Rarest book?

[Derek Black]

Could Eastern Siberia be first on the extinct list then?

Are there any other books absolutely no one can find hide nor hair of any more? (i'm taking note!)

[Black Maria]

We should make a top 10 of the most unfindable books and petition Naval & Military press to put them to the top of their list for republishing, with the good will of some kind rare book collectors and museums of course .

Existense comes before collectability, in my book (pun intended).

Ah'll keep dreamin'.......

I personally prefer Pen & Sword because I think their books are better quality, I notice they are reprinting a few memoirs in the coming months including=

'Blood Trenches'.. a reprint of 'When the Somme ran Red ' by A.R Dugmore (1918)

'Temporary Heroes' by Norman Cecil Down ( originally published in 1917 under the name Cecil Sommers)

'Walking into Hell 1st July 1916', combines parts of Liveing's 'Attack' (1918) and Malin's 'How I filmed the War'

'Memoirs from the B.E.F 1914-15, a reprint of 'The Doings of the 15th infantry brigade' by Lord Gleichen (1917)

'With the British on the Somme' by William Beach Thomas , reprint of the original 1917 book.

'Amateur Gunners' by I.Ronayne, a reprint of the rare 1934 book by A.D Thorburn with additional letters

'A French Soldiers War Diary 1914-18' by H.Desagneaux , first published in 1975

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Sorry I missed the new direction of this thread - too busy watching Brazil & Robert Plant.

I'll have a think but I'd certainly like to see a couple of my favourites reprinted - Hanbury-Sparrow's 'Land-Locked Lake' & C.A.L. Brownlow's 'The Breaking of the Storm'

[Black Maria]

One advantage for us rare book collectors in the reprinting of books we may already have is that I have noticed when a book is reprinted it seems that original copies come

on to the market and some may even be in their jackets!, the one disadvantage is that it reduces the chances of selling any duplicate copies, for example I managed to sell

my duplicate copy of 'Other Ranks' for £210 but if they had reprinted it I doubt I would have got a third of that for it and I may have had to wait ages for it to sell.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

the one disadvantage is that it reduces the chances of selling any duplicate copies.

I don't know, BM, I doubt that reprints would have much of a depressing effect on prices of original copies. Look at the Modern Firsts market where collectors will often pay tens of thousands for original copies of books that have never been out of print. Other Ranks will be just as scarce in its original state and people like you & me would never settle for anything less.

[MartH]

In my experience reprints have depressed the price of original Official Histories, they effectively stop people buying it who wanted them "just for information".

[Dust Jacket Collector]

In my experience reprints have depressed the price of original Official Histories, they effectively stop people buying it who wanted them "just for information".

True & probably so for all unit histories as well. Maybe it's just reference books that suffer?

[MartH]

True & probably so for all unit histories as well. Maybe it's just reference books that suffer?

I think that is true, prices of original reference books will probably go down if reprints are issued.

[barkalotloudly]

look at the prices for regimental histories I now only buy the very rare or very cheap {originals only}

[barkalotloudly]

Yes but is that the Official History or the Foreign Office Handbook, which has green covers and I will post a picture soon.

I am going to stencil "official history" on the front post a picture on here and then like the "hungry horse" ad count the seconds before you are knocking on the door!! I was pleased to find a copy at a very reasonable price as these handbooks especially the rare one are quite collectable and it will go well with my other bits and pieces on the subject

With regards to this official history have you tried contacting the HMSO {used to be based in Norwich] although previous experience has taught me asking publishers etc about their past publications is generally a waste of time {there is a multi volume American set of books covering this subject available at present £600.00+} but I would imagine very scarce {printed 1918?} If the N&M came knocking I would politely tell them to go way!

[Black Maria]

I don't know, BM, I doubt that reprints would have much of a depressing effect on prices of original copies. Look at the Modern Firsts market where collectors will often pay tens of thousands for original copies of books that have never been out of print. Other Ranks will be just as scarce in its original state and people like you & me would never settle for anything less.

As a seller I would say that original copies of Great War memoirs that have not been reprinted sell quicker and I can ask a higher price, the Modern Firsts market may well

be different.Of course i can ask whatever price i like for a book but i know that once it's been reprinted the chances of obtaining a decent price diminish. As i only sell my

surplus books I'm not too bothered about it but as i have said before i think that people like us that only collect original copies and are prepared to put our hands in our pockets

for them are few and far between, most people are quite happy with a cheap paperback low quality reprint or free download and the thought of stumping up anything over twenty

or thirty quid for a hardback original copy sends them into a cold sweat.

[MartH]

I am going to stencil "official history" on the front post a picture on here and then like the "hungry horse" ad count the seconds before you are knocking on the door!! I was pleased to find a copy at a very reasonable price as these handbooks especially the rare one are quite collectable and it will go well with my other bits and pieces on the subject

With regards to this official history have you tried contacting the HMSO {used to be based in Norwich] although previous experience has taught me asking publishers etc about their past publications is generally a waste of time {there is a multi volume American set of books covering this subject available at present £600.00+} but I would imagine very scarce {printed 1918?} If the N&M came knocking I would politely tell them to go way!

Why should I come knocking at your door ? As I already have stated I have 2 copies of that book, described it and given links to it. Maybe you should have knocked on my door and I would have sold you a copy at a nice price. It takes more than Official History on the cover to make it one, and some that say,:they are not Official Histories actually are.

I will contact HMSO in Norwich - good tip.

Whilst we are discussing this have you got the three official pamphlets done on events in Russia, edited by Nicholson, one covers Siberia, the other 2 Murmansk, I can post the links. Also Von Der Glotz's German memoirs have been translated into English, and covers his operations in England and the other Baltic States. Very good that too if your interested in theses operations.

[barkalotloudly]

just a little jape ol` boy

[Derek Black]

Regarding the value/saleability of rare books.

Is exclusive access to the information held within being for yourself only add to your desire to collect them? Meaning that when a reprint occurs and others have access to the info, this reduces even a dust jacket bound, barely existant books value becuse the contents are no longer restricted to a very few?

I'm just curious.

I collect specific WW2 memoirs, but only for their content, nothing to do with rareity or being a 1st edition, although a few fit into both categories.

[Black Maria]

Having exclusive access to the information doesn't add to my desire to collect a book but knowing because the book has not been reprinted it is more desirable to others may add

something to owning it.Some of the books I am searching for have never been reprinted but if they were it would not diminish my desire to own an original copy, also there are some

books i already have that i am looking to find with dust jackets and some i do not have that i only want with their jackets, there are books i want that have been reprinted but i would

rather wait and maybe never find an original copy than make do with a modern reprint.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

To be honest I've never considered that I might have exclusive access to a book. Apart from some of the books Martin is chasing most of ours are usually available in some form or other. Actually it might be more of a thrill to know that lots of people have a modern copy whereas I might have one of the few originals. For me it's particularly nice to find a signed copy, especially if it's to someone significant.

[MartH]

I have one book that is supposedly exclusive access to me it's Napoleonic, and I have lent it out to exhibitions. It is magic, but not because of the exclusivity.

I am a collector of all English language Official Histories except US ones and very interested in the writing of them, and the writing of the Official Histories of the Great War. I am not against reprints, and would allow some of mine to be used as the master for reprints, and have scanned many a page for people wanting content as well as supplying full photostat copies to others. I do not like cheap production values and non colour maps, partly because I know from my research that to the men of the hostilities only units it was important that the books detailing their exploits should have as high production values as the established units with years of history behind them, though it often did not happen that way.

What I do despise is the apparent attempt by the UK Government should try to make more money out of the reprint of Great War Official Histories without online digitization of them when other Governments or organisations have put them freely online. If they where serious that the centenary of the Great War is so bloody important it would put online one of the corner stones of GW research, the complete Official Histories, with all the associated file materials with them in the National Archives, and it would be a resource for years to come. I mean someone has even translated the Austro Hungarian Official Histories into English and them put online for free, where we have to pay several hundred pounds for a CD you can't even cut and paste from, disgraceful! Rant over.

[MartH]

Now I have brought this topic to a halt with my rant, here are 3 rare books, 2 to illustrate what we have discussed and one to show another side, and restart the discussion.

The Evacuation of Northern Russia

The Siberian volume which is not an Official History.

And we don't often mention US publications, here is the original of a book often quoted but rarely seen in the flesh. Where US books in the 1920's and 30's published in large numbers?

[MartH]

To Illustrate a book that says it's not an Official History, but and had access to Official records (restricted to anyone but Official Historians, until relatively recently), reprinted some important documents crown copy write, and had his draft chapters read by the Air Ministry, etc. He states "This book is in no sense an official history." since "The opinions on events or policy which I have expressed are entirely my own.", sounds like the opt out from Naval Operations Voume III. Oh and the author was an Official Historian for other RAF histories. Not particularly scare without dj, but still an interesting book, which I class as an Official History, a sort of companion volume to Roskill's: Naval Policy Between the Wars.

[MartH]

Back to rare books.

Naval Operations Volume III which I referred to in my previous post, a very rare revised one, in a tatty dustjacket.

It was sold after the bombing of Longmans warehouse so has the tipped in disclaimer.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Super pictures, Martin. Was the disclaimer tipped into your Vol. III above actually glued into the book as it's missing in the copy I have. Might I use the jacket image for the website?

With regard to the Eastern Siberia handbook - how many other volumes are there in the series ( just in case I start collecting them!)

[MartH]

Alan the disclaimer was actually tipped in, which I understand to mean glued to a pages of pages at the spine. IRC the destruction of the warehouse was in April.

I will sort out via email jacket copies, I thought your revised Vol III was in dj? The text is online here http://www.naval-history.net/WW1Book-RN3a.htm#preface

Foreign Office handbooks, the series where numbered up to volume 167 but the Bibliography of the Paris Conference states there where 162 numbers in 25 editions. An incomplete list is here http://catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/record=b3232710~S10. Please note I think the numbering system changed between editions so Eastern Siberia is No 55 or 86, - I think...

[Dust Jacket Collector]

I thought your revised Vol III was in dj? .

Sadly not, I was just happy to find a copy. It's hardly a brilliant one, having I suspect come into contact with water at some time, which may have done for the jacket. No sign of any remains of a disclaimer in my copy. Did they perhaps send out review copies before the fire which wouldn't have had them in?

[MartH]

Sadly not, I was just happy to find a copy. It's hardly a brilliant one, having I suspect come into contact with water at some time, which may have done for the jacket. No sign of any remains of a disclaimer in my copy. Did they perhaps send out review copies before the fire which wouldn't have had them in?

I think more review copies where issued than books actually sold before the fire!

[MartH]

Now rare books come in many guises.

Here is the last of France and Belgium, quite a nice copy.

Now its an association copy

Actually its Michael Carvers review copy of the Battle of Cambrai for the RAC Journal.

So reviewed by the intellectual British Armoured commander of the 20th Century.