed on 14/2/1915 with the 2nd Buffs. He was form Canterbury.

Post WW1 service records are not in the public domain so I can't help very much with Williams. I might be able to help with his movements if you know his Battalion. To add to the confusion, I'm not aware of any Buffs who served in China between the wars. Do you know his service number or enlistment date?

Stewart

The only info I can add is that Sharp went overseas with the 2nd Buffs on 17/1/1915 and at some stage he transferred to the 1st Buffs. I do not know why he was transferred. He was discharged to Army Reserve class B on 12/8/1919.

Any info you can find on Buffs would be gratefully received

Mick Mills

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David

The Cheeseman you refer to was a prewar regular soldier who joined in 1908, not a territorial. He served with the 2nd Buffs on the Western Front and by mid 1916 was a POW in Cassel.

There was another AC Cheesman ( I find the surname spelling changes) who was a prewar territorial served with the 5th Buffs in Mesopotamia from 9/12/1915 with numbers T1240 and T240198. He was disembodied on 21/3/1919.

Watson joined The Buffs in the first half of 1917 and served with the 7th Buffs on the WF. He was then transferred to the essex Regt where he served with the 10th and 15th Battalions. He signed up as a regular soldier after the war and served with The Buffs again.

Susan

The only one I can come up with is William Foord who was an old prewar regular soldier who was killed on 14/2/1915 with the 2nd Buffs. He was form Canterbury.

Post WW1 service records are not in the public domain so I can't help very much with Williams. I might be able to help with his movements if you know his Battalion. To add to the confusion, I'm not aware of any Buffs who served in China between the wars. Do you know his service number or enlistment date?

Stewart

The only info I can add is that Sharp went overseas with the 2nd Buffs on 17/1/1915 and at some stage he transferred to the 1st Buffs. I do not know why he was transferred. He was discharged to Army Reserve class B on 12/8/1919.

Any info you can find on Buffs would be gratefully received

Mick Mills

Thank you, Mick, for the information about AC Cheeseman. It is most helpful in my research as is that in relation to Joseph Watson

Regards

David

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Hello Mick,

Thank you very much for the information. If I turn up any other information on him or any other Buffs, I will pass it on to you.

Regards,

Stewart

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David

The Cheeseman you refer to was a prewar regular soldier who joined in 1908, not a territorial. He served with the 2nd Buffs on the Western Front and by mid 1916 was a POW in Cassel.

There was another AC Cheesman ( I find the surname spelling changes) who was a prewar territorial served with the 5th Buffs in Mesopotamia from 9/12/1915 with numbers T1240 and T240198. He was disembodied on 21/3/1919.

Watson joined The Buffs in the first half of 1917 and served with the 7th Buffs on the WF. He was then transferred to the essex Regt where he served with the 10th and 15th Battalions. He signed up as a regular soldier after the war and served with The Buffs again.

Susan

The only one I can come up with is William Foord who was an old prewar regular soldier who was killed on 14/2/1915 with the 2nd Buffs. He was form Canterbury.

Post WW1 service records are not in the public domain so I can't help very much with Williams. I might be able to help with his movements if you know his Battalion. To add to the confusion, I'm not aware of any Buffs who served in China between the wars. Do you know his service number or enlistment date?

Stewart

The only info I can add is that Sharp went overseas with the 2nd Buffs on 17/1/1915 and at some stage he transferred to the 1st Buffs. I do not know why he was transferred. He was discharged to Army Reserve class B on 12/8/1919.

Any info you can find on Buffs would be gratefully received

Mick Mills

Hi Mick

Sorry I made a mistake with Williams...he was with the queens west Surrey Regt.

many thanks for the info on William Foord

Susan

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Guest ianbanyard

Hi Mick,

I'm trying to trace information about my grandfather George Edward Banyard who served as a young man as a private with the East Kent Regiment (G - 14240) and the Royal West Kent Regiment (G - 21870) 1914-1920

Do you have any information?

Many thanks

Ian Banyard

G-14240PrivateRoyal West Kent RegimentG-21870Private

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Ian

Banyard was from Ipswich and attested at Bury St Edmunds aged 18 in October 1917. He was formerly a milk seller and baker's assistant. After a spell in the training reserve he was posted overseas on 1/6/1918 and joined The Buffs on the Western Front on 5/6/1918 (along with quite a number of other youngsters from the TR Battalion). He served with the 1st Battalion was wounded in action (GSW right shoulder) on 18/9/1918, whilst they attacked the Quadrilateral near St Quentin. Six officers and 150 men from The Buffs were killed or wounded on the day. He was in hospital at Rouen and the base at Etaples before rejoining his Battalion on 8/12/1918

He was transferred to the 6th QORWK on 14/3/1919 and discharged on 8/11/1919.

Mick

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Hi there Mick,

My name is Mandy and Im a first timer to the website and formums.

Im looking to try and find out a bit more info on a great uncle.

I have managed to locate details re his death as follows:

Name: Joseph Dobson

Rank: Private

Regiment: Buffs (East Kent Regiment)

Battallion:7th Battalion

Number: G/18054

Type of Casulty killed in action.

Date of Death: 12/10/1917.

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give

Mandy

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Mandy

Dobson joined The Buffs in Aug/Sept 1916. He served with the 7th Buffs and was with them when they attacked at Poelcapelle during the 3rd Battle of Ypres on 12/10/1917. They moved up to their start position to find that it was thick with mud and they only had shell holes for cover. An officer taped out their direction of attack under cover of darkness. The barrage opened 30 seconds late and landed on the leading wave of troops as they moved forward. They were then cut down by enfilade machine gun. Despite their best efforts to utilise their fire and movement skills, they couldn't advance because of the heavy mud. They lost 56 killed, 183 wounded and 146 missing (most of whem were dead).

Amazingly, both sides were able to tend their wounded under a white flag.

Here is a panorama of their start position that I took in 2006. The road is actually straight. On the left is Poelcapelle church and on the right is Gloster Farm. I have also posted a trench map of the same area for reference. The photo is taken from the blue circle looking east. the hedge line on front is the road leading to Meunier House

post-174-1249938143.jpg

post-174-1249938510.jpg

Dobson was born in Battersea and lived in Earlsfield.

Do you have any further info on him?

Mick

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Mandy

Dobson joined The Buffs in Aug/Sept 1916. He served with the 7th Buffs and was with them when they attacked at Poelcapelle during the 3rd Battle of Ypres on 12/10/1917. They moved up to their start position to find that it was thick with mud and they only had shell holes for cover. An officer taped out their direction of attack under cover of darkness. The barrage opened 30 seconds late and landed on the leading wave of troops as they moved forward. They were then cut down by enfilade machine gun. Despite their best efforts to utilise their fire and movement skills, they couldn't advance because of the heavy mud. They lost 56 killed, 183 wounded and 146 missing (most of whem were dead).

Amazingly, both sides were able to tend their wounded under a white flag.

Here is a panorama of their start position that I took in 2006. The road is actually straight. On the left is Poelcapelle church and on the right is Gloster Farm. I have also posted a trench map of the same area for reference. The photo is taken from the blue circle looking east. the hedge line on front is the road leading to Meunier House

post-174-1249938143.jpg

post-174-1249938510.jpg

Dobson was born in Battersea and lived in Earlsfield.

Do you have any further info on him?

Mick

Thanks so much for that info Mick it was great and absolutely fascinating.

I do not know a huge amount about Joe, I think he was a single man at the time he went to war so had no children or partner. He was born on 17/08/1897, his parents were Elizabeth and George Dobson. The family lived around the Earlsfield/Tooting Border in London.

He was my great grandmothers Elizabeth Donnelly's younger half brother. He had 3 older brothers Donnellys who all saw action. James Donnelly (Died at The Somme 1916), George Donnelly (Who according to James's army record died in India?) and Thomas Donnelly(Naval Man died 1923). Sadly we have no photos of him but I would like to try the military info to know a bit more about this poor young man.

As his name is on Tyne Cot Memorial I assume he must be one of the 146 missing.

Thanks

Mandy

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Mandy

Although you don't think you have a lot of extra info, the family details are always important to me.

You might want to take a trip over there and visit the site of the attack. Let me know if you do and I'll supply you with more maps and detail.

There are 110 deaths recorded for the Battalion on 12/10/1917. Of these, 92 are listed on the Tyne Cot Memorial. We cannot assume that Joseph was one of the missing. It may be that he was one of the confirmed deaths and that he was buried in a known grave. This grave may have been lost or destroyed in future battles. He may be in one of the many graves that contain unidentified men. By 14/10/1917 the figure had risen to 141 with another 22 added to the memorial. They were not in action on 13 and 14 October. This shows that even after the battle, men were being buried but their graves were subsequently lost.

Those that lie in marked graves are in the following cemeteries;

Cement House Cemetery

Dozinghem Mil Cemetery

Poelcapelle Brit Cemetery - this also contains many unidentified Buffs graves

Railway Dugouts Burial Ground

Mick

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Michael at some point i'll try and dig up the Buffs men in my Shropshire casualties database for you.

Neil

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Can somebody help me, my grandfather, told me of some of his times in the East Kent's, His name was Thomas Ambrose Baines, Born in Chelsea, his mind was prone to wander, he told me he went over the top, very few survived and on return he was in a composite Battalion holding the line against a counter attack, his wife was told he was dead, I later found out he did not marry until after the war, wandering memory, he also said he was gassed, he said he lied about his age, and he did his basic training at Inglis barracks Mill Hill, which was, I believe The Middlesex Regiment.

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There was a Thomas A Baines who joined The Buffs in Sept 1916 with number G18183 and later transferred to the Labour Corps with number 533242. Unfortunately I have no further information on him. I can't even place him in a Battalion because the men with similar numbers to him ended up in different Battalions. His stories are all feasible although I cannot confirm them for you. It is possible that he trained with another Regiment before joining The Buffs.

Mick

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Michael

James BOWEN, Private

Can you help with your data base has a record. Perhaps you or someone in the Forum can help me in tracing some record of private ‘James Bowen’ who was reputed to be in the Buffs or maybe a ‘Kent Regiment’.

He was born in 1878 in Margate and joined the Army presumably after 1892 as a private. This was into a Kent Regiment thought to be the Buffs. Wore a red coat and was at Canterbury Barracks about 1902-3-4.

The dates from hereon are not precise and I can only rely on what I was told by relatives since deceased. He served in the 2nd Boer War and returned home about 1902 or 3.

This is where it gets more complicated, sometime between then and 1905 he is reputed to have left the Army. The story is that he was with his contingent at Canterbury Barracks and was given leave, he went to live during this period with his Aunt ‘Scott’ in the Market Square, Margate. Although his father (John William Bowen, stonemason) and second wife were living with his half brothers and sisters at Princess Crescent Margate.

When his money ran out he is reputed to have gone to see them, after meeting my grandmother (his half sister) by chance while she worked in the Station Hotel, Margate.

While at Princess Crescent or on another visit my grandmother said he ‘burnt his red coat in mother’s copper’ and went to Canada.

I am trying to find out if he did get there or if he was arrested and returned to his Regiment. He could have served in the 1st world war but I have no details. An additional story was that there was a Amnesty for deserters in 1910 and 1911 and that he may have returned home but returned to Canada where he married and had children. I have no further knowledge of this family.

I have checked various Anglo-Boer war sites and lists but have found no one of that name in the Kent Regiments serving in S Africa. I am sure he returned to England and wonder would his Regiment have taken him back, in time for the 1st WW.?

1899 December 22 – London Times Dateline Southampton, Dec 22. The Gaika sailed today with the 2/East Kent Regiment (881 men) and the 1/Oxford Light Infantry, 4 men of the 13th Brigade Staff, 4 of the Post Office Corps, 10 Military Foot Police, 57 men of ? 7 Company RAMC, 3 warrant officers, 1 Company of RAMC and 9 horses.

The officers were as follows: 1/Oxfordshire Light Infantry; Lieutenant Colonel Hon. A E Dalzell, Majors R W Porter, G F Mockler, and C R Day; Captains F G L Lamotte, E A E Lethbridge, RE Watt, F J Henley and K R Hamilton; Lieutenants S F Hammick, F H Stapleton, J A Ballard, Hon. G W F S Foljambe, C F Henley, and A G Bayley; 2nd Lieutenants H L Wood, J F C Fuller, V A Ball-Action, and Sullivan; Captain & Adjutant C H Cobb, Lieutenant & Q M W Ross. 2/East Kent. Regiment Colonel R A Hickson; Major J B Backhouse; Captains A R Eustace, R G Marriott, F W B Dynem, W H Trevor, and F Godfrey-Faussett; Lieutenants E H Finch-Hatton, C D K Greenway, C A Worthington, G Mc. B Ronald, H H C Baird, and F S Firth; 2nd Lieutenants Greatwood and Houblom,; Captain & Adjutant A G Geddes; Lieutenant & Q M G Boom. RGA, Captains Thomas and Prendergast. RAMC, Majors Pike, Geddes, and Fayle; Captain Chambers; Lieutenant Rattray. 13th Infantry Brigade Staff, Major-Gen Knox, Captain R Thompson, and Captain O H E Marescaux. (Unfortunately the passenger lists do not list the names of the soldiers on board) I assume the Army had its own list that are locked up in Regimental Records)

National Archives - Piece details WO 32/4516

WO Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Division within WO General records of the War Office and predecessors and successor

WO 32 War Office and successors: Registered Files (General Serie

WO 32/4515 LEGAL AND JUDICIAL: General (Code 67(A)): Remission of sentences and pardon to deserters on the accession of King George V 1910

WO 32/4516 LEGAL AND JUDICIAL: General (Code 67(A)): Remission of sentences and pardon to deserters on the accession of King George V Decisions in connection with 1911

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Mike

There was a Corporal J Bowen who served with the 2nd Buffs in the Boer War. The roll notes that he was discharged to the reserve but no date is given (the roll was compiled in Dec 1902). His number was 4890. I can't get very close with an enlistment date but I estimate that it was mid 1895. He had previously served in the 1st Battalion because the Regimental Gazette notes that he arrived in India to join them as part of a draft in HT Dunera on 19/11/1897. He was drafted from E Coy of 1st Bn at Shwebo (Burma) to the 2nd Bn in South Africa on 24/1/1902. He was then a Lance Corporal. He didn't serve with The Buffs during WW1.

There was also a James Edmond Bowen serving in the 3rd Battalion (Militia) in the late 19th Century. He lived at St Johns, Margate. It was common for men to transfer to the Regular Army from the Militia so it could be the same man. His enlistment paper is in The National Archives.

That's all I have for now

Mick

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Mike

There was a Corporal J Bowen who served with the 2nd Buffs in the Boer War. The roll notes that he was discharged to the reserve but no date is given (the roll was compiled in Dec 1902). His number was 4890. I can't get very close with an enlistment date but I estimate that it was mid 1895. He had previously served in the 1st Battalion because the Regimental Gazette notes that he arrived in India to join them as part of a draft in HT Dunera on 19/11/1897. He was drafted from E Coy of 1st Bn at Shwebo (Burma) to the 2nd Bn in South Africa on 24/1/1902. He was then a Lance Corporal. He didn't serve with The Buffs during WW1.

There was also a James Edmond Bowen serving in the 3rd Battalion (Militia) in the late 19th Century. He lived at St Johns, Margate. It was common for men to transfer to the Regular Army from the Militia so it could be the same man. His enlistment paper is in The National Archives.

That's all I have for now

Mick

Mick

At last I have something firm to investigate. Thank you very much. I have since been told about a James Edmond Bowen going to Canada and his East Kent connection from a Canadian source but his mother is not recorded as Sarah Sayer as I expected but as a Mary Durham so he may not be the one. The information you have on both seems straightforward so perhaps the family story has become confused or misunderstood. Maybe both are from different but close branches of the Bowen family. A lot still to check.

The Corporal J Bowen certanly got about and saw the world.

Regards

Mike

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rachel.ridgeon

Mick

Could you please look at your database and let me have any information on the following:

Pte A G Dowsett G/17578

Pte John Henry Warren 241418

Many thanks

MB

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Mick,

After visiting the graves of 2 great great uncles I have caught the bug and am now working through the names on the village War Memorial (Woodmansterne, Surrey). Have come across one chap who you might be able to help me with.

Name: Gerald Tassel Neame

Born: 1885 (Norwood Middlesex)

Rank: Captain

Regiment: The Buffs (East Kent Regiment)

Unit: 7th Bn

Died: 01/07/1916

Buried: Delville Wood Cemetery.

Thanks

Nigel

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Mick

At last I have something firm to investigate. Thank you very much. I have since been told about a James Edmond Bowen going to Canada and his East Kent connection from a Canadian source but his mother is not recorded as Sarah Sayer as I expected but as a Mary Durham so he may not be the one. The information you have on both seems straightforward so perhaps the family story has become confused or misunderstood. Maybe both are from different but close branches of the Bowen family. A lot still to check.

The Corporal J Bowen certanly got about and saw the world.

Regards

Mike

Mick

Just a note for your records. I think the reason for his mother being recorded as Mary Durham is that his father's wife/partner at the time was a Mary 'Polly' Bowen who had looked after the family from an early age, Sarah had died when the children were very young. Bowen in my resarches has been many times variously distorted. I this case Durham from Burham from Bowen. A combination of pronunciation and mis-spelling. Had me quite worried, once I worked it out it now it seems obvious.

Mike

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