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Terry_Reeves

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Thanks Matt

There were many bulk transfers to the SB from the infantry in 1916 and his RE number is one of a block that covers that period.

TR

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And once again ... 220332 Pnr. John Robertson, a 19-year-old "works chemist" from Glasgow who enlisted in the Royal Engineers Dec. 3, 1915. He served in the Special Brigade with "A" and "B" (Reserve) Coys., "P" Special Coy., and the Special Factory Section.

I do have a question on a somewhat confusing use of titles. At one point, Pnr. Robertson is transferred from "Special Brigade Depot" to "Depot Special Brigade." From what I can figure, the former was in England and the latter based in France?

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Matt

The first was near Plymouth and was originally formed for men being posted to the newly formed Porton Down Company on Salisbury Plain. It eventually became the Reserve Depot and catered for Expeditionary Force men arriving from, or departing to, the BEF. The second was the SB Depot at Helfaut in France, some 4 miles south of St Omer. This catered for all SB men arriving for the BEF. The depot HQ was located in the mairie and the adjacent schoolhouse which still stand. The troops were billeted in Helfaut and the surrounding villages.

TR

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear all.

Bit of a long shot but I was wondering if any members had information on E H Brown who was awarded the MM while serving with L Company. He was originally with the Devonshire Regiment (number 15277) but moved to the RE and had the number 112226 and his MM was gazetted in October 1918.

The LG states he was from Tooting, but any other information would be fantastic.

Thanks in advance.

Johnnie.

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Jonnie

There is no citation for your man unfortunately. His number would suggest that he joined the SB in late 1915 or early 1916. It may be useful to look at the unit war diary at TNA in WO 95/334 to see what was going on around that period.

TR

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Many thanks for the information. I will have to dig the War Diary out on my next visit to the PRO as I'm keen to find out more. I also still have to dig further into the double MID chap I was researching a while back.

Do you, by any chance, have a break down of awards presented to the Special Companies?

Johnnie

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Johnnie

No, I don't have a breakdown I 'm afraid. CH Foulkes, the founder of e SB , gives a total of 557 decorations of which 494, including one VC, were immediate awards, in his book Gas! The Story of the Special Brigade.

TR

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest martin may

Hi Terry.

I tried to post this a while ago but suspect I did so in the wrong way so I am repeating this information.

I have been searching WW1 records of Pnr. Wilson May Reg. No. 154926 my father.

He enlisted at Chatham on 21 March 1916. His trade/occupation is given as Chemist (prior to enlisting he had been a teacher in Wolverhampton). He survived the war but was gassed at St Quentin on 21st March 1918. He apparently suffered “Shell gas poisoning”. He was then transferred to the Central Military Hospital in Winchester on 26.3.18 until 12.8.18 and then to the Seale Hayne hospital in Devon from 12.8.18 until 25.3.19. He was discharged from the army on 25 Jan 1919. After this he was admitted to Keble College Oxford on a Kitchener scholarship where he obtained an MA degree,subsequently becoming Headmaster of the Gosport Central School. He died at age 97 in 1989.

He rarely talked about the war but I do know that he was present at the Somme and at Arras. I do not know which company he was with and would be interested if anyone has this information.

In Major General C H Foulkes book.”Gas” The Story of the Special Brigade there is a photograph taken by Maj. Salt of some of the special brigade training in the use of revolvers. This photograph is opposite page 57. I believe that the soldier third from the left and not wearing a hat is my father and would be very interested if this could be confirmed. Any other photographs or information relevant to my father and his then companions would also be of interest

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Martin

I can't help very much with this I am afraid. The quarry being used for Captain Salt's photograph is still there, at the bottom of the hill leading to the SB's French Depot at Helfaut and is now a French army range. I think your best bet is to check the Wolverhampton newspapers and the schools he taught at, they often carried information about local men and the school magazines on obituary.

TR

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Hi Terry,

My Grandfather Reginald John Beard b 18 May 1899 was in Number 1 Special Mortar Company from Mar/Apr 1918 to the end of hostilities. I have a photo taken in France in late 1918 with his Stokes mortar team and the mortar itself- can't uplaod as say file too large (any suggestions?).

His service number was 335151. Anecdotes are not that many, but I do remeber him telling me about going out into no-mans land under cover of darkness to prepare to lay down gas (chlorine, phosgene and mustard) the next morning in advance of the infantry going over the top. Once he fell in a shall hole, knocked himself out and was not found till thre next day AFTER the ingfantry attacked- this was his only 'war wound' - thankfully.

He talked of the futility of it all, how in Aril they were making only yards progress but by No they were making many hundreds of yards at a time. He was not demobbed till May 1919- was put in with a group of otjher supervising germ POW's rebuilding roads etc. He talked of food shortages at this time being worse than in the war. The French farmers not being best pleased when they scrounged for food. Once a group of soldiers took a machine gun (not sure which type) to a local lake to shoot ducks to supplement their food, they alsoi accidentally shot two Chinese labour corps members, buroed on the side of the road- no questions asked... I was applaled and asked why no one did anything- his answer was matter of fact - ' you are judging our actions by todays rules and morality, I ahd spent months seeing people killed in all manner of ways, what was two more'. I should add my grandfather said while he know what had happened he was not a part of it. A kinder more gentle man you could not meet, guess it shows when push comes to shove we are all capable of things we cannot imagine.

Hetalked of an inter division football tournament in Aug 1918, the team he played in won, in no small way due to their centre forward - Harry Johnson- later Capt of Sheffiled Utd, played for England and scored masses of goals. Harry joined the same day as my grandfather (service number 335150). Harry was demobbed 19 Nov 1918 - thanks to strings pulled by Sheffield Utd!

That is about all I can thinkl of for now. Would be very curious to know of anything you might be able to tell me of NUmber 1 Special Mortar Company between Apr and NOv 1918. I should add on the 11th NOv my grandfather was in Paris on leave, got very very drunk on a mix if While wine and Benedictine- he jokingly said was the greatest danger he was in all war- hanging off the back of a lorry going doen the Champs Elysee!

Cheers

Tony

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've just had an unexpected find; I've been looking through some old photos and I came across an envelope which contains the Christmas Programme for 188 Company in 1915. I also found my Grandfather's Certificate of Attestation.

Xmas11915.jpg?t=1379394685

Xmas21915.jpg?t=1379394704

Xmas31915.jpg?t=1379394711

Xmas41915.jpg

JSHAttested.jpg?t=1379394805

I've got just about every possible memento of my Grandfather's career; odd, in a sense, as he didn't talk about it.

I'm really uncertain, what to do with it all. It 'means' something to me, as I knew him well; but it might be a pile of old junk to my children/grandchildren. I might try displaying it all in a case.

I'm amazed to find the 'Attested' slip of paper; it is so small, that it might have easily been damaged or thrown away.

The Concert Programme is a great find - just look at the cover. I even recognise quite a few of the songs . . . . . . . perhaps, Terry might like to recreate these on a special Christmas CD ? :)

I think that this really will be the last of my 'finds' relating to my Grandfather. I hope that you find it interesting. It would be brilliant, if someone happened to recognise the name of someone whom they are researching.

Terry, on another note, my Father tells me, that my Grandfather had a close mate who was also in The Special Brigade, his name was 'Bill' Fishwick; do you have anything at all on him ?

Regards,

Andy

Edited by Andy Heaton
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You may have come across this man before, but you may find more names now at the IWM for example Private Papers of S J Hounsom

Content description

3 volumes of extracts cut out from his original ms letters to his wife during his service initially with the Chemical Section of M Company Royal Engineers at the RE Depot at Chatham (March - April 1916) and as a pioneer with No. 3 Company, 5th (Special Reserve) Battalion, Special (Gas) Brigade RE on the Western Front (April 1916 - January 1919) describing daily life in the trenches and including accounts of trench foot and lice, his work as a cook and as a section quartermaster, his organisation of and participation in concert parties and his encounters with American troops; he also expresses his concerns over Zeppelin attacks and food shortages at home. The letters record the rapid Allied retreat in April 1918 following the German offensive, the onset of the Spanish influenza epidemic (June 1918), an account of a ride in a 'whippet' tank (July 1918), the rapid movement forward of the Allied line (August - October 1918) and his exploration of the abandoned lines while also describing his feelings on hearing of the Armistice. Included within the volumes are press cuttings, postcards, photographs and concert programmes, while place names have been added throughout the letters from a contemporary diary where they had originally been omitted or obliterated by the censor, though the writer has deleted all personal details from the letters.

History note

Cataloguer AAM

Catalogue date 2000-04-11

Mike

Edit Also Special Brigade News Letter

Edit again 07:12 Much more here Click

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You may have come across this man before, but you may find more names now at the IWM for example Private Papers of S J Hounsom

Content description

3 volumes of extracts cut out from his original ms letters to his wife during his service initially with the Chemical Section of M Company Royal Engineers at the RE Depot at Chatham (March - April 1916) and as a pioneer with No. 3 Company, 5th (Special Reserve) Battalion, Special (Gas) Brigade RE on the Western Front (April 1916 - January 1919) describing daily life in the trenches and including accounts of trench foot and lice, his work as a cook and as a section quartermaster, his organisation of and participation in concert parties and his encounters with American troops; he also expresses his concerns over Zeppelin attacks and food shortages at home. The letters record the rapid Allied retreat in April 1918 following the German offensive, the onset of the Spanish influenza epidemic (June 1918), an account of a ride in a 'whippet' tank (July 1918), the rapid movement forward of the Allied line (August - October 1918) and his exploration of the abandoned lines while also describing his feelings on hearing of the Armistice. Included within the volumes are press cuttings, postcards, photographs and concert programmes, while place names have been added throughout the letters from a contemporary diary where they had originally been omitted or obliterated by the censor, though the writer has deleted all personal details from the letters.

History note

Cataloguer AAM

Catalogue date 2000-04-11

Mike

Edit Also Special Brigade News Letter

Edit again 07:12 Much more here Click

Many thanks indeed for the links . . . . . . . but I can't them to work. :(

I've created a username & password and can get onto the IWM website, but when I click on the links that you've given me, I just get an IWM Logo - see below .

placeholder_mid.png

I'd greatly appreciate it, if I could be told how to see the Special Brigade Newsletters.

Regards,

Andy

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  • 1 month later...

Terry,

Just started researching the history of my grandfather's brother:

Evan William Evans, 2nd Corporal 185934, ‘N’ Special Company, The Royal Engineers. Killed in action in the Ypres Salient 17th November 1917.

He was 24. I know he enlisted in Montgomery, but don't know when - could you tell me?

Buried in Steenkerke Belgian Military Cemetery ( Went there last week).

A relative of H Watson who was buried next to him tell me they were both awarded the Belgian Croix de Guerre for (unspecified) action at Dixmude in September 1917.

I'd also like to know whether the family story that he was killed by a sniper just as they were celebrating winning a battle is true, and can we find out what they did to be awarded the croix de guerre.

Also, would he be in the photo Martin Eager posted of Ward Eager, also of N company?

He was a farmer's son from Hafod Oer, Dolgellau in Gwynedd, had studied agriculture ( or science of some kind) at Aberystwyth Uni ( the first of the family to receive a more than basic education - they say he was brilliant), and was a very good footballer. Probably a pretty good singer too.

We know very little about him because his father never wanted to talk about him or the younger brother who died two months earlier. If any paperwork at all has survived, I haven't found it yet.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tony

Thanks for the information. You need the Company war diary which can bee seen at the National Archives, Kew. The document reference is WO 95/4897

TR

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Andy

Thanks for posting the programme. You can only view them at the IWM. They have been in storage for the last few years and have only been released for public viewing fairly recently, not that there is anything contentious in them.

TR

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Bethan

Much of the information you require is not available I am afraid as his service record does not appear to have survived. There are no citations for C de G's unless something has been mentioned in the company war diary which is held at the National Archives in WO 95/402. This will also cover the date of his death.

TR

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Guest warhistorian

Terry

I just joined the group so I could add to this thread. I have been researching my family tree for a while, and have recently discovered a cousin of my Grandmother, who was killed in Wieltje.

Pioneer Amos Courts, service number 170795. Listed as 'A' spec.coy, R.E.

He died of wounds Aug 4th 1917, at Mendinghem CCS and is buried alongside Lt-Col Bertram Best-Dunkley VC, 2/5th Lancashire Fusiliers, at Mendingham Military Cemetery. (so I have been led to believe) Best-Dunkley also died at Mendinghem, a day later and was awarded his VC a few weeks later, post-humously. The Gazette records the medal being presented to his widow, and pinned to the dress frock of his newborn baby son, who was born mid-July and he never got chance to see.

Amos was from Foleshill, Warwickshire and as far as I can tell, joined up at the beginning of the war, after a hasty marriage to his girlfriend, Sarah. I gather he never saw her again. There were no children. Which regiment he joined up in, originally, I have no records.

From memoirs I have read regarding Best-Dunkley (I was hoping to see if Amos was mentioned anywhere) the battle at Wieltje was particularly bad for casualties and there was a lot of gas used in the weeks preceding. The attack that they apparently took part in was dated 31 July - 02 Aug, 1917.

Finally, I am currently investigating possibilities that both Amos and Best-Dunkley were treated by Capt Noel Chavasse, VC and bar, as he was treating patients in a CCS in Wieltje when he was injured, this battle is the one for which he was awarded the bar to his VC. Chavasse died on the same day as Amos.

If you have any information which can further my search, or you can confirm/deny any of the above information, I would be really grateful.

Paula

P.S. Some time ago you had a poster from overseas (Canada?) called Sylvia, researching her relative, I think he was called William Sargeant, who was also RE. She stated that he was named on the memorial in Pickworth, Rutland. I happen to live two miles away from Pickworth, and wondered if it would be appropraiate to pop over there and take a quick piccie to post? What do you think?

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Paula

Your best bet is A Company's war diary at the National Archives which can be found in WO 95/241. This gives the day to day doings of the unit. There is an chance of Pioneer Courts being mentioned, but it is a bit of a long shot. Can I ask how you know he died of wounds? Soldiers Died on the Great War shows he was killed in action and not DoW although could be wrong. His number suggests that he enlisted around June 1916 and his Medal Index Card shows he did not enter a theatre of war until at least 1916.

I don't think you will have much luck finding out who treated him at the CCS, as these sort of details were not normally kept for men who died.

With regard to Sylvia, why not give it a go,I am sure she would be delighted.

TR

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Terry

My grandfather Pioneer George Theodore French 220277, joined RE Special Brigade 4 coy on 23/1/1917. Before the war he was an analytical chemist. He had volunteered 12/11/14 at 56, Davies St London for 1/9th Bat Queen Victoria's Rifles. Arriving in France 14/2/15, he served with QVR as Rifleman, until 9/9/16 when he was wounded in the face, in the area of Leuse Wood during the battle of the Somme. He was hosptalised back to England. Transfered to RE Sp Bgd, he was sent back to France 13/3/17, but was wounded again 18/6/17. Hospitalised back to UK he was back in France with the Special Brigade from 22/6/1918. He survived the war (to the ripe old age of 92!) but never spoke of what occurred to him. All that I know has come from recent internet searches and Keesons, History and records of the QVR. His medals refer to his early service as 3602 Rifleman GT French 1/9 London Reg. If you could help me out with filling in some of the gaps (or a push in the right direction) I would be very grateful.

Nic

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Nic

His service record has survived and is available at the National Archives and on-line through Ancestry. He served with 4 Special Mortar Company which was equipped with the 4 inch Stokes mortar and fired smoke, chemical and thermite ammunition. The unit has a war diary at the National Archives in WO95/333 which will give you the day to day doings of the unit from March 1917. You may also want to check the war diary of 9 QVR for the day-today activities of that unit.

If I can help further please let me know.

TR

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I recently came across this forum and joined it so that I can post what may be of some use to others. Some days ago I began examining a long ignored diary belonging to my Scottish great uncle, George Buchanan Coubrough. It turns out he was a pioneer in the Royal Engineers, 3rd Section, A Coy., and the diary makes clear that he was handling gas cylinders. The entries run from August 1917, when he arrived at Helfaut, to June 1918, when he was moved to No. 13 C.C.S. after suffering from a gas attack at Noeux les Mines in early May. If there is any information about his wartime service that I can go to, I would appreciate finding out. Also, if it is of any value to readers of this thread, I can post parts of the diary (not all pages are completely legible). I can also post his itinerary from August 1917 to May 1918 because he devotes a couple of pages at the end of the diary to listing all the places he has been sent to, and the exact dates he has been there.

Ian Pooley

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Hi Ian, there appears to be nearly 40 pages of his service history available on the Ancestry website Click

Your diary sounds very interesting, and I'm sure many here would love to see it. :thumbsup:

Mike

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Ian

The unit war diaries, available at the National Archives, will give you the day to day detail of what "A" Company was up to. The references are:

WO 142/312 - No 1 Battalion Special Brigade. "A" Company's activities for 1916 are covered in this document

WO 95/241 - This covers "A" company from March 1917 to 1919.

I would be interested to see his diary.

Out of interest , the Special Brigade Depot HQ building at Helfaut was located in the mairie and the adjoining schoolhouse both of which still stand.

TR

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Hi Mike and Terry

Thanks for the Ancestry tip, Mike, and thanks Terry for the National Archives source.

What would be the best way of making parts of the diary available? I'd like to hold back parts that cover personal correspondence with the rest of the family, but there are obviously parts that are of general interest, and there are also parts that touch on technical matters that I need help making sense of. Since Ive already digitized a lot of it, it should be easy to post some of the digitized bit.

Ian Pooley

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