Rarest book?

[MartH]

Now another rare book of the scarest grade, and rather valuable too, the reprints where over 1,700.

It has an interesting connection to the Great War, and what might have been, being part of the learning curve of someone special for the Great War. Any takers to its connection?

[Justinth]

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61344&p=2113433

Viz the Official Histories (British) of the Great War they were published by HMSO over 50 years ago so are out of Crown copyright (although the unpublished ones will be in copyright until 2039).

Therefore the two main obstacles are possession of the original volumes (N & MP will have copyright over the images used in their editions, plus copyright over any pages (apparatus/covers) they have added to the text) and also access to a scanner capable of large scale digitisation.

I suspect that outside libraries/university libraries/museums it would not be possible to find a complete printed set. The scanning of such a large number of volumes is also quite labour intensive (even I guess with a professional book scanner, if my experience using the self service machines at the British Library is anything to go by). A publisher would need to recoup their costs and have some sort of profit margin to make it worth their while. Otherwise use of volunteers would work but you would still need access to the volumes and the machinery involved. The completed volumes could be hosted on a site such as the Internet Archive or maybe by the Western Front Association?

I would be interested to hear if anyone has any of the original volumes rather than the N & MP reprints.

Regards

Justin

[MartH]

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61344&p=2113433

Viz the Official Histories (British) of the Great War they were published by HMSO over 50 years ago so are out of Crown copyright (although the unpublished ones will be in copyright until 2039).

Therefore the two main obstacles are possession of the original volumes (N & MP will have copyright over the images used in their editions, plus copyright over any pages (apparatus/covers) they have added to the text) and also access to a scanner capable of large scale digitisation.

I suspect that outside libraries/university libraries/museums it would not be possible to find a complete printed set. The scanning of such a large number of volumes is also quite labour intensive (even I guess with a professional book scanner, if my experience using the self service machines at the British Library is anything to go by). A publisher would need to recoup their costs and have some sort of profit margin to make it worth their while. Otherwise use of volunteers would work but you would still need access to the volumes and the machinery involved. The completed volumes could be hosted on a site such as the Internet Archive or maybe by the Western Front Association?

I would be interested to hear if anyone has any of the original volumes rather than the N & MP reprints.

Regards

Justin

I am one off a full set of originals.

[MartH]

Including the 4 confidential and restricted ones.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Resticting myself to the 97 vols. generally considered, if only by me, to make up the Official History, then I'm 4 volumes short - 1 Medical, 2 Order of Battle & Persia, of course. I'd also include the huge Statistics vol., but tend to avoid some of the additional rarities identified by Martin H as I need to preserve both money & sanity which may be lost in the search.

Martin - what about the Munitions set? Do you include that? I don't as I expect never to find it.

[MaureenE]

Regarding post 518 by MartH and the book Eastern Siberia, which is part of the series

Peace handbooks / Issued by the Historical Section of the Foreign Office (http://catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/record=b3232710~S10 , given in post 522)

This book is available on the Hathi Trust Digital Library (full view) in a reprint edition, and on Google Books snippet view, which in some countries such as North America may be available full view.

http://hdl.handle.net/2027/coo.31924065780763?urlappend=%3Bseq=489

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=TGdOAAAAYAAJ

Hathi Trust has many editions in this series, some full view and some limited view, which may be full view in some countries

http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Search/Home?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=Foreign%20Office.%20Historical%20Section&page=7&ft=&page=1

In particular, the following link has full view links (except for one volume) to a reprint edition

http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100152766?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=Foreign%20Office.%20Historical%20Section&ft=

However the volumes are uncatalogued as the countries contained in each volume. East Silesia was taken from Volume IX The Russian Empire, (books 50-56], however these are different numbers to the numbers given in the link from post 522 above) and it is the ninth link on the list

Cheers

Maureeen

[MartH]

Resticting myself to the 97 vols. generally considered, if only by me, to make up the Official History, then I'm 4 volumes short - 1 Medical, 2 Order of Battle & Persia, of course. I'd also include the huge Statistics vol., but tend to avoid some of the additional rarities identified by Martin H as I need to preserve both money & sanity which may be lost in the search.

Martin - what about the Munitions set? Do you include that? I don't as I expect never to find it.

I include Statistics as one of them, and other reports such as The Report of the the Battles Nomenclature Committee, which I suspect that Edmond's inputted to considerably, and The Narrative of the Battle of Jutland to name but two.

Defining what an Official History is, is quite hard and I have my own view, and include the aviation one I posted above. I was pleased to note reading Historical Dreadnoughts that Naval Policy between the Wars was one, except the publishing deal was struck before they could put Official in the title.

Now the Official History of Munitions or its correct title "History of Munitions"? I have copies of some of the parts, I am pretty ambivalent to it, which is unusual for me and books that could be considered Official Histories. It is, but I just don't get excited or interested in acquiring it like others

Any answers to my question about the Russo Japanese Volume?

[MartH]

Regarding post 518 by MartH and the book Eastern Siberia, which is part of the series

Peace handbooks / Issued by the Historical Section of the Foreign Office (http://catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/record=b3232710~S10 , given in post 522)

This book is available on the Hathi Trust Digital Library (full view) in a reprint edition, and on Google Books snippet view, which in some countries such as North America may be available full view.

http://hdl.handle.net/2027/coo.31924065780763?urlappend=%3Bseq=489

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=TGdOAAAAYAAJ

Hathi Trust has many editions in this series, some full view and some limited view, which may be full view in some countries

http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Search/Home?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=Foreign%20Office.%20Historical%20Section&page=7&ft=&page=1

In particular, the following link has full view links (except for one volume) to a reprint edition

http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100152766?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=Foreign%20Office.%20Historical%20Section&ft=

However the volumes are uncatalogued as the countries contained in each volume. East Silesia was taken from Volume IX The Russian Empire, (books 50-56], however these are different numbers to the numbers given in the link from post 522 above) and it is the ninth link on the list

Cheers

Maureeen

Hi Maureen, thanks for this, you have identified a 1973 reprint, more interesting stuff I was referring to a reprint during the Peace Conference. I think there was 1919 and 1920 edition. I am beginning to think these books need further study, and answer what was the reason for the reprints,etc.

Prothero was a great bibliophile and produced one of the first bibliographies on the on the Great War.

In your search did you find the companion volume to The Evacuation of Northern Russia called Eastern Siberia, publish HMSO ?

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Failed dismally to identify Lord Carver's expertise in Tank warfare so moving on with a thought on which books become rare. A couple of conflicting examples from the Official History. A recent catalogue offered 3 seperate volumes from the Medical Services series. Each was printed in an edition of 1500 & are among the scarcest members of the OH, it being particularly hard to build a complete set. Also in the same catalogue, & mentioned above by Martin, is a copy of the Narrative of the Battle of Jutland. This was printed in an edition of only 1000 copies & yet there are 15 copies available on ABE from as little as £2!

Discuss.

[barkalotloudly]

due to the increasing number of reprint I have tended to avoid regimental histories etc but I couple of small battalion histories have tempted my to part with some cash

diary 4th battalion queens own Cameron highlanders 1914/15 northern chronicle inverness "to be continued"

4th battalion {denbigshire} battalion royal welsh fusiliers

both relatively small softcover books and are interesting as they contain lists of names etc

[MartH]

Alan has posed an interesting challenge which I have often thought about for several books. Why are books with not an insignificant print run now scare, and others with smaller print runs still available? This a particularly true for some Official Histories, but also for other works. I think we must differentiate between numbers sold and print runs, I would love to know for example how many medical Official Histories where sold, how many distributed to Military Libraries and how many pulped at the end, or still lie in boxes in some military warehouse. Personally I believe not many where sold, being over a pound and not appealing to the mass market, and thus now are scare.

I suppose we have the following types of books:

• Popular histories
• Official Histories
• Divisional Histories
• Regimental Histories
• Battalion Histories
• Personal Memoirs
• Works cover theaters
• Works covering campaigns
• Works covering battles and engagements
• Poetry

And of these I suspect there are scarce books in every category except Popular histories.

Does anyone think a particular category has more scarce books?

[barkalotloudly]

simply because of the huge number of different titles I would think Personal memoirs has more of the scarce category? this would also include memorial volumes? all the above have very scarce titles that you see once in a blue moon. After collecting for over 25 years I still come across books in all categories that I have never heard of, like a month to a flame I am always tempted by those words "limited to 50/100 copies", "privately printed", "printed for private circulation"

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Difficult to genaralise but I guess Unit & Official Histories went into the Reference part of the library where they lay largely untouched for decades until recent 'rationalisations' saw them released into the market. Personal memoirs & poetry probably went straight to the open access shelves where they slowly disintegrated. Which of course doesn't answer my first question.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Dammit - got home too late and found the latest catalogue from Morten & therefore missed a particularly rare & desirable book which has recently been discussed elsewhere on the forum - Tale of a Casualty Clearing Station by 'Royal Field Leech' & only £30!!! I think I'd have paid several times that.

[MaureenE]

Hi Maureen,

In your search did you find the companion volume to The Evacuation of Northern Russia called Eastern Siberia, publish HMSO ?

Eastern Siberia online details are given above.

Army. The Evacuation of Northern Russia 1919 is available on Archive.org

https://archive.org/details/armyevacuationof00greauoft (although when I tried the link it does not work. You may need to find the book directly on Archive.org. Alternatively Google archive.org/details/armyevacuationof00greauoft )

Cheers

Maureen

[MartH]

Eastern Siberia online details are given above.

Army. The Evacuation of Northern Russia 1919 is available on Archive.org

https://archive.org/details/armyevacuationof00greauoft (although when I tried the link it does not work. You may need to find the book directly on Archive.org. Alternatively Google archive.org/details/armyevacuationof00greauoft )

Cheers

Maureen

Maureen, thanks, sorry but it's probably not the one I'm after, I believe there 2 Eastern Siberia's printed from HMSO, earlier on in the topic I post my source. One is the Official History and companion to The Evacuation of Northern Russia, the other is the Eastern Siberia, Peace Booklet. Both of which I have supplied pictures of. Unless of course John Keegan made mistake.

Dammit - got home too late and found the latest catalogue from Morten & therefore missed a particularly rare & desirable book which has recently been discussed elsewhere on the forum - Tale of a Casualty Clearing Station by 'Royal Field Leech' & only £30!!! I think I'd have paid several times that.

Your lucky my post arrives noon!

Still thinking about the categories. I wonder if large numbers of books get chucked away in the public hands over a say 50 years?

[MartH]

simply because of the huge number of different titles I would think Personal memoirs has more of the scarce category? this would also include memorial volumes? all the above have very scarce titles that you see once in a blue moon. After collecting for over 25 years I still come across books in all categories that I have never heard of, like a month to a flame I am always tempted by those words "limited to 50/100 copies", "privately printed", "printed for private circulation"

I am tempted by those words "For Official use Only" "Restricted", and "Secret", though I am more like the Honey Monster to ......

[David Filsell]

I think novels - fiction - should be in the list; in some cases the difference between fiction and personal memoirs is slight.

[MartH]

Hows this:

• Popular histories
• Official Histories
• Divisional Histories
• Regimental Histories
• Battalion Histories
• Personal Memoirs
• Novels Fiction
• Works cover theaters
• Works covering campaigns
• Works covering battles and engagements
• Poetry

[Dust Jacket Collector]

There are probably as many different types of War books as there are books in general, many of them falling into multiple catagories. A glance at the publishers lists issued early in the War show numerous works considering the causes of the War, possible outcomes, profiles of those involved, Natonal characteristics, Plays, Children's books etc., etc. And I've lost track of the number of books on pigeons, dogs, horses & other animals who've had works written about them. A quick look through Enser's bibliography will show what difficulties he faced in fitting books into categories.

[barkalotloudly]

yes quite placing "Donkeys" in the animal section

[David Filsell]

MartH

Thank you

David

[barkalotloudly]

I had on my lists an indian regimental, I had found one on the net months ago but other purchases took place and I left it, I asked the dealer earlier in the week would he accept a reasonable offer , he replied was I a dealer? etc etc and then proceeded to send a condescending email he had been a dealer {general I might add} for many years and why he would only give discounts to other dealers.Well old fruit your attitude is one of the reasons most book fairs have gone t**s up, us collectors do not have to put up with the old boy dealer network any longer, and as I pointed out to him as one door closes several more open thanks to the net! in fact I find many dealers will give a far better discount than I would have dare asked for. needless to say I did not make a purchase!

[Purbecksteve]

Would any one know how many copies of "An Artillery Officer in the First World War" by Colonel R Macleod were printed ,it's in manuscript form ? I know I purchased my copy for a few English poonds circa 1981 .

[Dust Jacket Collector]

It would seem to be unpublished. Google shows a couple of copies of the typescript in American collections & it looks as if one turned up on Ebay recently. Maybe you could find a publisher for it?