Terry_Reeves Posted 28 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2013 Ian If you would like to contact me via the personal message system I will look at the technical matters for you. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Pooley Posted 29 November , 2013 Share Posted 29 November , 2013 Terry, I came across a photo of George Coubrough which I think may be of general interest. I've attached a copy to this reply. In 1901, around the time the photo may have been taken, he was gazetted as Second Lieutenant in the 3rd Battalion, Highland Light Infantry. How he moved from this position to Pioneer in the Royal Engineers by 1917 remains a mystery. Ian Pooley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 30 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2013 Ian From the photograph (thanks for publishing it) it looks like he was serving in South Africa during the Boer War when this was taken, or prior to going out there, although you may already know this. Looking at his attestation pears for WW1, it looks like he was a volunteer officer who was connected with the 4th (Militia) Battalion HLI . He resigned his commission on 11th October 1902. It is quite possible that when WW1 came around he was not interested in being an officer and happy to serve in the ranks. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentishwolf Posted 1 December , 2013 Share Posted 1 December , 2013 Terry, you may already have this man I found him when working on my Tunnellers casualties database, he is incorrectly listed on CWGC as belonging to 187th Tunnelling Company. Arnold Philip Deverell, 106424, KiA, 13/10/1915. From looking at him he has some service papers surviving and they show he attested in London on 23/7/1915 a Chemist posted to 187th Special Company. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 2 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2013 Andy Thanks for that. Errors do occur in the database , particularly where similar unit numbers are involved. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NW1234 Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 Terry, One more for your list. 113392 William Hopkinson Section 55 K Company. 3rd Battalion, Special Brigade Sailed from Chatham Sept 13th 1915 NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 4 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2014 Neil Many thanks for that, I do have his name but the details of his company and section are very welcome. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glengarry1950 Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 Hi Terry, Just picked up your thread I have been researching my Great Grandfather in the Great War he was 183 Tunnelling Company from his arrival in France 17th Oct 1915 until his injury on 14th Jan 1918 all his details are on my thread 183 Tunnelling, I am waiting for the units war diaries to be published on line to see if he was involved in the Levine flame project, which 183 Tunnelling Company carried out. He was a miner of 24 years experience also a soldier before that with 7 years and 155 days service in the Seaforth Highlanders prior to volunteering at the age of 47 for his RE service. Great thread. Cheers Hiram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 5 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Thanks Hiram, it sounds interesting. Keep us informed. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDPyke Posted 9 February , 2014 Share Posted 9 February , 2014 This is my first posting, so I apologise if I don't get the protocol correct. I have been researching masters and old boys of Bournemouth school and one of those was a Chemistry teacher Percy D F Pean who I know was transferred from 15th London to RE Chemists sometime in 1916. His RE number was 146946 and his rank Pioneer. His medal card also includes RE/101 B223 55174 - none of which mean anything to me. He was killed in action on 26th June 1916, and was buried at Colincamps. I assume he might have died in something to do with preparations using gas? I should very much like to now whether he really was in a gas handling unit, and anything about what he was likely to have been doing in the days leading to his death. maybe he was involved in a gas shell that went wrong? Any information or help would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 9 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2014 He was a member the the RE Special Brigade which was Britain's chemical warfare formation. His transfer from the infantry would have took place in the first quarter of 1916, when the original units were expanded into a brigade sized formation. He was killed whilst serving with 1st Battalion, which consisted of four companies, A, B C. and D. They dispensed gas from cylinders, and later also used the Liven's projector, a crude but effective mortar. 1st Battalion's war diary is at the National Archives, Kew in file class WO 95/121. This will give you the day to day doings of the battalion. You will have to work your way through the various companies within the battalion, but it may not mention him by name. For further reading see Donald Richter's book Chemical Soldiers. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDPyke Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Thank you Terry. This gives me the info I need for when I go to Kew, so I know to look for the 1st Battalion and those four companies. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callard Posted 13 February , 2014 Share Posted 13 February , 2014 This is my first post so apologies if protocol is not correctly followed. I am researching 2nd Lieutenant Kenneth Wheater 4th Special Battalion Royal Engineers. He died on 6th May 1917 and is buried in Beaulencourt. He was with G Coy when he was killed. I have come across some detail in this thread of an incident where a number of men of the RE were killed while unloading gas canisters and charges near Vaulx. It says 9 men from G Coy were killed. I was rather hoping that someone could provide some more information on exactly where this happened and any other information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 13 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2014 Callard The incident happened in a sunken lane just north of Vaulx. It was a Z Company operation in which G and P companies were assisting. 250 Liven's projectors, bombs and associated propellant charges and detonators were being transported from Z Company HQ at Bienvillers in 20 GS wagons from 7th and58th Division ammunition columns. The tubes, munitions and ancillary equipment were to be unloaded in the lane a couple of hundred yards behind a ridge. The road that runs behind the ridge is now the D36E1. For safety purposes, the wagons travelled at 100 yard intervals. The charges were carried on separate wagons but arrived at the same time most of the men from the carrying parties were at their maximum. A stray shell, believed to be from a minenwerfer landed , on or close to the charge wagons which detonated. It was at this point that an estimated 90% of the casualties occurred. The explosion caused the German artillery to turn its guns in the direction of the detonation. The survivors of the initial explosion took cover in cubby holes dug into the embankment in the nearby sunken lane. Unfortunately a shell landed on top of the embankment buried some seven or eight men. Most of the men were rescued but one died of his wounds shortly afterwards and two others, who were buried beneath several tons of earth were lost. The casualty roll was: 5 men from 58 Div Ammunition Column, and one wounded from 7 DAC. Z Company lost 14 killed and 7 wounded; P Company 21 killed and 14 wounded; G company eight men and 1 officer killed and 17 men wounded. The full report of the incident, compiled by Lt Bansall of Z Company can be seen at TNA in WO95/ 486. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callard Posted 13 February , 2014 Share Posted 13 February , 2014 Callard The incident happened in a sunken lane just north of Vaulx. It was a Z Company operation in which G and P companies were assisting. 250 Liven's projectors, bombs and associated propellant charges and detonators were being transported from Z Company HQ at Bienvillers in 20 GS wagons from 7th and58th Division ammunition columns. The tubes, munitions and ancillary equipment were to be unloaded in the lane a couple of hundred yards behind a ridge. The road that runs behind the ridge is now the D36E1. For safety purposes, the wagons travelled at 100 yard intervals. The charges were carried on separate wagons but arrived at the same time most of the men from the carrying parties were at their maximum. A stray shell, believed to be from a minenwerfer landed , on or close to the charge wagons which detonated. It was at this point that an estimated 90% of the casualties occurred. The explosion caused the German artillery to turn its guns in the direction of the detonation. The survivors of the initial explosion took cover in cubby holes dug into the embankment in the nearby sunken lane. Unfortunately a shell landed on top of the embankment buried some seven or eight men. Most of the men were rescued but one died of his wounds shortly afterwards and two others, who were buried beneath several tons of earth were lost. The casualty roll was: 5 men from 58 Div Ammunition Column, and one wounded from 7 DAC. Z Company lost 14 killed and 7 wounded; P Company 21 killed and 14 wounded; G company eight men and 1 officer killed and 17 men wounded. The full report of the incident, compiled by Lt Bansall of Z Company can be seen at TNA in WO95/ 486. TR I think that the list below are the 44 of the men of the RE that were killed in the incident. Do you think that there may be any records that would enable me to find the sunken road where it happened; BELL R United Kingdom Pioneer 214329 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 30 III. F. 3. BROWN F W R United Kingdom Pioneer 183922 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 41 III. F. 24. BUNTING C G United Kingdom Sapper 85213 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Sp. Mem. A. 1. BURCH A E United Kingdom Sapper 155246 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 32 Sp. Mem. A. COHEN E United Kingdom Pioneer 178920 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 23 Sp. Mem. B. COLLINS J United Kingdom Sapper 95654 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. F. 29. COWARD WILLIAM United Kingdom Pioneer 156692 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 29 III. E. 2A. EVANS T G United Kingdom Sapper 160177 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. F. 16. FINNIMORE W H United Kingdom Corporal 147156 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. F. 7. GRAY L C United Kingdom Lance Corporal 139725 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Sp. Mem. B. GREEN EDWARD WILLIAM United Kingdom Pioneer 214386 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 25 III. F. 13. HALL GEORGE HERBERT United Kingdom Sapper 41452 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 27 Sp. Mem. B. HANSON W United Kingdom Sapper 140416 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Sp. Mem. B. 3. HART F United Kingdom Pioneer 214503 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 36 Sp. Mem. B. HILL JOHN ROBERTSHAW United Kingdom Second Lieutenant Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 33 III. E. 22. JEBB CHARLES FREDERICK United Kingdom Corporal 106419 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 24 Sp. Mem. JONES SAMUEL United Kingdom Lance Corporal 129891 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 21 III. E. LAWES J United Kingdom Pioneer 128268 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Sp. Mem. B. 6. LEWIS CHARLES WYNDHAM United Kingdom Pioneer 129892 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. F. 23. LOATES J United Kingdom Pioneer 206611 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. F. 7. MORRIS HAYDN GWION United Kingdom Pioneer 155380 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 23 Sp. Mem. B. MORRIS THOMAS United Kingdom Sapper 154182 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 32 III. F. 21. OAKES SAMUEL United Kingdom Second Lieutenant Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 21 III. E. 21. ODDY WILLIAM VIVIAN United Kingdom Pioneer 167365 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 31 III. F. 18. PARKS JOHN HARVEY United Kingdom Pioneer 214206 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 34 III. F. 8. PIKE R W United Kingdom 2nd Corporal 167286 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. F. 1. REILLY EDWARD United Kingdom Corporal 106567 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 22 III. F. 14. RUTTER SIDNEY ROE United Kingdom Pioneer 131500 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 22 III. F. 30. RYAN JOHN United Kingdom Serjeant 1836 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 40 III. F. 10. SHAW ARCHIBALD McDONNELL United Kingdom Serjeant 112243 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 27 III. E. 28. SHURVILLE HERBERT GEORGE United Kingdom Sapper 42792 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 29 Sp. Mem. A. SLATER HAROLD SAMUEL United Kingdom Pioneer 188143 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 20 Sp. Mem. A. STAMMERS A United Kingdom Pioneer 197244 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. E. 29. WALL ALBERT WILLIAM United Kingdom Corporal 147040 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 27 III. F. 4.. WATTS GEORGE RICHARD United Kingdom Pioneer 188145 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 27 Sp. Mem. A. WEBSTER PETER United Kingdom Serjeant 147038 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 26 Sp. Mem. WEMYSS JAMES United Kingdom Sapper 177623 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 25 III. F. 25. WHEATER KENNETH RONALD MACLAREN United Kingdom Second Lieutenant Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 22 III. E. 23. WHETSTONE A United Kingdom Pioneer 192901 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. F. 28. WHITEHAND H J United Kingdom Pioneer 85544 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Sp. Mem. B. 2. WHITLEY V United Kingdom Pioneer 154890 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 III. F. 11. WHYTE DAVID United Kingdom Pioneer 188052 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Age: 36 Sp. Mem. B. WILLIAMS J R United Kingdom Pioneer 168096 Royal Engineers 06/05/1917 Sp. Mem. B. 8. WOOLF S United Kingdom Acting Bombardier 945908 Royal Field Artillery 06/05/1917 III. E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 13 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2014 Callard I do have those names, but thank you anyway. You need the war diary the details of which are in my original post. Can i ask what your interest in the incident is please? TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callard Posted 13 February , 2014 Share Posted 13 February , 2014 Callard I do have those names, but thank you anyway. You need the war diary the details of which are in my original post. Can i ask what your interest in the incident is please? TR It is because I helped transcribe a diary from 1915 belonging to a family friend. It was a pocket diary of 2nd Lt Kenneth Wheater and was difficult because the bullet that injured him in 1915 had in fact passed through the diary and each page needed to be unpicked. The contents of the diary fascinated me because it is the excited observations of a young man having a real adventure, he comments consistently about the aircraft he sees and I think was enjoying what he did. It also gives an interesting view of how content he was to "do his bit". After finishing it (I was helping my Father really, and he completed it only a few months before he passed away) I have wanted to find about what became him, because my Father often wondered about it. I have got his service records from TNA and have been (amateurishly) researching what happened up to his death. It confused me because having visited his grave last year it was obvious that the 6th May 1917 had been a black day in the RE but I thought he was in H Coy so didn't connect the events you described in this thread to him. I have found out from TNA that he was transferred to G Coy and appears to be the G Coy Officer mentioned in your post. Do you know how I can find any trench maps of the area in which he was killed as I would very much like to go and see if I can find it. Thank you very much for your interest, it is good to learn so much from someone. Hans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 13 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2014 Callard His diary sounds very interesting indeed. I can't help with the map, although there may well be someone on the forum who can. After the post above and checked my files and found the map reference for the unloading point where the incident happened. The Map you need is 57c map reference c.4.c 5.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callard Posted 14 February , 2014 Share Posted 14 February , 2014 Terry, Thank you so much for this, I really appreciate your help! Hans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachelmhudson Posted 23 February , 2014 Share Posted 23 February , 2014 Hi Terry, My grandfather, Arthur Eric Smith, was transferred to the Special Brigade RE on 16th October 1917 from South Staffs Reg (Pioneers) where he was made a Lieutenant on 15.14.17. according to notes he made. Best wishes Rachel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 23 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2014 Rachel Thanks for the information. I do have some information about your grandfather: A E Smith - 100 Dudley Port, Tipton Staffs. Engineer, BSc (London) Temp Lt South Staffs 15.4.17 T Lt RE 16.10.17 Depot Special Brigade 16.10.17 Q Special Company 15.12.17 At some stage he was attached to the Imperial War Graves Commission and was with them on 5.4.1919. Does this match anything in his notes? TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachelmhudson Posted 23 February , 2014 Share Posted 23 February , 2014 Hi Terry, Thanks for your response. . I had not heard of the Special Brigades until my mother mentioned just a few days ago that my grandfather was in a 'special gas brigade' in in WW1. To be frank, I had had no idea that GB had been involved with gas attacks and was rather shocked. I searched through my grandfather's notebook and found the brief entry I shared in my earlier message confirming that he was indeed involved in one of the Special Brigades. I then searched for more info about RE special brigades and gas in WW1 and found this forum on the internet. In response to your own question, my grandfather's notes are very brief - saying nothing about Q Special Company or Imperial War Graves Commission. The only additional information is that after joining the Special Brigade on 16.10.17 he was in France from 28.11.17 until 1919. Don't know how this fits in with the Imperial War Graves Commision. Best wishes Rachel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 24 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2014 Rachel The following documents, held the the National Archives, may be of help to you" WO 95/402 - War Diary, Q Special Company. There is a fair chance that your relative will be mentioned in it. WO 339/ 33169. This is you grandfather's personal file and may help explain when and why he was attached to the IWGC in 1919. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachelmhudson Posted 24 February , 2014 Share Posted 24 February , 2014 Brilliant! Thanks very much, Terry. I'll follow up your suggestions. Rachel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jangawler Posted 2 March , 2014 Share Posted 2 March , 2014 My father, Albert Bailey Spinks was also in Q coy, transferred from the Royal Fusiliers in 1916. He joined up in 1915 from college in Caerleon, Newport. he returned to teaching after the war and was Headmaster in primary and secondary modern schools in Cardiff. In WW2 he was in charge of a Dad's Army Company. He never talked about the war, but he did have a little booklet written by a comrade about Q Coy, which I have lent to a historian and which has never been returned. Ha anyone else heard of this little book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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