Royal Engineers Special Brigade

[Tinhat47]

Here's a question: Would "No. 1 Special Coy." as written in service papers always be a reference to No. 1 Special (Mortar) Coy., or was there another No.1 Coy?

[Terry_Reeves]

Matt

They are one and the same. There was only one No1 Company.

TR

[Tinhat47]

Excellent! Thank you!

[Guest Skinnerp]

HelloTerry Reeves.

Ernest Henry James Skinner army service number 106434 son of John + Laura Skinner of 42 Lascotts Rd, Bowes Park Wood Green, N London

I have just found your blog site and I have recently discovered, by revisiting his attestation papers, that my Great Uncle, Ernest Henry James Skinner, joined the No1 Special battalion Royal Engineers. Although his attestation papers are among the ‘burnt records’, several pages survive but some are indistinct. Ernest was a school teacher and joined the army in July 1915 in No1 special battalion Royal Engineers. (Two of his brothers were already in the RAMC). Ernest was given the rank of chemist Corporal. He embarked for France as part of ‘Ex. Force’ in August 1915 but curiously his disembarkation date is December 1915.

The attestation papers state that he spent some time in The French Dispensary Hospital in Shaftesbury Avenue (the date is indistinct/missing) and was discharged from the Royal Engineers, taking a commission as 2^nd lieutenant in the Royal fusiliers in 1917 and becoming a full lieutenant in 1918 he served in 9^th service and 5^th reserve battalions.

The French dispensary Hospital is described as a specialist Hospital. Could his hospitalisation there be gas related? Why was he in a hospital for French soldiers? Would he have been entitled to a silver star?

I have a studio photo of him. and wonder if he is in any of the photos referred to earlier

I believe he died in Worthing Sussex in 1971 and I would like to fill in more details about him, particularly in his WW1 service and up to the time of his death. Do you have any information about him?

I intend to visit the RE museum as soon as the refurbishment is complete.

Regards

Paul Skinner

[Terry_Reeves]

Hello Paul

Thanks for your post. I can say that EHJ Skinner was one of the original Specials and took part in the first British gas attack at Loos in September, 1915. He would have been in either 186, 187,188 or 189 Companies. Unfortunately there are no war diaries for these units. In January 1916, the organisation was enlarged to a brigade sized formation and the companies were lettered rather than numbered. No 1 Battalion consisted of four companies A to E inclusive. These units have war diaries, the TNA references for which are:

A Company - WO95/241

B Company - ditto

C Company -WO95/549

D Company - WO95/486

He also has a officers personal record which can be seen at TNA in WO339/68133.

With regard to the French Dispensary Hospital, this was not a specialist hospital and had been established long before the war. If you put it into your search engine you will find a lot of information about it.

If I can help further, please let me know.

TR

[Guest Skinnerp]

Hello Terry.

Thanks for the information. I have plenty to look up next time at TNA. I did find someting about the hospital on "Lost hospitals of London" web site. I must confess it came as a bit of a shock to discover that Gt uncle Ernest was involved wih chemical warfare!! Especially as his 2 brothers were RAMC.

Thanks once again

Paul

[Terry_Reeves]

Paul

I should have added WO 95/121 - the war diary of 1st Battalion 1916 - March 1917.

TR

[dimpkins]

Good Evening

Philip Alfred Diment

South Staffs 8th Battalion 14122

Royal Engineers 143049

Today I obtained an Air Ministry Service record relating to him AIR76, it details him as Corporal H Special Coy RE, would anyone have any advice how I may research this further.

Would I be correct in thinking H Special Company were part of the 2nd Battalion? If so are their War Diaries available

Regards

[Terry_Reeves]

Philip

H company was part of 2nd Battalion. The war diaries are at TNA :

2nd Battalion Special Brigade : WO 95/121 ) from Jan 1916 to Feb 1917

H Special Coy: W095/334 (from March 1917)

They have not been digitised yet so personal visit will be necessary.

PA Diment was one of 8 men from the South Staffordshire regiment transferred to the Special Brigade at the beginning of 1916 when the original four companies were expanded to a brigade sized formation. Many infantry regiments had to give up men to help form the brigade at this period in the war.

TR

[dimpkins]

Hi Terry

Thank you very much, its greatly appreciated. I have ordered all of the books you suggest, I will also pay a visit to Kew to read the diaries.

[Guest Steve Teasdale]

Hi Terry Reeves

I have only just recently come across your thread and would be very grateful if you could help me out with my quest to find out more information about my Great Uncle. His name was Thomas Arthur Teasdale 128143, Royal Engineers. He originally joined up at the beginning of the war, joining The Durham Light Infantry ( having originated from Consett, Co Durham) - his number was 12363. I have a feeling he may have been under age but he was also invalided out with a heart murmur I believe. When he rejoined he was attached to the Royal Engineers, J Special Company. He was killed on 22nd March 1918, aged 21. His family (brothers etc) always believed that he had been killed as a tunneller (they all had a mining background) or in a tank and it was only recently that I began to realise that J company was a gas company. He has no known grave and is remembered at the Arras memorial ( I was there just 2 days ago to pay my respects). My initial thoughts are that he was killed in the major German push in that area which i believe started the day before. I don't know whether he would have been sent to the front to help out as an infrantryman or if he died whilst using the gas. Is there any way I could find out what his company was doing that day or even where they were on the front line? I do have a photo of him which i would be happy to share with you, if it was of interest. Keep up the great work and thank you in advance for any info you can give me.

Regards

Steve Teasdale

[Terry_Reeves]

Steve

J Company was in action on 21st March 1918, fighting as infantry, in the line near CROISILLES Their positions were overrun by mid-afternoon, with a number of men killed and captured. The company was commanded by Captain Charles Laycock MC, who was one of those taken prisoner. He has a personal file at the National Archives in WO339/13067. His report of the day's fighting on his return from captivity is interesting and informative . You should also see J Company's war diary at TNA in WO95/401 which covers that period.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

I would be pleased to see a photograph of Thomas, thank you for the offer.

TR

[Guest Steve Teasdale]

Terry

Thank you so much for the information, it is marvellous to have such after all this time - I can't wait to inform the family. Once I have worked out how to attach an image to these posts I will send you a photo of him. It is quite sad to think that his body was never recognised, even though they were defending a small village.His medals, death plaque and death certificate are framed and take pride of place in our home. I will make every effort to read the NA documents as soon as I can.

i am very grateful for your swift response.

Regards

Steve

[dimpkins]

Hi Terry, thanks for the lead re War Diaries at TNA

Great source of information well worth the trip

Regards

[Guest Bethesda]

Hi Terry

I am trying to research two great uncles who we believe served together in the RE Special Bridade. William (b. 1890) and Sydney (b.1895) Cooper from Bath. They both survived the war, both gassed at some point, both demobbed in 1919. That is as far as the family memory goes. I have tried Ancestry and Findmypast, but can't find service records for either so am guessing that theirs are some of the many records lost in WW2. William was training, if not already qualified, as a pharmacist when war broke out and Sydney was an apprentice pharmacist. I have found out about the book 'Chemical Soldiers' so we will try and get hold of that as some background but if you have any info regarding their service history, that would be great to know.

Best regards

Claire

[Terry_Reeves]

Hi Terry

I am trying to research two great uncles who we believe served together in the RE Special Bridade. William (b. 1890) and Sydney (b.1895) Cooper from Bath. They both survived the war, both gassed at some point, both demobbed in 1919. That is as far as the family memory goes. I have tried Ancestry and Findmypast, but can't find service records for either so am guessing that theirs are some of the many records lost in WW2. William was training, if not already qualified, as a pharmacist when war broke out and Sydney was an apprentice pharmacist. I have found out about the book 'Chemical Soldiers' so we will try and get hold of that as some background but if you have any info regarding their service history, that would be great to know.

Best regards

Claire

Claire

Do either of these men have middle names?

TR

[Wilts Rover]

Hi Terry

I have just come across the thread which must be synchronicity as I am searching for information on Pioneer 128567 Ernest Gibson, A Special Company, Royal Engineers (formerly 26929 Yorkshire Light Infantry)

Born at Crowle, Lincolnshire in 1896, Ernest was one of the five children of Charles and Clara Gibson. The family lived in North Street, Crowle, where his father worked as a 'portable engine driver'. Like his father and many of the men in Crowle at that time Ernest was also a farm labourer, in 1911 working for Charles Marchant at Rainsbutt Farm. He was single when he died.

Unfortunately his service record has not survived but Ernest enlisted in the Yorkshire Light Infantry at Doncaster, post 1915.

Now my question. Both CWGC and SDGW have Ernest as killed in action, 3rd May 1917. Which is not unusual as this was Arras and the Battle of Scarpe. But he is buried in Trois Arbres Cemetery near Steenwerck, so presumably died in that area, the 2nd Australian Casulaty Clearing Station was there. But it is near Ypres? And only 2 people died there on 3rd May 1917? So what action was he taking part in, to be killed in action near Ypres during the Battle of Arras?

Unfortunately the A Special Company War Diary is not yet digitised so hoping you may have some snippets.

Many thanks

[Terry_Reeves]

Wlits Rover

The SB operational records only show three operations on 3 May 1917, all in the Arras area. The the thing to remember is that there were men killed daily across the whole of the British line even when some of the largest battles were taking place. It is quite possible that he was killed setting up or recovering cylinders or Livens projectors for instance, in the Steenwerck area. The war diary is likely to be the only source that will shed light on his situation.

TR

[Wilts Rover]

Thanks Terry, will post the info on here when I get it.

[Guest strephene]

Hi Terry

I am researching a Pioneer, Arthur Major 128586 2nd Special Battalion R E Born Horncastle lincolnshire 1896 mother lizzie Sowden. He was killed in action 5 October 1916 and buried Philosophe British cemetery Mazingarbe france.

Was a motor mechanic in Horncastle then went to Sheffield as a gentlemen's chauffeur. Enlisted Sheffield. was he with the Chemicals team? Any thing you have on him would be appreciated.

Thank you

Colin

[Terry_Reeves]

strephene

He was transferred from the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry in the first quarter of 1916, when the offensive CW organisation of four companies, was expanded into a brigade size organisation. 2nd battalion , Special Brigade consisted of four companies, E to H.

On the day that Arthur was killed, there were three gas operations. The most likely operation he was involved in at the time was Special Brigade operation 187 in the Hulloch Salient in support of8th and 40th Divisions. This was a three stage operation using a total of 2527 cylinders as follows:

8 am against 26, 72,93,153, 165 and 393 Infantry Regiments

8:45pm against 24, 242, 245, 247 and 248 Infantry Regiments.

10:30 pm

Given that he is buried in Philosophie I would think that the Hulloch operation is the one that he was killed in.

2nd Battalion war diary is available at TNA in WO95/121 and may help further.

Hope this helps.

TR

[Guest Rhuw]

My great great uncle(my great grandfathers brother) Cpl.113043 William Joseph Lewis of Danywern Gwernffrwd Penclawdd Swansea was a member of the Special Brigade.He was killed on the Somme on the 14th o fJuly 1916 aged 27.His grave is at Bien Villiers, France.I believe he may have attended Cardiff University but have not confirmed this.Neither do I know what subject he may have studied.
The Commonwealth War Graves site stated Special Brigade depot.I know nothing further about his service,whether he joined the brigade at its inception or transfered from another regiment.It appears his records may have been destroyed in the "blitz.."
His brother Ben Lewis RWF was wounded on the Somme but survived.Interestingly,but perhaps not surprisingly, six others buried near-by were killed on the same day.Pnr.128968 T.J. Britt
Pnr.167483 J.H.Dixon, both of the brigade and 4 Northumberland fusilliers E.Enneson, J Cowell, R.A. Elliott and a private Jeffrey.

I have a photograph of a soldier which may be Wil but I am unable to establish this.I hope this information may be of use to you and would appreciate any further information you may have or any suggestions.

He is now commemorated on the Penclawdd War Memorial, recently updated with the addition of a names plaque.Further commemorated with a marble plaque St.Davids Church Gwernffwrd and a plaque at Gowerton Comprehensive School, formerly Gowerton Grammar School.
A wonderful site.

[Terry_Reeves]

Rhuw

Thanks for your contribution. Soldiers died in the Great War shows his unit as "M" Depot Company, which was at Chatham, and was the company that men joining the Specials in the UK normally joined on enlistment.

WJ Lewis was one of the original members of the Specials and would have joined in the summer of 1915 in response to a letter sent out by the War Office to universities and colleges asking for men with experience in chemistry to join. He was almost certainly at Loos for the first British gas attack in September 1915. the units responsible for this were 186, 187, 188 and 189 companies.

I think there is a very good chance of him being in a 4th battalion unit on the day he was killed. In January 1916, the offensive chemical warfare units were expanded into a brigade sized formation and all companies were alphabetically ordered. The 4th Bn war diary can be found the National Archives in WO 95/122 and it contains information for the companies under its command.

TR

[Guest Rhuw]

Thanks very much for your prompt reply.One of 8 children his parents John and Mary ran a small village grocers shop and also baked bread there.His sister, who I remember well ran the shop until the late 1950'S.They can be traced there prior to the 1800's.I often pass there.A booklet called "Theirs is not to reason why" has recently been published which lists the men from this area(Penclawdd and district) who served during WW1.Author Ann Roberts.It includes those who did not return.I've just added this in case it might be of use to others.The booklet includes some accounts from survivors and their relatives but nothing relevant to the Brigade.Should I establish anything further I will update here.Hope the details I mentioned in relation to the other brigade men was of use.Are you hoping to complete a publication at some stage if not already?Thanks again.

"War is chaos."

[norfolknun]

Terry,

Thank you for this wonderful thread.

I am researching my Great Uncle

William Henry Norman, born Nuneaton in 1884

He enlisted on 11.12.15 aged 30 years and three months

His original deployment was noted as the Gordon Highlanders but I have details of him with the RE Special Brigade.

On his medal card, 372/14/94045 he is listed thus

Royal Engineers 214650 Sapper

Worcestershire Regt 33562 Sapper

Royal Engineers 284023. Sapper

I have seen an ID Certificate dated 11.10.19 which detailed him as a platelayer in the 239th LR Forward Company RE.

Would the majority of his service have been with the Special Brigade, even with other Regts? before he went to the LR Company?

Deep breath

Thank you

Jeremy