Royal Engineers Special Brigade

[JillT57]

Hi Terry, [had originally addressed this in error to Stephen who tells me you are the expert on this.]

I have just come across an individual in my family tree[ somewhat distant relative] about whom I know nothing but whom I believe may have served in the Special Brigade, about which I also currently know little or nothing.

His name was Eric Stanley Sibbald, number 106279 and he was a Corporal in the Special Brigade of the 3rd Battalion of the Royal Corps of Engineers. Born in 1894 he enlisted at Chatham and first arrived in France on 26th July 1915. He was killed in action on 11th July 1916 [the information from Ancestry suggests it was 1918 but I am fairly certain this is incorrect.] He is buried at Vlamerlinghe Military Cemetary in Belgium.

I don't know if he is one of the individuals you're looking for but thought I would provide the information 'in case'. I'd really appreciate any information you may have about this unit and what they did.

Jill

[rugbyremembers]

Terry,

My apologies. Unlike my usual 'first principles' approach on GWF, I arrived at this thread from a google search, and had not done the backreading. Thanks for the WO refs. Brearley clearly a 'boffin' and chemist (assume his BSc in Chemistry).

Sad to report that his parents also lost their other son, Norman, also from KES school in Mesopotamia 14 months earlier.

Jill, seems from this thread that Terry is the genuine guru on this subject; my enquiry was on one individual as part of a research project into King Edward's School B'ham boys who died.

Stephen

[JillT57]

Terry,

My apologies. Unlike my usual 'first principles' approach on GWF, I arrived at this thread from a google search, and had not done the backreading. Thanks for the WO refs. Brearley clearly a 'boffin' and chemist (assume his BSc in Chemistry).

Sad to report that his parents also lost their other son, Norman, also from KES school in Mesopotamia 14 months earlier.

Jill, seems from this thread that Terry is the genuine guru on this subject; my enquiry was on one individual as part of a research project into King Edward's School B'ham boys who died.

Stephen

Thanks for putting me right, Stephen. I hadn't read through the topic, which I need to do thoroughly when I get a minute! I realise now that Terry is the expert on this.

[Terry_Reeves]

Stephen and Jill

Happy New Year.

Jill, 3rd Battalion War Diary is at the National Archives in WO95/121.He would have been serving in J, K, L or M Company. His number indicates that he was one of the original Corporals who took part in the first British gas attack at Loos in September, 1915. He would have ben in either 186, 187,188 or 189 companies. There are no diaries for these units. They later formed the the nucleus of the battalions of the Special Brigade when it formed in 1916.

For both of you I would recommend you get hold a a copy of Donald Richter's Chemical Soldiers which gives a good insight into the SB.

TR

[rugbyremembers]

Terry,

Many thanks for the direction and recommendation. This is an area I have not explored before, so new and interesting.

Happy new Year

Stephen

[JillT57]

Terry,

Many thanks for pointing me in the right direction and for the book recommendation. Happy New Year to you.

I have now ordered the book and will see what I can find at TNA.

I have previously researched family members who fought in the Great War but this is a particular area I have not explored before and know nothing at all about. I look forward to finding out more when my book arrives.

Thanks again for your help.

Jill

[aradgick]

Terry,

I have come across Lieut. Vernon Jesse Fleet, attached 3rd Special Company, from RFA. He is buried in Wokingham St Sebastians Churchyard, Berkshire. This means he died at the nearby Pinewood Hospital, which treated, in the main, TB cases. He does not appear to have had a scientific background, being listed as a pianist, aged 27, in the 1911 census.

Can you tell me anything about the 3rd Special Company as there I cannot find a diary for them at TNA.

Andrewr

[Terry_Reeves]

Andrew

Quite a number of officers and the majority of the men for that matter, had no scientific background. Lt Fleet served with No 3 Special Mortar Company, part of 5th Battalion. They were equipped with the 4 inch Stokes Mortar, and many RFA officers were attached to 5th Battalion for obvious reasons. Here are some details for him:

Ranks City of London Yeomanry

T2Lt RFA 11.10.15

T Lt RFA 1.17.17

to Special Brigade 1.2.16 - No 3 Company

wounded 16.7.17

returned to England (gassed) 26.7.17

A TB hospital would have been the right place for him as a specialist lung hospital

No 3 Company's war diary can be found under WO95/332

If I can help further, let me know.

TR

[aradgick]

Thanks Terry - that's most helpful

Andrewr

[John_Hartley]

IWM holds a collection of letters sent by a S J Hounsom to his wife. The Museum identifies him as serving with 3 Company, 5th Battalion, Special Gas Brigade, going overseas in May 1916.

It's an uncommon name so I am reasonably confident that the 1911 census records him as Sydney John Hounsom, although I don't seem to be able to find a medal index card for him. A teacher by profession, he had family connections with the Leaf halltheatre in Eastbourne - perhaps not surprising then that he was heavily involved with the 3 Company concert parties, acting as the stage manager.

Any other information on him gratefully received.

[Terry_Reeves]

John there is a MIC for a 108926 Pioneer Sidney J Hounson RE (note N instead of M). Overseas after 1915.

TR

[Guest Thackers]

My Grandfather F.B,Watkis was a corporal in the 3rd Reserve Bn Suffolks, when he was transfered to the RE in the Summer of 1915, arriving in France on 31 Aug 15. His RE number was 113030, which I understand was an early Special Company number. i have no other information except that on his medal card. He was wounded at some time and spent time in hospital in Britain and was transfered to the Z reserve on 21 Mar 19.

I would be interested to know whether his company can be identified together with any other information or source of information which might fill in the picture.

[Terry_Reeves]

The only thing that can be taken from this , is that he almost certainly took part in the gas attack at Loos. Unfortunately there is no way of identifying his company from the information given.

TR

[Guest Thackers]

Thanks Terry, That is helpful and gives me a start on a new line of enquiry.

[amcallaghan]

Hi,

I believe my grandfather, George Alfred Cornish (no. 109971) was in No. 4 Special Company, Special Brigade. My grandfather died in the late 1960s when I was a child & talked very little about his WW1 experiences to his family. I'm lucky that his service record survives and is on Ancestry - to be honest I'm finding it very difficult to understand it, but I believe it tells me he joined up as a sapper in Sept 1915 in the "Inland Water Transport Corp" & was promoted to Lance Corporal in 1916. I know he went to France as part of the BEF - but I don't know what his role was or what battles he was involved in. In early 1918 he appears to be transferred to No. 4 Special Company, and there are references to "Devenport" and "Rickboro"(?). Incidentally my grandfather's birth year appears in his service records as 1894, he was actually born in 1896 - I'm not sure why this was as he would have been old enough to join up anyway? The record is definitely his - the address of his next of kin was in our family for many years.

I'd love to understand what my grandfather did in the war - I remember him as a kind, but strong & practical man. I know he joined up with his best friend, Fred Gray - Fred asked him if anything happened to him, would he "look after Ellen" (his girlfriend). Fred was killed & my grandfather did indeed look after Ellen - she became my grandmother & they were happily married for over 40 years.

Any help, or guidance on where to look further to better understand my grandfather's war would be much appreciated.

Many thanks ... Ann

[Guest afchandler]

Hello. I have just managed to get hold of a taped interview of my great-grandfather from 1976. He was Frank Ewart Chandler. In the interview he talks about his life and recalls his experiences in WW1 from when he joined the Manchester Pals to being sent a newly established "Special Company" around the time of the Battle of Loos, until he was wounded on the first day of the German offensive in March 1918. This is the only occasion the family is aware of when he spoke at all about his experiences in the War. He talks about using Livens projectors so I'm guessing I have found the right unit with this thread. Do you have any record of him, because I can not find any sign at all of his military record? He was awarded a Military Cross in 1917, which says he was a 2nd Lt., RE. I'll be happy to share what he said in the interview assuming I am in the right place!

Thanks for any help or guidance.

Andrew

[Guest afchandler]

A bit more information about Frank Ewart Chandler, in case it helps.

He was born in Manchester on 10 September 1893. He worked as a pupil teacher before enrolling at what I think was then called the Manchester Municipal School of Technology (now part of Manchester University) to study a combined course involving a teaching diploma and mathematics and applied science. He had completed two years of that course when he enlisted in 1914 and joined the 2^nd Battalion of the Manchester Pals. He became the Sergeant-Major of A Company.

In 1915, after receiving special training “on raids and counter-raids” he was sent to France in advance of the rest of his Battalion as part of a “Special Company”. He seems to have arrived around the time of the Battle of Loos. Frustratingly he does not give further details about the specific company, other than noting that it later became part of a Special Brigade. I think his regimental number with the Royal Engineers was 113437, but there were various people with very similar names (which are not written in full on the Medal Rolls index Cards). It could also be 53143.

He was awarded a Military Cross as listed in the London Gazette on 17 September 1917: “T./2nd Lt. Frank Ewart Chandler, R.E. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. Whilst engaged upon special work behind our front line, circumstances led him to suspect that a hostile raid was approaching, whereupon he manned the parapet and supplied his men with bombs. The raid followed at once, and was repulsed owing to his remarkable foresight and skilful dispositions, and as soon as all was clear again he took his section back and continued work. He has consistently done excellent work and set a splendid example of steady courage.”

He was wounded on 21 March 1918, the first day of the German offensive.

He subsequently returned to teaching and ultimately became Secretary of Education for Worcester. He was awarded an OBE for his civil defence work in WW2.

He died in Leeds on 11 February 1985

[Terry_Reeves]

Ann

The Inland Water Transport was responsible for the movement of barges etc on the canals of France and Belgium. They also operated a cross channel barge and ferry service from 1917. He may have worked on one of these craft or perhaps in one of the many workshops which maintained and built vessels. It is not possible to trace his exact unit within the IWT I'm afraid. Later in the war a new prey was built at Richborough in Kent and the depot was transferred there. The cross channel ferry and barge service operated from their to France.

His service record suggests that he was employed onshore in a workshop of some sort as it is marked Mechanical and Shipyard Formation. His trade of carpenter would support that. His record shows that he entered hospital twice and he was sent home in 1918 suffering from acute rheumatism and was sent to the Thetford Convalescent Depot in Norfolk. Devenport (Plymouth) was the location of the Special Brigades UK Depot, which was responsible for sending reinforcements to the BEF and receiving returning men.

4 Company was part of 5th battalion, Special Brigade. If you look through the thread you will find information about them. Donald Richter's book Chemical Soldiers gives a good account of the Special Brigade's work.

If I can help further, please let me know.

TR

[Terry_Reeves]

Andrew

Thank you for the information. The following may be of interest to you:

Served in the ranks 17th Bn Manchester Regiment and Special Brigade

T 2Lt RE 18.5.16

T Lt RE 15.11.17

Special Brigade 23.9.15 - later serving with A Coy

Wounded 25.6.16

rejoined SB 4.7.16

wounded 21.3.18

to England 26.3.18.

I would be interested to see the transcript of the interview. Please let me know if can help further.

TR

[Robsharp1977]

Good evening Terry, I have recently become intrested in my family involvement in the great war - I have found that i have three relatives who lost their life. One of these being in "Z" special company, Royal engineers.

His name was Sam Latham (Samuel), number 134869. Died of wounds on 25/07/1918 aged 32. Buried in Vignacourt British cemetery, France.

Please can you let me know if you have any idea about his company/ what they did/ where they were etc as i can find precious little

I have found his medal card at the national archives but there is very little on it and i dont know how to read it

I am a newbie to this forum so any help would be appreciated.

Many many thanks,

Rob.

[Terry_Reeves]

Rob

Z Company was formed in 1916 and was originally called "Special Sections". It was renamed Z Company on 3rd September, 1916. The unit was originally responsible for flame weapons such as the flamenwerfer, a large static projector, and some semi portable projectors. Effectively all these turned out to be failures and the large flammewerfer was last fired in October 1917, but flame weapons effectively been abandoned by the end of 1916. The company then turned its attention to the Livens projector after WH Livens the OC of the company. This was crude, but effective mortar. that dispensed gas and oil bombs which ignited on or near the target. Despite the basic nature of the device, it proved to be a very efficient weapon in terms of cost effectiveness and was much feared by the Germans.

The company has a war diary at the National Archives in WO95/122 which covers the period of Samuels death. From his number, it appears he enlisted in 1916 and his medal index card indicates that he did not serve on a theatre of was before that date. His rank is given as sapper, which indicates a skilled tradesman and it is unusual to find such a man in the Brigade. He may have served in another RE unit prior to this but I can find no evidence of it. With regard to his death, there were three projector operations on the 24th September and one on the 25th. Vignacourt was served by 20th and 61st Casualty Clearing Stations and I suspect that he died in one of these units on the 25th. The projector operation took place at 1 am against 246 Reserve Infantry Regiment and these type of shoots often attracted retaliatory artillery fire. The diary may fill in some of the gaps.

For further reading see Chemical Soldiers by Donald Richter and Gas - The Story of the Special Brigade By CH Foulkes.

If I can help further please let me know.

TR

[Robsharp1977]

Hi Terry that's fantastic information! Very many thanks for helping me. I know he lived at 61 Leyland road in Burnley Lancs I have one picture of him from the Burnley express from 10/08/1918. Whilst I was in Belgium last week the tour guide informed me that men in special companies were at particular risk from gas shells leaking or incoming shells specifically targeting such units. How do I find the war diary at the national archives? I have got his medal card but can see not much on it - plus I don't really know how to read it The terrible irony of his work is that his brother private William Latham from the kings Liverpool regiment died on 24/06/1919 of wounds. He was gassed twice but I don't know if it was the gas that sadly killed him. Hopefully you might be able to find Sams photo on the Burnley express. Thankyou again

[amcallaghan]

Terry - many thanks for your reply, it's really helpful :-) I have a couple of photographs of my grandfather taken during WW1 with some of his colleagues (I don't have their names, the date or location) - do you know if there is anywhere to post these in case anyone is interested?

Thanks ... Ann

[Terry_Reeves]

Ann

Why not upload them here on this thread.

TR

[amcallaghan]

Hi - this photo shows my grandfather (George Alfred Cornish) and some of his colleagues - George is in the back row, 4th from the left (with the stiffening removed from his cap!). The photo must have been taken sometime between 1915-1918, but I'm unsure of when.

Best wishes ... Ann